3D Print Questions - Differences in slicer software, cost of printer.
AnotherUserName
Posts: 2,726
Hi All,
My me and my Father in Law are getting a 3D Printer for Xmas. We plan on making a whole lot of miniatures utilizing all my daz3d stuff. We are considering three printers. The Elegoo Mars 2 Pro, the ANYCUBIC Photon Mono, and the Elegoo Saturn.
Im kinda gravitating towards the Anycubic photon mono but I have not heard the best things about the slicer software which is by anycubic. The Mars 2 Pro uses Chitubox which as I understand it is one of the most popular slicer software packages out there.
Does anyone have experience with both of these softwares and, if so, why do you consider the one superior to the other?
Also, my question about the Elegoo Saturn is also about price. Currently listed for 300 bones and Sold Out, im thinking that the $300 price tag must be a place holder. If anyone has an elegoo Saturn, did you pay $300 for it or is that indeed just a place holder price?
Thanks
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Comments
Congrats, wish I had a 3d printer myself. What use do the miniatures have, board game?
Maybe. Primarily, my father in law is going to make HO scale people, buildings and stuff for his train set. I want to get back into diahrama (spelling) making. Got some zombie invasions planned :)
You don't need to stick to the slicer SW that comes with the printer.
Any slicer that produces the correct file format output will be fine, in theory at least.
I have a resin printer and use chitubox and it is fine, easy enough to use with good enough results I've never gone looking for anything better.
Do you have experience with a filament 3D printer? I don't think I've ever known anyone who went straight to resin as their first printer, but with prices coming down so low I guess it will be more common.
Printing with PLA filament requires a lot of post-print sanding due to the filament lines. Not the best option when printing high detail DAZ figures and scenes.
and I've found out that it isnt just putting your DAZ character into the slicer and viola ..print 3d figure. There are in between steps and I have not been able to find anywhere or anyone to just list out the steps, what software, and how to do it. Everyone vague. From what I've read, you need to know some about 3D modeling and all that...like using Blender or similar. There are other programs that analyze your figure and make the correct repairs, but I've had no luck with what I've tried. Some free programs all of a sudden becoming pay for as well.
I think G2 character are more ready made though? There are geoshells for 3dprinting for the G2 male and female. Not sure how that works though.
I have an Anycubic Photon, the earlier single post one painted black. I have printed 3 or 4 V3 models no trouble. There were no problems with the slicer, and if you have problems, the Chi-Tu-Box software does a good job. But the basic one that comes with the Photon worked well for me. The simple slicer does not thicken surfaces, it leaves that up to you - it means that clothing may need a bit of work in the obj file state. This non-thickening of surfaces could cause problems with modern G8 hair, unlike the older Jim Burton Las Vegas hair I used, which is effectively made up of tubes. I have written my own software to thicken surfaces, but it's too flakey to publish at the moment.
If you want to do HO models on it DO NOT GET A FILAMENT PRINTER. They simply don't give good enough resolution, a UV cure one like the Photon is needed.
The earlier Photon slicer can't take .obj files, so I wrote my own Obj-STL convertor, which is for Windows. You can download it from here for free if you need it: http://www.chestnutpens.co.uk/misc/objtostl.html
One small warning with the Anycubic resin. I developed a fairly strong allergy to the solidified resin, with my skin stinging for hours after touching it, and it got worse as time went on - which rather put paid to my intention of making fountain pens with it. If you find this happening to you, change to the Anycubic plant resin or use the Monocure one. It's a shame as the Anycubic resin is the harder one and polishes better. Anyway, the resin paints well with modelmaking enamel paint, though acrylics are possible.
Hope you get one,
Regards,
Richard.
we decided against the filament printer. My Father in Law wanted the least amount of cleanup on the models as possible since he was going to work in HO scale. So we are going resin instead.
So, ive seen this issue come up before and the reference "water tight" when considering daz models. In my mind at least I can see how this could be done (slowly) in Hexagon. Also, ive heard that Blender has some 3D print tools as well for seperating models into parts, but I havent investigated that yet.
I remember you talking about your reaction to the resin in an earlier post. I think for that reason alone, in considering my Father in Law, Maybe we should stay away from the Anycubic. Although I suppose a reaction could occure with any of the chemicals from any of the printer companies.
Resin is the way we want to go. I had misgivings about doing HO on a filament printer. We simply wanted to do as little post work as possible (just like my rendering :) and I cant see my F in L doing precision work at that scale.
Now that is a cool use for 3D printing. I always liked doing dioramas when i was younger and always wanted to do a HO train set up. best of luck!
Yah, its something I used to do as a kid and just sort of forgot as I became a crusty old man.
