Storytelling Feedback for It's Raining Men Contest 2020 (Updated May 30)

FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 3,001
edited May 2021 in Art Studio

Storytelling Feedback for It's Raining Men Contest 2020

Welcome, everyone!

This is where I will strive to provide feedback to the users who participated in the Storytelling Category of the It's Raining Men 2020 Contest hosted by @Knittingmommy. Apologies for the delay in setting it up!

Because last time the feedback got out of hand (in regards to time management) and resulted in a burn-out for me, I've implemented guidelines to help me organize this better. While these guidelines will result in shorter feedback per entry, they will keep me from running out of steam and will hopefully keep those waiting from getting frustrated. Now condensed feedback doesn't necessarily mean that I won't strive to do my best to give useful advice, so don't worry about that. It just means that it will be more focused on one aspect rather than try to tackle all of them in one sitting.


Guidelines:

  • I will only focus on one (1) entry from users who:
    • a) Showed interest by requesting feedback on this thread (I'll share the list down below). Of course, you can still request feedback by posting in this thread.
    • b) Who participated in the Storytelling Category. 
  • If a user had more than one entry, I'll pick the one I can provide more valuable feedback on.
    • Some entries are already quite strong, and there is not much I can offer, after all.
  • I will use a pre-assembled list of resources (videos and/or articles) as references this time around.
    • This means that two users may get the same reference if it applies. Last year, I tried not to give the same reference to users under the misguided belief that the second user would feel like I was reusing feedback (but there are cinematic principles that are unalterable and can apply to many things). So if you get the same resource link as someone else, know that it's because that video has useful information for you as well. 
    • Last year I also had a hard time finding specific visual references for some of the entries I was assessing. I think this was the most exhausting part. So this time around, I'll be forgoing that to be fair to everyone and will be using only the pre-assembled videos/articles I have already compiled. 
  • I'll only focus on what I consider the BIGGEST area of opportunity you can potentially explore.
    • If two areas are intrinsically tied together, I'll cover that secondary area but won't delve too deeply into that to ensure things don't get out of hand and I burn myself out. 
  • Last but not least, I'll refrain from giving myself a deadline like I did last year (where I tried to update this thread every few days) because that adds a level of unneeded pressure.
    • Know that I am committed to getting everyone's feedback and will do my best to update whenever possible. I thank you in advance for your understanding and patience!
    • Also, please remember that the feedback is merely my opinion and it is up to you whether you want to explore or ignore it. There is no good or bad decision, there is only your decision :). 

As a recap of our internal voting process, I want to share once more the criteria we used in case you find it useful. In order of importance, we rated five aspects as follows:

  1. Clarity | How clear was the story told with the render? If text accompanied the render, was it cohesive with the render shown? 
  2. Creativity | How unique was the concept and how creatively was the story conveyed?
  3. Mood | Did the mood of the render coincide with the message/story? Meaning, were the colors, light, poses, expressions, and/or composition appropriate or cohesive choices for what was happening in the presented story?
  4. Composition | How well were the elements integrated into the render?
  5. Subject | Was a male character the star of the story/render? The focus of the render has to be the male character. 

Feedback Order (first come, first served):

The entry I picked is the first one under your name (with the aesthetic). If you will still rather I focus on your other entry, post down below and I'll switch it around. I'll bold the user I'm currently on and will use this list as an Index, linking the entry's title with its corresponding feedback once it's posted. That way I won't have to keep editing one big post (because I hated all the scrolling I had to do).

@xmasrose (aka tulipe)

@evilded777

@Symms

@smoke14

@Faeofthe3rdDimension

@Denavin

@SaraT

@Tobias

@aprilshowers2065

@vwrangler

@BlueFox

@Carola O

@MelanieL

@Andricaus

✔ @Gordig

✔ @charles

That's it! If there's anyone I missed let me know! Don't forget to subscribe to the thread so you get a notification whenever I update. Although I'll still tag each user when I post your feedback.

~Cheers, FenixPhoenix

Post edited by FenixPhoenix on
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Comments

  • FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 3,001
    edited February 2021

    Feedback for @xmasrose (aka tulipe)

    The King is Dead, Long Live the King!

    You managed to convey your concept with a single image and clarity is always a key component of good storytelling, so very well done!

