New clothing still looks like stiff tubes
cherpenbeck
Posts: 1,411
in The Commons
Seriously, some items of new clothing still look like wrinkle-free stiff paper tubes. We had better clothing for M4 and V4 already. I'm definitely dissappointed about some of the newer clothing items. Won't point out single ones, as this seems to be an overall problem. Like the less natural looking skin of some Genesis characters. I personally see a problem when even some clothing for M3 or V3 looks better on the new characters than clothing made especially for them.
So at the moment I'm mostly buying older stuff.
This discussion has been closed.
Daz 3D is part of 
Connect
DAZ Productions, Inc.
224 S 200 W, Suite #250
Salt Lake City, UT 84101
Licensing Agreement | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | EULA
© 2024 Daz Productions Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Comments
you have to point out some or its just a worthless opinion without proof
or i could just say the opposite or no you are not right
Last time I did point something out it was taken personal by someone. Well, seems there is no way to get it right. Just have a look at one of the very new male PC items.
I think Dforce is going to do for clothing what Iray did for renders ;)
Force people into buying new hardware?
Heh.. but no, no one is forcing anyone to do anything. However, if you want to leverage the new technology on offer, sure, newer hardware helps.
Works fine on my 8-yr old computer. :)
So are you saying that due to dforce we can expect to see the continuation of poorly made products for the same price because we have the ability to make them look better ourselves, saving the vendors the time and effort of increasing their abilities.
I admit, I have noticed a lack of detail in many new clothing items, but this varies by vendor.
I do take note of those that consistantly don't meet my expectations, and steer clear of them.
Most start out this way, and improve over time...
JD
Molded in wrinkles look like doggy excrement when you apply a dForce modifier and run a simulation...
with Dforce I actually expect PA’s to be able to add HD wrinkles if needed using the technology now provided since we cannot (well we can on a subdivided mesh but not to save as a morph)
I think a mixture of undraped unsimulated dforce ready and optional HD morphs for those not using dforce would be a reasonable compromise as can be dialed in or out if needed.
I agree. The current male releases are amateurish. We have so little male clothing to begin with. When something looks doughy or painted on people don’t buy it and it contributes to the whole men’s stuff doesn’t sell.
I couldn't have said this any better! There are such few male releases that have come out in the past months, and the ones that do are often signifacantly less intricate or interesting than the female counterparts (although, this is subjective). I personally prefer to buy male items (as those are what I mostly use), but do also buy female items that look beautiful (some are just too stunning to pass up). But if the female items were done with as little detail as many of the male counterparts - I would never even give ithema second glance. That being said, there have been some amazing male releases over the past 5-6 months, just 10000x less than for females, in my opinion.
Why the insistence on quality flaws being the reason for male content not selling, when PAs have repeatedly said that they don't sell as many male items as they do female? I honestly think it's going to take some folks that think quality is the only problem becoming PAs themselves to see how far off that claim is.
It's always seemed to be to be a sort of self fullfilling prophecy to me: Male stuff doesn't sell well so people don't make it as much, but what is made is not on par with the female stufff so people don't buy it, hence male stuff doesn't sell well. It's a vicious cycle.¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I don't think the point was that quality is the only problem; obviously it must be true that male items sell less than female items regardless of quality - but I think what Serene was saying, is that this just feeds to it. If male items are already selling less, and then the few male releases also have more amateurish features / are less intricate - it creates even lower sales. And with so few, it would seem more intracacy could go into that long awaited release. Just my thought... I know personally, everyday I check in hopes that there will be a new male release to buy... and pretty much everyday, that doesn't happen.
Agreed. I know how everyone is fascinated with zbrush, but honestly, some of the wrinkles/folds in clothing I've seen look dreadful, some of the worst being mens pants/shorts, and a few fantasy outfits. And then the painted on flat texture makes it look worse.
Yeah, it's hard to say it's a PA across the board thing, cause then it would beg to ask where is the equivalent MALE VERSION and then you can compare the two.
So then a PA makes Male and female version of an item and then we'd have a better set of just apples and apples to compare.
Bring that PA forward.
Cause I see several suits and clothing items for females that users are putting on men.
That says, in that case, they/we would have bought the male version.
------------------------
Now, if the case is Women like Rendering Women and Men LOOOOVVVEEEEE to render sexy women, then why
- all the fight poses- with women....? A woman getting decked- is that a sexy render? Is that pinup? I could see wrestling and jello being a thing.
- I'm in a unique position, where I have female combatants in my stories, but I don't see the NEED for women to be the subject of 90% of all MMA and Boxing/Kick boxing/Spear/Arrow/Sword/Gun sets....