As far as I know, the Monocure resin is non allergic and I successfully used it in the Photon. The only problem with it was not being a HARD resin, more like the feel of ABS rather than acrylic. I haven't tried the Anycubic plant resin, which is also supposed to be non allergic.
Basically, the Photon has the best cost-performance ratio I have seen, and would get that same one again even if I knew about the normal resin problem, but would use the alternative resin from the get-go.
Regards,
Richard.
Richard did you have issues with the resin after it was washed and cured or simply in all forms?
I use my printer for making minis, terrain and buildings for playing wargames and RPG's at scales from 28mm to 1/300th. Going bigger is easier than going smaller.
As to problems with using Daz assets, there can be a variety of issues. You need to make sure the figure is closed and is supported properly, the slicer will have a setting to add internal and external supports, external supports are more a thing with filament printing but I've had it come up a few times with resin prints as well. You just cut them off when the print is finished. People modeling specifically for 3d printing tend to handle this stuff before hand.
Also there could be an issue that the newer gen stuff has much lower poly counts. This could result in holes in the model as far as the slicer and printer are concerned. This could be why G2 worksand G3 and G8 don't but I don't know. I only use a few Daz assets for printing. I mostly use stuff I got modeled specifically for gaming.
Interesting. I wouldnt have thought there would have been any issues with G3/8. I wonder what would happen if you increased the polly count via hexagon or blender?
The problem is its all very trial and error. No one can say, take the asset, open it in this program, do this then that and voila it's ready for the slicer. While that would work on a specific item it likely would not work on any other one.
Some basics are to open the OBJ in a geometry viewing program and make sure the model's geometry is a smooth surface where you expect it to be. If it isn't close those gaps and holes up. There's no texture to paint over that stuff in a print. Blender is a good choice because it is free and it has all the tools you'll need.
I honestly am just speculating. I do not know for sure.
perfect example right now. I exported generic G2M in a pose to Cura, my slice... It immediately popped up a box stating the model had errors. So to fix it it needs to go into mayber Blender...then, with no 3d modeling experienc eor how to use Blender, its the end. Now, you can use the Gameprint service to repair. It is $2 per model for standard fix. If you want high res, its substantially higher. There are free repair programs but my use of those is beyond spotty. I'm using Autodesk Meshmixer ... I just completed a repair and will try to see if it will slice...or print.
As much as I plan to use the thing when I get it, two bucks a pop would probably get expensive really quick.
for sure. This is the 1st time I've tried that service to see how it compares. I'm using FDM with PLA not resin, but I've been looking at resin printers and thinking about switching over.
I know it seems really appealing to print your daz figures posed exactly how you want but I think you're going to find that very hit or miss if you're not willing to develop some expertise in using a bunch of 3d modeling tools.
There are many many tutorials out there by makers on using all sorts of tools for various stages of the process so you may not find anything that walks you through exactly the work flow you need you should find some one explaining how to use the tools you'll need.
With all the time and money, etc. that ive burned on daz3d rendering, I honestly dont feal that put off by doing more research to get these models 3d printed.
I have never been in contact with the liquid resin - very careful about that, and always wore a PP3 mask, apron and gloves while cleaning and post curing. It's the solid, post cured resin I react to. It causes a stinging sensation in the skin that touches the resin, and sanding dust is worse than the monolithic lumps (when sanding off the build platform contact points). I'm not alone in reacting, but not everyone does, seems to be luck of the draw, but if you react it starts small and gets stronger. I had to stop using the Anycubic resin before my workshop became a no-go zone due to dust contamination. I had no desire to suit up in NBC gear before entering!
Regards,
Richard
I use the monoprice resin and have never had any problem and the reviews say people use it in Photons. They sell it in 250ml, as well as larger, bottles so that would be a pretty small investment if it turned out you are allergic to it as well.
To everyone, all these resins put off fumes which you should not breathe during the printing process. The printer needs to be in a well ventilated space not near kids and pets. Garages and basements with concrete floors are ideal as spills won't ruin wood flooring or rugs.
Sorry to interrupt, but could someone give me me an opinion on the printers in the following links, please?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Comgrow-Creality-Ender-3X-Tempered-220x220x250mm/dp/B07F9Z6Z4W/ref=sr_1_31?dchild=1&keywords=creality+mini&qid=1607629295&refinements=p_72:419153031&rnid=419152031&sr=8-31
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Creality-LD002R-Photocurable-printer-Printing/dp/B08BZG31MK/ref=sr_1_13?dchild=1&keywords=creality+resin&qid=1607634708&sr=8-13
With the Photocurable printer, would models still need curing?
What is the cheapest way to cure a printed model? I think I saw a comment somewhere on the net, where someone said that they used acetone.