    Now, your biggest area of opportunity lies in pushing the lighting (& subsequently, the light's colors) to create a mood. Right now, your image is monochromatic (sepia) and that gives it a nostalgic vibe which may not be the best given your concept. So you can go several ways, but these are the ones that I can think of:

    1. Replace the sepia with a green hue (toxic) and then highlight either the puppeteer on the threshold with a red light (emphasizing his silhouette and drawing our eyes to the threat in the scene).
    2. Replace the sepia with a dark, cold blue. Then add a key light (warm, yellowish-orange) to the fallen King (signifying that the "good" has been slain).
    3. Replace the sepia by either green or blue, then add a strong red light to the silhouette, but have the light create leading lines drawing our eye from the figure on the forefront (slain king) to the puppeteer (the real focus of the story).

    The following are resources I think you'll find very useful:

    Thank you for participating in our category again this year!

    PS: Had an example handy of what I meant about creating leading lines with the light:

    Or, you can also create leading lines with the shadows instead of the light:

    Also, notice how these examples are also monochromatic (they use only one color), similar to your render. When doing something like this, it's best to use dynamic lighting to avoid everything becoming muddy and unfocused. Strong highlights and shadows (contrast) can create a color scheme out of a single shade and make it pop. Just remember that the light should also help us figure out what's the main focus of the render.

    On the other hand, here are a couple of examples of the type of mood going with a dominant blue and a red highlight giving the light a punch would look like. This is a very popular color combination when it comes to establishing "danger".

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  • FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 3,001
    edited February 2021

    Feedback for @evilded777

    And I Have a Bow & Arrow

    I love how dynamic the image is and how vibrant the colors are, it almost looks like a surreal painting.

    Now, your biggest area of opportunity is your composition. The elements in your scene have a ton of lines that can be better utilized. Right now, however, you aligned your figure to the bottom pipes/lines for the sake of aligning. So what you want to do, is to turn those lines into leading lines instead. You can also include some haze to create a sense of depth and separate your three big figures: Your hero (front), the robot (given the size, he should be further back, but right now they seem to be in the same plane) and the airplane on the back.

    You could also explore replacing the buildings with a more futuristic type of architecture to fit with the fantasy+Sci-Fi color scheme you're using. Of course, you could also go the other way and turn the image a bit more gritty. Lightning plays a huge factor here, and a fight scene usually feels more threatening by using harsher lighting or using soft light but desaturating it (like it's happening on a rainy day).

    Here are some resources that you may find helpful:

    ~Thank you for participating in our category this year!

    PS: I had a good example of an action scene (from Avengers) wherein lines are used to create flow and draw our eyes towards our main figure.

    Update: Had a couple of examples regarding what I mean about depth handy.

    In the following example, notice how by adding a blurry foreground and background, Joker becomes the highlight of the shot. The lighting also lends him a gritty, threatening, and dark aura.

    Another example of using depth to draw focus and separate our main character from the background and foreground.

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  • Thank you very much  @FenixPhoenix.

    Funny enough I used a green filter in post because my original lighting was too gold (and didn't fit the theme) I should have redone my lighting instead. Also added a whitish path of light (in post) toward the puppeteer. It seems I retained some of your advices from last year but was not able to use them well blush.

    I will watch all of the videos you linked too and rework the lighting of my image. Again thank you for your time and your knowledge, it is precious.

  • GordigGordig Posts: 9,035

    Too late to add myself to the queue?

  • FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 3,001
    edited February 2021

    xmasrose (aka tulipe) said:

    Thank you very much  @FenixPhoenix.

    Funny enough I used a green filter in post because my original lighting was too gold (and didn't fit the theme) I should have redone my lighting instead. Also added a whitish path of light (in post) toward the puppeteer. It seems I retained some of your advices from last year but was not able to use them well blush.

    I will watch all of the videos you linked too and rework the lighting of my image. Again thank you for your time and your knowledge, it is precious.

    You are very welcome. I think you've greatly improved from last year and I'm certain that you'll continue to improve. I look forward to seeing your re-worked render if you decide to share it :).

    Oh, and I forgot to mention, notice how these examples are also monochromatic (they use only one color), similar to your render. When doing something like this, it's best to use dynamic lighting to avoid everything becoming muddy and unfocused. Strong highlights and shadows (contrast) can create a color scheme out of a single shade and make it pop. Just remember that the light should also help us figure out what's the main focus of the render.

     

    Post edited by FenixPhoenix on
  • Gordig said:

    Too late to add myself to the queue?

    Not at all, I'll add you shortly ;).

  • @evilded777, I updated your feedback as well to include an example of depth I had handy (which I used last year) to clarify a bit more my feedback.

  • FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 3,001
    edited February 2021

    Feedback for @Symms

    Acceptance

    This is a great entry that tells a clear story at a glance. I especially love the man's expression, because he seemed at peace with what's about to happen (assuming he knows he's about to be assassinated). It feels almost poetic that he's also sipping his last drink while staring at a warm fire.

    I think you're biggest area of opportunity would be to push the mood further via lighting &, consequently, color. Also, a big thing to remember is to keep an eye on where you're cropping. Cropping limbs (hands, toes, fingers & feet) should be avoided. In this case, you're cropping the man's hand at the wrist. My advice would be to zoom out and give everything more breathing room (making sure we see both hands, as I think the glass is a nice detail to keep). Perhaps also consider going landscape and using the lines of the open door to lead our eyes better towards the subject? 

    By the way, I don't know if you've played it, but I remember years back I played "Game of Thrones: A Role Playing Game" over at steam. The gameplay is atrocious and the graphics are not the greatest, but the story is intriguing and well established. Basically, you get to choose between two main characters: a Red Priest and a Knight Watchman/Crow (at times you play them both but during different events).

    Anyways, when you play as a Red Priest you're given the impossible decision towards the end of his story to either help your family but betray your friend (the crow) or help your friend at the cost of your family. So in one of his endings, after betraying the crow, you get a montage of his family flourishing. Towards the end, we see the Red Priest sitting at a lavish room in front of a fireplace and drinking wine (very similar to what you're showing). The room has a yellow tint, signaling warmth and coziness. He also looks quite at peace... 

    But then the camera zooms out and we see a noose hanging from the ceiling. The character is then framed by the noose (boxed in), establishing that he's made peace with the fact that he will be killing himself after he's finished his drink. That contrast of warmth vs something horribly sad is very effective, and your render reminded me of that. This is why pushing the light to be more dramatic and establish that tone (warm in contrast to sadness because he's feeling at ease or dark blues in sync with the horrible deed that's about to be committed) might be something worth exploring.

    Here are some resources that you may find helpful:

    These are some handy references that may also be helpful:

    Framing + sinister lighting/mood:

    Mood: Sad and Lonely

    Mood: Warmth/hopeful/soft (almost gentle) to contrast the sad event.

    Leading lines + Mood: Worried with a hint of warmth. This is a popular harmony and with good reason.

    A variation of the last colors (a promo render for our peg leg) but with a more matte feel and introducing a blue tint:

     

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  • FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 3,001
    edited April 2021

    Feedback for @smoke14

    Reaching Out

    I love the theme of the entry and all the detail that went into selecting and positioning the items in the room. From the wrinkled shirt on the floor, the open duffle bag, the pills, gun, alcohol, and the dog. Everything was included for the sake of the story and that is wonderful! Congrats on a job well done!

    Now, your biggest area of opportunity is to establish more mood through light and colors. In this case, a central theme is "hope". The fact that he's made the decision to finally get help is a point that can be introduced and established better through lighting. Perhaps you could add a stream of warm (yellow/orange), soft light coming through the window. Maybe that light falls on his leg and his dog companion. And although he may still be partly in the shadows, the light is finally reaching out to him and moving him to choose life.

    I would also encourage you to switch out the wall for a different shader of bricks, as the low texture graphic becomes a point of distraction. You might also want to replace the texture of the box/nightstand, as that also looks a bit blurry and pixelated. Like with Symms, check where you're cropping when it comes to the dog. It might work a bit more to zoom out and give the figures more breathing room.

    Although I think the angle is good since the man is feeling vulnerable, you could also try to position the camera near the bed and use the edge of the bed as a leading line towards the figure of the man and his dog.

    Here are some resources that you may find helpful:

    These are some handy references that may also be helpful:

    Mood: Worried but with some hope. Perhaps in your case, you could punch the warmth a bit more, but a combination with a blue/aqua would create a beautiful harmony for your render.

    Or you can go for a single color (monochrome) and use the light to create different shades. Notice here how the light comes in through the window, softening everything and giving it an almost hazy/heavenly vibe.

    You could also emphasize the feeling for "sadness" or "solitude" by dominating the scene with blues and then having just a pinch of warmth (perhaps the glare from the laptop, or he could have a small lamp nearby):

    And this reference should help with what I mean about using the edge of the bed to create lines that lead us to the character. In addition, boxing is used in this example as well. Boxing (Frame within a Frame) is used to establish a character that feels like he's trapped. The tighter the box, the more claustrophobic he feels. The more boxes, the more he's trapped. I wrote an article about that, describing its uses via examples from Korean Dramas which you can read here: Popular Visual Cues in K-Dramas, Part 2.

