Sorry Daz, I thought it was your fault. FBX and Cinema 4D
andykarta
Posts: 84
I've been heaping too much dirt on Daz and too much praise on Cinema 4D. I wasn't flaming Daz in public. But in my brain...oh nellie! Two hours ago however, I confirmed that my basic pipeline finally works so it's a day of days, the end result of months of frustration. But the outcome has made me kind of call the key element of that pipeline into question, specifically my love for Cinema 4d.
The basic idea was that I would generate characters by finding front and side pictures of people with interesting looks and modeling them in Facegen. Then export to Genesis 2 in Daz. Export that into Cinema 4D as an FBX. Then export it to MotionBuilder to rig and animate. Then export the animation back into Cinema where I'd build the sets and render.
I started with my lovely and talented Angel.
Attachment 1 shows how she looks like in Daz. Sorry for the censored nudity.
Attachment 2 what she looks like in MotionBuilder
Attachment 3 shows how she looks like in Maya.
Attachment 4 shows how she looked like in Cinema 4D. Boooooooo!
But with over two months trying to solve this problem, attachment 5 shows how she looks in Cinema 4d now. Yay!
I assumed Daz was ultimately to blame for the crappy import into Cinema 4d. Cinema was bullitproof. It didn't crash like Maya and 3D Max. Its interface was like buttah. You could keep your mind on what you're trying to create rather than trying to remember where everything is and how to do particular tasks like in Maya. Plus, Daz did things different in ways (like the inverted X axis) that made its compatibility with other software a bit problematic. So I wrongly hated Daz as the problems created roadblocks that took me off the beaten path to such odd places like learning PTEX and the whole Maya, Mudbox, Motionbuilder thing.
Don't get me wrong, Daz has massive issues and Cinema 4D is awesome in fifty different ways. But I couldn't rig a genesis 2 model in Cinema 4D. I couldn't UV genesis 2 in Bodypaint. And I blamed Daz calling it such things as 'psycho girlfriend' while Cinema 4D I heralded as the greatest piece of software I'd ever used, including video games.
I don't think I'm going to be heralding Cinema 4D very much for a while. In fact, I'm actually thinking of chucking it for Maya all together.
It all has to do with fbx files. They're the files that work between nearly all 3d software products. I MUST use them in my pipeline unless I want to do everything in Maya or Cinema 4D and I can't since I need Daz and Facegen to make my people.
And that's why I'm seriously considering breaking up with Cinema 4D. Of all things, Maxon (maker of Cinema 4D) your FBX importer is buggy? Really? Its kind of a deal breaker.
Let me tell you what I found the core problem was. When the mesh is subdivided like in genesis 2, textures get offset vertically by 4 percent and are about 8 percent too small. Every texture. And what blows me away is that there really isn't a solution...well there is, but you have to cheat. So to get the texture right you got to spend all this time, realigning it and growing it and it still doesn't look right.
So, go into bodypaint you say. That's the texture program within Cinema 4D. But remember, I'm using genesis 2 cuz its beautiful. Fuse, Character Gen, even Poser has nothing I like nearly as much. But genesis 2 is beautiful because its subdivided and when you try to project the UVW map onto a flat plane it explodes. With A LOT of trial and error you can get it down but we're talking a lot of work on each new model I make. We're talking hours and hours. This is no one's fault. Genesis 2 is gorgeous and this is the price you pay.
What I ultimately did was figure out how to get a collada (.dae) file into Cinema 4D. I had a big problem here til I took it out of its group in Daz and zeroed out every perameter (including scale). Once I did that it came into Cinema 4D beautifully. That was the solution. Just transfer the textures from a Collada model to an FBX model in Cinema 4D and my girl looks awesome again. In hindsight I don't know why I didn't think of this sooner. But I've only been animating since June and in my defense, in all the hundreds of pages of forums and tutorials I went through and the hours of video I watched, no one said, 'hey, transfer the textures dude."