Plus, can you use any make of resin in any resin printer. Or can you only use the same make of resin for that printer?
I hope that all makes sense. ^^'
What are you trying to do? Small figures with fine detail will be better in the photo-cure printer. It will probably be slower. Most resins will be utterly vile smelling in comparison to the filament printer. You will need to wash the excess resin off afterwards too, probably in a container of Isopropyl alcohol, then you may need some post cure with sunlight or under a UV LED lamp. So, what you gain in resolution you pay for in a much less pleasant printing process.
Acetone is used on filament printer models, it slightly dissolves the surface so as to smooth it off and make it more difficult to see the different layers. It doesn't cure the filament plastic at all. The layers can be 0.25mm, while the resin printer gets layers down to 0.025mm at fine resolution, so it's almost impossible to see the layers. Do not use acetone on resin printer models if you want to keep detail.
The liquid resin printer will make a much smaller object than the filament printer and do it more slowly. The resin probably costs more too. It's all down to how much detail you want. The filament printer can't compete on high detail and fine resolution, but can make bigger and faster.
As for the final question, can you use different resins? Yes. But they need to be resins with the same UV frequency cure, and designed for this LED UV cure method. Some cure too slowly for the DLA method used in the printer. You will need to try out each different resin in the printer before doing a big job. And I do mean each different resin - it could be the same chemistry from the same manufacturer but a different translucency and colour so the cure may be a bit different, and get different overcure level depending on how far the resin transmits/absorbs the UV.
I won't recommend either printer as I don't know what you want them for, or whether you have somewhere away from your immediate living rooms for the resin printer. But, printing 35mm figures for my daughter's Warhammer type figures, HO figures for my railway and 90mm high models of V3, I got an Anycubic Photon, and used it in my garden workshop. A filament printer would have been totally unsuitable for the detail wanted.
Regards,
Richard
Thank you for taking the time to reply.
I would like to print figures. I have my own Daz Studio character that I would love to have 3d prints of (just for display). In regards to figure size, my ideal size would probably have to be printed by an industrial printer ^^'. But I'd settle from miniature to 30cm (if possible).
I'd like to think we had the space to accomodate a resin printer (mainly by the back door. But I can't see anyone appreciating that in Winter). And the only thing that bothers me with a filament printer, is leveling the bed. Most reviews that I've read, make that bit sound very difficulty (or almost impossible). Oh, and I'm scared of breaking the printer during assembly.
There are printers with self leveling print beds, my filament printer has one. My first one didn't and it was a PITA so when I got a second one I made sure of it.
Printing things bigger than your print bed is reasonably easy. You cut the model up, in something like Netfabb, so the pieces are each small enough to fit in the build volume and then add in clips/pins etc. to hold the pieces together (if you've ever build a traditional plastic model or done any woodworking you'll have an idea of what is needed). Then you print each one and put them together. It takes a while but it's certainly doable and a lot cheaper than getting a large format 3d printer.
30 cm is probably right on the top limit of being practical on a resin printer, though 20cm is more like it. If you think 15 seconds a layer, and a layer thickness of .025mm, stacking up to make a 300mm model.. that's up to 50 hours of printing at best resolution, you can cut it down by increasing layer thickness at the cost of reduced vertical resolution. 30 cm is also higher than the build height most resin printers will go, and will need breaking down to smaller parts. Then think of the volume of resin. The amount may need to be topped up during a build, which is not easy with a big part, if it runs out in the middle of the night it will blithely carry on and the part will need scrapping as you will never get it to align again.
With a 30 cm build, you're probably best served by a filament printer, but I hope you are not disappointed by some of the low Res details.
The office where I work has a filament printer next to the paper printers (a Sindoh 3DWOX) - was a freebie when we changed to SolidWorks 2019. In comparison to my home resin printer, it's pleasant to live with, marginally noisier during operation, and much, much faster. The post processing is small and in comparison the parts are good, but vaguely disappointing on the quality side, they feel rough, a bit flimsy and very light. The slicer puts on a skin and builds up a low percentage fill inside the model. On a resin printer the slicer will often have the capacity to do a void inside, but go for a 2mm thick skin or even thicker - unlike a filament printer there is no time penalty to making the model solid - just a resin usage penalty.
If possible, it sounds as if you need to see one in use, that'll be the best way of deciding.
Regards,
Richard
I've been looking into both types of printer in the past couple of days, and I think the Filament printer is the way to go for me. Printers that make certain things (i.e. self-leveling bed) more easier are nice, but are out of my price range.
One question that I can't seem to find an answer to is, does PLA need curing (or any other postwork). If so, what do I use? Plus, would it need special preparation if I wanted to paint it using acrylics?