    Update 4/12: I saw a movie over the weekend called "Night in Paradise" on Netflix and I came across some perfect reference for you. These shots are amazing at building a mood that could fit your render. Take note of the composition (how small the character looks and how isolated), the lighting choices, and the colors. Notice how by spacing things out, the shot feels un-cluttered. I especially like the second one, which leans more towards sadness and loneliness. But I think the first one (with a soft light of a new day) fits your concept much better.

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  • smoke14smoke14 Posts: 245
    edited March 2021

    @FenixPhoenix thank you so much for taking time to provide feedback on my entry image. Hoping to get a chance to look at/watch the references you have provided (real life has been pretty busy the last few weeks, but things seems to be getting back to normal).

    I truly appreciate your willingness to offer these suggestions on ways to improve. Thanks again.

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  • FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 3,001

    smoke14 said:

    @FenixPhoenix thank you so much for taking time to provide feedback on my entry image. Hoping to get a chance to look at/watch the references you have provided (real life has been pretty busy the last few weeks, but things seems to be getting back to normal).

    I truly appreciate your willingness to offer these suggestions on ways to improve. Thanks again.

    You're very welcome, @smoke14. Hopefully, the resources will prove useful or at least offer some good food for thought. Here's to hoping you get to take it easy soon!

  • FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 3,001
    edited March 2021

    Feedback for @Faeofthe3rdDimension

    Coronation of the Second Son

    I loved how rich in storytelling this entry is and the ambitious integration of subtext to help sell this story. The expression of the son who feels spurred and/or wronged by his father works great in combination with his fisted hand. The fact that he's standing in his father's shadow is also a great hint of his internal struggle (of being unable to overcome his father and/or feeling like he's being controlled).

    Your biggest area of opportunity lies in pushing your context via camera angles and creating mood through colors and light.

    I think the one thing to decide here is whether you want the render to tell the story of the son or of the father. Meaning, the son's look, and body language suggest he is determined to stand up against his father, so the angle here works against that. Instead of a high angle, you would want to give him a low angle --instilling power. Or, if you want to keep the angle you have currently, you could tweak the son's expression and bodylanguage to show that he's feeling unsettled, vulnerable, and small (perhaps looking down).

    The other thing you want to explore is lighting. Right now, your light is neutral and your render is lit evenly. So the light isn't contributing to your story. Try instead to use deep shadows to indicate how perturbed/angry the son feels. Maybe add some blues or toxic greens. Or you could also use a sunset (orange and deep reds) to indicate the imminent downfall of the father or the rise of darkness within the son.

    Here are some resources that you may find helpful:

    These are some handy references that may also be helpful:

    Having the character face away from the light can also give the impression that he is or is turning evil:

    Dark shadows with high-contrast and low light can also create a gloomy or hostile atmosphere.

    In this example, the composition is used to draw attention to the figure furthest from the camera. However, by boxing him so tight, it also suggests that he's the one losing the most in this exchange --even though his adversary is on his knees before him.

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  • Fae3DFae3D Posts: 2,409

    FenixPhoenix said:

    Feedback for @Faeofthe3rdDimension

    Coronation of the Second Son

    I loved how rich in storytelling this entry is and the ambitious integration of subtext to help sell this story. The expression of the son who feels spurred and/or wronged by his father works great in combination with his fisted hand. The fact that he's standing in his father's shadow is also a great hint of his internal struggle (of being unable to overcome his father and/or feeling like he's being controlled).

    Your biggest area of opportunity lies in pushing your context via camera angles and creating mood through colors and light.

    I think the one thing to decide here is whether you want the render to tell the story of the son or of the father. Meaning, the son's look, and body language suggest he is determined to stand up against his father, so the angle here works against that. Instead of a high angle, you would want to give him a low angle --instilling power. Or, if you want to keep the angle you have currently, you could tweak the son's expression and bodylanguage to show that he's feeling unsettled, vulnerable, and small (perhaps looking down).

    The other thing you want to explore is lighting. Right now, your light is neutral and your render is lit evenly. So the light isn't contributing to your story. Try instead to use deep shadows to indicate how perturbed/angry the son feels. Maybe add some blues or toxic greens. Or you could also use a sunset (orange and deep reds) to indicate the imminent downfall of the father or the rise of darkness within the son.

    Here are some resources that you may find helpful:

    These are some handy references that may also be helpful:

    Having the character face away from the light can also give the impression that he is or is turning evil:

    Dark shadows with high-contrast and low light can also create a gloomy or hostile atmosphere.