There are women duking it out right now in the store, but not even a male version.
So who's rendering all these women fights that that's the big ticket? At least go both sexes. But I digress.
--------------
So I am buying the female version, but what I want is the Male version and I'll apply it to the female characters as opposed to the vice versa that I'm forced to do now- which adds to a mis-leading statistic.
Same for clothes.
We still can't figure out how to get Genesis 2 shoes on a gen 3 character, etc...
Or a vendor sells heels and flats or a WARRIOR, fighting pose set comes with Heels and Flats....(lol)
---------------
I would love to know a true number on what's doing what.
Maybe the content is going to some unknoiwn place that we never see.
Yesssss, this is exactly my situation.
In my case, 99% of the time, I want a male item. Since there doesn't appear to be anything to buy, I just buy the female item. So, my purchase desires go in the order:
1. A male item that is appealing
2. A female item that I can use on a male (ie. one that would fit well, doesn't have high heels, isn't a dress etc)
3. A female item that can really only, logically, be used on a female - that I think maybe one day I will use
4. A male item that just isn't up to par - I don't even consider it, even though my priority is to buy male items
I have soooo many female items that I fit to males, probably even more than male-specific items. If there is an offer to buy some new releases to get another thing discounted - I'm almost always buying female items for this exact reason - cause the male counterparts aren't there or just aren't nearly up to the comparison.
I never said its the only problem.
Because to me it is a contributing factor in my own purchases. sure men's content doesn't sell as well. Thats obvious based on the gallery art alone, however there are some nicely done outfits and textures in the store by pa's who can design men's clothing. And I use those sets frequently.
I can also say I own most of the genesis 3 male and genesis 8 male outfits that don't look distorted in the promo art. So I do buy all or most men's content.
Serene, would you mind recommeding some of your favorite PAs that design some great outfits/textures for men? I would love to hear your thoughts / see if there is some important stuff I am missing.
Sure, and I cover some of them in my thread in the Art Studio. I think you cant go wrong with Luthbel https://www.daz3d.com/luthbel and https://www.daz3d.com/luthbellina they are great. I also think Shana's soulmate has been doing some nice texturing for Michael 8 clothing lately. https://www.daz3d.com/shanassoulmate
There are others, but I must go, I'm heading off for a surgery.
Thanks! I'll check those out, and I've also bookmarked your thread :)
Death to baked in wrinkles!!!
Lack of baked in wrinkles does not imply lesser quality when people have cloth sims, whether the sim is Poser, VWD, or DForce.
If anticipating a cloth sim which adapts to any bend angle and any degree, it is not correct to bake in wrinkles for a y-axis only bend of 90 degrees, or any other axis bend of a fixed number of degrees. I anticipate more items to be made that adapt to DForce, which not only applies to wrinkles, but also to how buttons and pockets are modeled, and many other features.
Sending positive Karma vibes your way. Hope everything turns out for the best.
But I often like baked wrinkles! :)
Cloth sims are simply not able to mimic the fine wrinkle detail you'd find in some of the high quality clothing, like this: https://www.daz3d.com/ma-1-flight-jacket-for-genesis-3-female-s
Just look at the micro winrkles on the left arm pocket. That adds a level of reality which cannot be matched by a sim (which generally creates wrinkles on a larger scale).
This is one thing I disagree with; lack of intricacy isn't, to me at least, a valid excuse to not buy an item. Not every PA may feel that such is needed for a given product, or even any of their products.
And that sort of detailing is fine; what I was more referring to is the stuff that some PAs do to create the illusion of wrinkles in the fabric at knees or the front of the pelvis. That's what looks like poo when simulated.
I disagree. IMHO, baked in wrinkles look good for just one pose. For every other pose, those wrinkles that you zoomed in on look worse because they flow in the wrong direction. That detracts from a level of reality that cannot be erased. Much easier to add micro detail than to remove it.
Yep, Daz is probably more likely to buy lesser quality clothing for males, since so few vendors create clothing for the males, but the lesser quality items are less likely to be purchased. And venders and Daz see that they make more money selling female clothing and makes them even less likely to create/sell male clothing. It's a catch 22 situation that just perpetuates the problem.
Some might hate me for saying this, but I think the Daz store has been having an overall drop in quality the last few months. I don't know if a different person is responsible for what goes in the store now, but I've noticed a rise in products by vendors who a few years ago wouldn't even have made it into the store, and a very noticeable absence of some of my favorite vendors since Genesis 8 arrived that couldn't seem to release enough items for Genesis 3. It's been bothering me for awhile...and it's worrying really.