This is one of those 'if it don't kill you, stronger' things. I learned Maya, Mudbox, and MotionBuilder because of this (though 'learning' Maya means I know how to do about 2 percent of the things Maya can do). In fact I learned PTEX to avoid UV mapping the genesis 2 mesh. I learned about the different rendering engines to a degree I'll never use because of PTEX. I'm fluent in Mocap because of this. I can sculpt because even when you combine characters Daz clothing caused mesh problems in animation. I learned how to composite effectively so I could keep my people in Daz and do the sets in Cinema 4D.
Now I can render my animation in one 3d program so the lights and camera angles will be consistant. It means much less time in Photoshop and much, much, much less time in After Effects and Fusion 8. I'm just not sure which 3d program its gonna be.
I hate Maya far less now than when I started. It forces you to do things correctly. It forces you to do the things that people who hire animators look for when they scrutinize your showreel. It forces you to use hotkeys. Its mental ray renderer is almost as good as Octane and Unreal and it doesn't cost 400 bucks. And it looks really good on a resume.
But Cinema 4D is still amazing. It renders way faster than IRAY and if I want to skin my humps in PTEX, I've got Pixar's magical Renderman. I'm not a fan of its rigging system even though the Character Tag you use is pretty good. MotionBuilder however lets me use the incredible Genesis 2 skeleton and its easy so now the point is moot. And once I've got my people rigged, sculpted and textured, Cinema 4D handles animation like a dream. Its got cameras that can move on a spline and keyframing attributes is as easy as hitting a little dot. Its got a take system and in terms of sculpting tools you can only get better with ZBrush or Mudbox.
So I don't know...but what I do know, this has been a day of days. Now I'm going to sit back and bingwatch Seinfeld as I wonder what the next big pain in the butt issue I face will teach me.
One big thing I've learned through all of this. There's no way you can learn animation on your own unless you're obsessed. If I wasn't a crazed wackjob who can sit in front of 3d animation 12 or 14 hours a day I would have told them all to bite me.
And one last thing. In one regard, Daz has got Cinema 4D and Maya beat by a mile. The support in these forums are sooooo much better. You peeps seem to really care about helping. Hopefully someone else can use my collada solution and save themselves some FBX Cinema 4d heartache.
Image removed for nudity. Please see this thread for info: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/3279/acceptable-ways-of-handling-nudity
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Comments
What version are you using for C4D, and what FBX version are you exporting from DS ?
I do not have this problem in C4D with any generation of Daz model with FBX import . And it seems to work fine for everyone else; just take a quick look on youtube - there are many tutorials showing the same thing - works ok in terms of UV's and textures for Gen 1/2/3/8 . (There are other issues with DS's version of FBX, but not the one you are describing)
And I'm not sure what you're getting at about the subdivided mesh causing the offset, because DS's FBX exporter only supports base mesh. No subD. Textures are fine in C4D
If you meant subd applied in C4D, it also works with it's own algorithms (different than DS's - you lose things like HD morphs), but the UV's are the same. So again no problems.
Maybe it had something to do with your export settings or your own custom textures ?
Are you using 3rd party FBX importer like Cactus Dan's FBX tools or default C4D FBX importer ?
Again, only been at this since June. I'm using R17 Cinema 4D and Autodesk 2018 student version. I have tried every combination of FBX versions and nearly all the option combos as well as baking and exporting and exporting and baking in different patterns. I have no doubt you know more than me on this. But if FBX doesn't move subdivided meshes why does it have a SubD information checkbox? I assumed SubD stood for subdivision. But one thing animation has taught me is humility so I could very well be wrong.
I too have seen plenty of videos saying exporting FBX from Daz to Cinema 4D is a dream. If you have a homemade UV map Gen 2 or 3 character I'd like to see it. Its not impossible to cut up the UV right but it aint fun. At least not for me.
I just read a post saying there were problems exporting Daz models to Maya. I've never had a problem with that. Software is fickle. That's all I can say. But I have a workaround that works so yay.