    In this example, the composition is used to draw attention to the figure furthest from the camera. However, by boxing him so tight, it also suggests that he's the one losing the most in this exchange --even though his adversary is on his knees before him.

    Thank you so much for your input!  I really appreciate it ^_^  

    I'll be sure to watch those videos, and see if I can learn to do better with lighting and angles, especially.

  • FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 3,001

    You're welcome, @Faeofthe3rdDimension, I hope you find the resources useful, and I look forward to your future work! :)

  • FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 3,001
    edited March 2021

    Feedback for @Denavin

    The Question - VIP Priority

    I loved this entry because it's a beautiful shot that quickly establishes the precarious situation of the two characters. Now, there are several ways to build upon this shot. The easiest one is to simply play with the lighting. So they are in the middle of a desert, but the colors being neutral do not contribute to the "precarious" vibe. So one thing you can do is play with the warmth of the light so that it's clear the weather is working against them. You could also move the time of the day to sunset. So you can have the sun sinking into the horizon, painting the sky red as blues creep into the scene. That will allude to how it's about to get cold and they'll have to figure out if they can survive the night. Sunsets are also very symbolic of "losing hope", perfect for when things are about to get difficult.

    Another opportunity to explore would be moving the camera closer to the wing of the broken plane. Then using that wing to create lines that would lead our eyes (and therefore focus) towards the pair of characters. Then, behind them, we would still be able to see the vast, empty desert. That would give more weight to the characters and their interaction.

    Here are some resources that you may find helpful:

    These are some handy references that may also be helpful:

    Blade Runner creates mood via colors. In this case, the warmth is saturated to give it that toxic and sci-fi vibe. But this is a prime example of how colors can contribute a ton to the storytelling.

    This shot from The Game: Towards Zero showcases a popular color scheme for movies: orange + blue. It usually has a connotation of danger or peril. You can use a similar color scheme by using the orange as highlights (from the sinking sun and/or a fire) and then have the blue dominate the scene.

    This shot from The Yin-Yang Master: Dream of Eternity showcases how poetic lighting can become in constructing mood. Notice how having the sun sinking and bathing her in gold, contrasting with the creeping shadows, gives the scene a sense of loneliness and turns it sad despite the warm lighting.

    The following examples from 365: Repeat the Year showcase leading lines drawing our focus to the characters:

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  • FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 3,001
    edited March 2021

    Feedback for @SaraT

    Attempting Magic at the Egyptian Exhibit

    I really like the colors you chose for this scene and find them very fitting with the Egyptian theme; the lighting is on point, especially. However, this render lacks a story and falls more into an interesting portrait of an explorer or, even, supernatural detective. So your biggest area of opportunities lies in injecting something to transform this portrait into, essentially, an event. To put it simply: you need to have some form of interaction or a sense that "something is happening" within your render/frame. The easiest way to accomplish this is to add one more character or add an element your character can interact with.

    You have a pretty good grasp of using dramatic lights and colors to create mood already. So it really comes down to expanding your concept.

    So the first thing to figure out is, what's the story? Why is he attempting magic in the first place?

    Let's say he's a time traveler who has been looking for his first love for centuries and finally, he's found her in a recent exhibition. So perhaps he's attempting magic to bring that love back to life? If so, then maybe you can show him leaning over the mummy, looking at her lovingly. And the title would need to be changed to something that will give us a better grasp of the story ("Finally, We Meet Again", for example).

    But without really having a story taking place in the render, it's hard to give more feedback than this. Your second render/entry also falls into the realm of a portrait. I picked this one because a possible story came to mind. Nonetheless, here's is a resource that you may find helpful:

    Visual Storytelling 101

    • Some great concepts are explained here which you may find useful.

    Some other handy references which may serve as inspiration (wherein you get a sense of something happening within a single frame):

    Notice the amount of information relied to us via this shot from Come and Hug Me. You a father hugging his son, but the mood makes the gesture creepy and almost cold (the blues, the low light, and the cages contribute to that feeling of almost claustrophobic danger). And on the very back, you see a boy peeping in, feeling left out and tiny.

    The easiest way to add a story to a render is to have two characters interacting and rely on emotion through body language and expressions. Notice here that the lighting is soft and neutral, yet there is no question that one character has power over the other. This shot is also from Come and Hug Me (a k-drama which I highly recommend).

    Sometimes a single frame can still tell a story by adding a component that feeds us information. In this case, the fact that the young boy is caged, looking alone and with bright red clashing with his muddy surroundings helps us understand that this boy's life has taken a turn for the worst.

    In this shot, the room provides a ton of information, allowing us to see that this man is living a lonely life. The TV's bright color adds the subtext that his life his anything but colorful, as he sits in a shadowy corner, with bottles of alcohol around him and his bed undone.

    More interaction between two characters to tell us the story of their relationship. One hopeful, the other tragic. Notice how the colors play a big role in the feeling that gets conveyed.

    And, of course, renders with some action almost always fall into the realm of storytelling, as there's always something happening:

    BTW, notice the beautiful colors in this shot and how they not only create a stylish harmony, but they serve as a way to create a contrast to make her the focus point (this shot is from Mr. Sunshine, which is a visual masterpiece).

     

     

     

     

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  • SaraTSaraT Posts: 58

    Thanks @FenixPhoenix,  much appreciated! One thing with that render that I wasn't very happy with was the pentagram. I drew that in GIMP, where it looked "chalk-y" :-), but it doesn't look very good in the render, where it turned out more "solid". Any ideas why that might have happened? I added a primitive plane and set the image on that, and then an opacity map which I generated from the same image (turning the invisible parts black).

  • FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 3,001
    edited March 2021

    SaraT said:

    Thanks @FenixPhoenix,  much appreciated! One thing with that render that I wasn't very happy with was the pentagram. I drew that in GIMP, where it looked "chalk-y" :-), but it doesn't look very good in the render, where it turned out more "solid". Any ideas why that might have happened? I added a primitive plane and set the image on that, and then an opacity map which I generated from the same image (turning the invisible parts black).

    Hi Sarah,

    That can sometimes happen when you add the emission. Here are some things you can try:

    • Add a black and white map to the luminance channel where the chalk texture (the gradations between whites and blacks) is more prominent.
    • Add a normal or displacement map, so that when we view it from the side, we can see some sort of texture (though that might still be lost under the emission).
    • You could also try decreasing the emission (thereby allowing the details of your diffuse layer to peek through) and play with the Bloom Settings (Render Settings > Filtering > Bloom Filter Enable ON) instead to get that sense of magic. Here's a good video that goes over how the Bloom Settings work, in case you're unfamiliar with them. I would even start experimenting with this option first, as it's my personal favorite in helping to create mood.
      • For this you could also do a render with Bloom and one without, so you can layer them in GIMP and play with the intensity.
      • Below are some examples of our Promos where Bloom played an important role in the concept (you can tell I really like playing with those settings).

     

    Post edited by FenixPhoenix on
  • SaraTSaraT Posts: 58

    Thanks @FenixPhoenix, I'll try to see if a normal or displacement map might help! There's no emission set actually, but it does look a bit like there is, doesn't it? I'm not really sure why that is, perhaps due to the yellow lighting from above somehow, or there's some setting on the surface that's "wrong"? Hmmm....

  • FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 3,001

    SaraT said:

    Thanks @FenixPhoenix, I'll try to see if a normal or displacement map might help! There's no emission set actually, but it does look a bit like there is, doesn't it? I'm not really sure why that is, perhaps due to the yellow lighting from above somehow, or there's some setting on the surface that's "wrong"? Hmmm....

    Interesting! It might be that you're using white color for the diffuse in the chalk in combination with perhaps a high gloss? Try adjusting both the diffuse color (to a light grey) and playing with the gloss to see if that helps. You might also play with the translucency values to make the white of the chalk less "stark" against the floor. Add a high amount of translucency (so you see right away the difference) and then decrease it until it looks like you envisioned :).

  • SaraTSaraT Posts: 58

    Aha, sounds promising, I'll test it out!

  • FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 3,001
    edited March 2021

    Feedback for @Tobias

    Old Friends

    I really love this image. It creates a nice and cozy atmosphere, which feels both warm and realistic. The attention to detail in regards to posing and expressions are also top-notch! The biggest area of opportunity lies in composition, though you could certainly also push the "atmosphere" by adding cozier lights.

    So one of the basic rules of photography is to always be aware of your background, else you end up with something "popping" out of your subject's head... which is precisely what happens here.

    The guy on the left has part of the cash register popping out of the top of his head. Likewise, the guy in the middle has the thermos positioned almost like they are coming out of his head. So moving those objects will help the composition tremendously.

    Here are some resources that you may find helpful:

    These are some handy references that may also be helpful:

    The use of symmetry is a good way to create a composition where there are many characters sitting around together, such as in this example of Game of Thrones.