FBX as a specification supports many things, LOD's, - BUT DS's version of FBX currently does not support it. Maybe it's a feature to be implemented in the future for DS ? Eitherway it definitely doesn't work right now
You can confirm for yourself, just check the polygons in C4D ("object information") . It's the base mesh. Or just look at it with your eyes if you were using a "HD" model in DS . Way less detailed when exported as FBX. Export a subd obj from DS and compare.
It's not a perfect "dream" . There are issues with DS's FBX export version . 1) no JCM's - some movements and bends aren't as "clean" as they should be. 2) base resolution only, no LOD's . Signficant quality loss on some models. On others there is barely any difference.
Check your textures first - import your modifed version(s) with their "original" maps into an image editor (eg. photoshop, gimp etc...) and superimpose them . Click visibility on/off and see if they match
But if there was an issue with your textures I would have expected the same issue to manifest in the other programs as well. So something there has to be some additional explanations as well
Wow, and I thought people would make fun of me for being such a prude. Instead its like I'm a pornagrapher. But hey not knowing the rules is no excuse, right. As for importing, omg you are soooo right. Its why I started learning Cinema 4D. And student versions of Autodesk are pretty reasonable, though I guess reasonable is in the eye of the beholder. In fact, you can probably get it for free if you take a class or join a Maya meetup group.
Finally, if you want money. Sure. Just reply with your bank information and pin number and I'll send you a bunch of cash from my Nigerian account. I'M KIDDING. DO NOT SEND ME YOUR BANK INFORMATION.
I believe part of the problem with my textures was the use of Facegen Pro. In my now deleted photo of Angel in Cinema 4D the limbs seemed to be imported from Facegen and actually fit okay. The torso is much lighter and seems to be the original. Though the face is also off and that's straight out of Facegen so I don't know. I didn't put a bar over the chest of that model because...and I'm laughing as I'm about to write this...I wanted people to see the placement of the nipples. They have a vertical offset and aren't as big as they should be...just like grandma...I'm kidding. I'm in a weird mood because I'm so happy I have a workaround.
Now I'm only going to use Daz to create a basic gen 2 model and apply facegen to it. Then its off to MotionBuilder. I read that gen 3 imports much better in FBX than gen 2, but I much prefer how Facegen works with Gen 2.
One big thing I've learned through all of this. There's no way you can learn animation on your own unless you're obsessed. If I wasn't a crazed wackjob who can sit in front of 3d animation 12 or 14 hours a day I would have told them all to bite me.
No truer words have ever been spoken. We are sick and there is no AAA (animators anonymous assoc.). Only 12-14 hours a day? You have a light case. Perhaps there is still time for you... run, my son. Run! Me? I am doomed. I have no choice. I have to finish it.
Please repost your photos. I want to see your creation.
Actually because I've had issues with Daz clothes animating weird in other programs, I'm basically going to sculpt the clothes on my characters. As a result, all my newer stuff has my people naked and as we've seen already, that's kind of frowned upon here. I can show you some stuff from July and August when I was still using Daz clothes. I don't think they look too bad but they're not nearly as good as most of the stuff I see here. I'm happy with her face which I made in Facegen Pro using pictures from a ninties actress and, well, adult model. The uniform was based on the awesomely incredible g2f bodysuit. Possibly the best thing I've ever downloaded for Daz, btw. The jet pack, gauntlets and ornaments were some of the first things I made in Cinema 4D so please be gentle. Oh and the thing on her arm is a holographic computer. Its basically a placeholder that I would add post production in After Effects. Now I have a much better one but again, its on a naked character. The poses I'm including have her using it because she's going to be hacking a computer while fighting werewolf ninja. I'm going for kind of a Jackie Chan effect. You'll be able to see what she's typing and every time she gets hit she'll get a syntax error and have to start again.
LOL, hilarious! Keep it up, man. Don't give up. Even if it feels you are going to die from frustration and sleep deprivation, just suck it up and continue. I want to see you finish this. I know how you feel. I haven't slept since last June.