    You could also try incorporating leading lines to give it a more complex composition, such as in this example of 365 Repeat the Year:

    And the following are just examples of lighting your set in a way that it creates more of an atmosphere. So perhaps you could consider moving the men's table to more of a corner and having lights (lamps) illuminate them to create more complex shadows.

    This image adds a bit of haze as well, which softens the shadows but also gives a sense that "someone" is hiding something.

    Of you could keep the more neutral tones but soften them and add a window so that natural light comes in, adding to the cozy & friendly feeling, such as with this example of Flower of Evil:

     

     

     

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  • TobiasTobias Posts: 106

    Thank you for taking the time for this.

    Now that it was pointed out I can't unsee the objects sticking out of the heads.  It's making me cringe a bit.  Interestingly, a week or so ago I posted an image of a guy in the park and the first thing I saw was a tree coming out the top of his head.  Moved that tree out of the way really quick.

    My original idea was to have a window visible in the background with a setting sun.  I couldn't get the angles to work so I abandoned that.  There is a remnant on the back of the guy on the left with the sunlight from the window.

    Regarding symmetry and spacing, I was trying to convey the relationship between these guys and their personalities.  I had a backstory in mind for all of them as I was setting this up.  The man on the left was the quiet, shy brain in high school who observed more than participated.  The man in the center was the student leader/jock type who went on to a successful career in business.  The guy on the right was also a jock but more on the side of class clown.

    Thank you very much for the links and the advice.

  • FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 3,001
    edited March 2021

    @Tobias,

    I feel you. Things sticking out of heads and cropping fingers/joints are some of the most common mistakes. I've done them as well when I'm so focused on one aspect that I forget to account for others.

    I did notice the light hitting the back of the guy on the left, which is why I suggested changing them closer to a source of light. Though you could always add lamps. The purpose is to make the light more interesting and give the otherwise candid scene a more dramatic/cinematic tone.

    I actually really like the posing and the interaction in your render. In regards to that, your was within my top three. I always struggle to have the interaction between characters in renders look natural, so your scene is very inspirational. There's a ton of attention to detail. I would actually leave the interaction as is, as now that you've provided more info, I can see their personalities reflected in their posing.

    So just cleaning the scene (moving background objects) and adding a bit of flare will be the aspects to explore. You could even push the sense of depth by adding an object to the foreground (a plant or even another table) and have that blurred out as well. Similar to some of the examples I gave (the one with the benches and the one with the guy sitting at the bar).

    PS: Btw, you may also want to try getting rid or moving the bistro menu on the table, so that it doesn't crop the hand of your middle character and we can see his pose better. :)

    Post edited by FenixPhoenix on
  • TobiasTobias Posts: 106

    Thank you very much.

  • FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 3,001
    edited April 2021

    Feedback for @aprilshowers2065

    Different Kind of Guardian Angel

    The story here is not only interesting but clear. I like the posing you have going on here (especially when it comes to the hostages on the back) and the overall concept makes for a wonderful setting.

    Your biggest area of opportunity is composition followed by perhaps adding a second color to your scene (though monochromatic scenes are good in and of themselves). So the first thing that comes to mind is that the angle clashes with your setting. Right now the camera looks "down" on your character (high angle) downplaying (pun intended) the threat he poses. Now, if you want to include a dramatic angle, you'll want to move your camera close to the ground so we are forced to look "up" at the character (low angle), instilling him with more power. You might also want to consider changing your layout to landscape, so things don't look as cramped within the image and you have more wiggle room to work on your composition. Spacing the characters (perhaps the angel on one side of the frame and the characters on the other) will also make it clearer that he's not guarding them so much as taking them hostage. 

    Here are some resources that you may find helpful:

    Canary's Composition Helpers

    • A very helpful tool that you can use within DAZ to help guide your composition.

    Rules of Shot Composition in Films

    • A video that provides a great overview of composition in films which you can certainly apply to DAZ scenes.

    5 Tips For Filming Cinematic Compositions

    • This video goes over building depth (1:43), Camera angles (8:21), and focal points (10:00) all of which are worth exploring.

    Why Great Movies use the Three-Color Rule

    • Great explanation regarding the use of color and how they build emotion.

    10 Lighting Tips for Cinematic Film Look

    • An excellent video filled with great tips. Embrace the darkness (6:52), light placement (8:48), and Haze (16:38) can help you refine your scene.

    These are some handy references that may also be helpful:

    Notice how different these three images look. They use a similar color scheme (monochromatic blue), yet the angle helps to determine the mood. The second image (neutral angle) also shows a bit of haze which is great to not only diffuse the light, but to give it a feeling like something is about to happen.

    The integration of grating is another great way to establish that one --or in your case, two characters are feeling trapped. Blue and orange so happen to also be a good color scheme, especially when it comes to crime mysteries. In this example, we get a further separation of these two characters. Though they are both hostages, one is innocent (orange, reporter) and the other is a monster (blue, serial killer trapped by another serial killer). So by casting them in different lights, we get that subtext.

    Here is another example of this color scheme but with added haze as well:

    And this is yet another example of that color scheme in use but with a composition that separates one character from a pair, letting us know that they are currently on different sides (apologies for the blur, as it is a still from a show and I couldn't screenshot a better one). Although you might not want to blur them out too much, this could you guide our focus to whatever you decide should be more important through the usage of depth.

    You can also create interest by "squishing" your characters and trapping them like in this example. I have an article which talks about "boxing" (aka frame within a frame) which you may also find useful:

     

     

     

     

     

     

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  • Thanks @FenixPhoenix! I definitely like the idea of a colour scheme; I'll give it a shot! Lots of great suggestions here; thanks again for all the work you put into this. laugh

  • FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 3,001

    aprilshowers2065 said:

    Thanks @FenixPhoenix! I definitely like the idea of a colour scheme; I'll give it a shot! Lots of great suggestions here; thanks again for all the work you put into this. laugh

    Happy to hear the feedback is useful. I look forward to your tweaks if you choose to share them :).

  • FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 3,001
    edited April 2021

    Feedback for @vwrangler

    Happy New Year, Too

    I love this sweet story which does a great job of capturing a glimpse of our new reality. Was this rendered using filament?

    Your biggest areas of opportunity are composition and lighting. If this is rendered using filament, then lightning might be more difficult to deal with (I haven't experimented a lot with it myself), so that leaves composition as something to explore. I think the first and last frames, which basically act as establishing shots, can have a more interesting composition by creating leading lines and having them draw our eyes towards the figures. So in the case of the first frame, you can use the lines of the wall to set those leading lines. While in the last frame, you can use the table to create those leading lines. That will also give you some interesting mirroring as well. You might also want to throw some depth of field to separate objects as well.

    Here are some resources that you may find helpful:

    "Leading Lines" in Popular Films

    • This gives a great overview of leading lines and how to set them up.

    5 Tips For Filming Cinematic Compositions

    • This video goes over building depth (1:43) & focal points (10:00) which you may find interesting.

    Depth of Field Explained: Ultimate Guide to Camera Focus

    • An excellent explanation of all the types of focuses a scene/image can use and what they convey. Shallow Focus (3:31) is the one that may work the best for your story.

     

    Composition + Framing - Storytelling with Cinematography

    • Quick, basic explanations of things to keep in mind when composing.

    Understanding Color

    • An overview of the importance of color when designing and some basic explanations regarding color theory.

    Camera Framing: Shot Composition & Cinematography Techniques Explained

    • Explanation of shot composition based on the number of characters who are framed. It might be worth exploring to use an "Ove the Shoulder" (3:29) type of framing instead of the close-shot of the cellphone.

    These are some handy references that may also be helpful:

    This is an example from "Feel Good to Die" of using the wall as a leading line to draw our eyes to the figure. The smaller the character is showin in the frame, the "smaller" (worthless, alone, isolated, frustrated, etc) he/she feels.

    This is one example of using a table as a leading line to draw your eyes towards the character. Notice here as well that the mood is quite somber and sad. (This is a screenshot of "The Last Kingdom" which I highly recommend. It has superb lighting).

    Keep in mind that you can also use the edge of the table instead (similar to the way the wall above has been used), such as in this example of Vincenzo:

    The following two examples from "Flower of Evil" and "365: Repeat the Year" show other ways to create leading lines and combine them with a shallow focus.

    And this example from "Itaewon Class" shows how you can create mood and focus on the character's emotions by using a shallow focus to isolate him from the background, allowing the colors, light and, more importantly, the character's expression to tell us what's happening. In this case, to sell us how frustrated and alone he feels.

    Hulu's "The Handmaid's Tale" (also highly recommend) uses the shallow focus extensively to nail it home that the main character (and the rest of the women) is trapped by the new society she lives in.

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  • vwranglervwrangler Posts: 4,808

    Thank you for the detailed feedback! I hadn't thought of using framing and color in quite those ways.

    It was rendered in Iray, not Filament; I haven't done anything with that yet.

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