Lighting in Daz Studio 4.6

tl155180

Can anyone suggest a good tutorial for setting up scene lighting in Daz Studio 4.6 please that doesn't use too much jargon and explains everything clearly for beginners/intermediates?

The offical Daz tutorials seem too basic. I've come across a bunch of forum tutorials on this topic, but they're either very old and designed for older versions of DS, or they use so much technical jargon that I have no idea what they're talking about. I've been using the AOIBL_Table and IBL_Table lights so far as a base and just tweaking those to suit my needs, which isn't too bad, but I'd really like to properly understand what each light type does and how its best used.

Thanks!

mark128

tl155180 said:

Can anyone suggest a good tutorial for setting up scene lighting in Daz Studio 4.6 please that doesn't use too much jargon and explains everything clearly for beginners/intermediates?

The offical Daz tutorials seem too basic. I've come across a bunch of forum tutorials on this topic, but they're either very old and designed for older versions of DS, or they use so much technical jargon that I have no idea what they're talking about. I've been using the AOIBL_Table and IBL_Table lights so far as a base and just tweaking those to suit my needs, which isn't too bad, but I'd really like to properly understand what each light type does and how its best used.

Thanks!

I am not familar with the AOIBL_Table and IBL_Table lights.

Most people using Daz Studio 4.x use UberEnvironment2 as an environment light.

There is a UberEnvironment2 Basics by omnifreaker.

This is the tutorial Learning UberEnvironment by Adam.

While you can use UberEnvironment 2 for all your lighting, it is better to use it to with a single distant light or some linear point lights. For outdoor scenes I use to use a single distant light and UberEnvironment 2 in the "Occlusion with Directional Shadows" mode using some HDRI map. For indoor scenes I would usually use a few linear point lights plus UberEnvironment 2.

One point not mentioned in any of these tutorials is gamma correction, which is a relatively new feature of DS. You should turn on gamma correction and set the gamma to 2.2. This simplifies lighting because it makes point lights and distant lights behave more like lights do in the real world. You can get some argument over this. Some people still prefer gamma 1.0, but I do almost all my renders at gamma 2.2 and I think it allows me to get great results with simple lighting setups.

I seldom use UberEnvironment 2 anymore. I usually use Advanced Ambient Light because it is faster. It does ambient occlusion, but it does not do HDRI environment lighting. The advanced ambient light can be localized to a part of the scene, which uberevnironment cannot.

UberEnvironment 2 is part of the free content that is packaged with DAZ Studio. The advanced ambient light is a product you have to buy.

Another good lighting turorial is Szark's Uber Area Lighting: The Basics. Uber area light planes are good for providing soft lighting for portraits and they are part of the free content with DAZ Studio.

tl155180

Hi mark128,

Thank you for the detailed and helpful reply. I'm definitely going to check out those tutorials you've mentioned.

AOIBL_Table and IBL_Table lights are presets that came with a beach table prop that either came with Daz Studio 4.6, or was a free download from their website. I've found those lights a bit too harsh though, because they're outdoor beach lights and I'm doing indoor scenes, so I've switched to Eruanna AOIBL and IBL lights instead now (which I think came with the Giselle Pro Bundle), which are softer. Eruanna doesn't use UberEnvironment2, just a specular, specularspot and infinite light - whatever the hell those are lol. But as I don't understand where lights like UberEnvironment2 or UberAreaLight are supposed to be originating from in the scene, I find it hard to use them.

My lighted areas are mostly fine, its the shadows that are looking horrendous - really dark and grainy. I like to shoot the same scene from multiple angles sometimes and its fine if I'm shooting the well lit surface, but if I render into shadow it just looks awful. But I don't want to avoid pointing a camera at the shaded areas, because thats too limiting. I'm not sure whether to try to light the shaded areas more, or use a brighter environment light or what.... I'm very confused :S

I have been wondering whether to use UberEnvironment2 or not, so the info you've given should be very helpful. I think the table lights I mentioned use UE2 and some linear point lights... might be wrong.

The Szark tutorial, although I'm sure its very good, is one of those that I can't understand because it uses too many acronyms and too much jargon. Feels more like an advanced user tutorial.

mark128

tl155180 said:

Hi mark128,

Thank you for the detailed and helpful reply. I'm definitely going to check out those tutorials you've mentioned.

AOIBL_Table and IBL_Table lights are presets that came with a beach table prop that either came with Daz Studio 4.6, or was a free download from their website. I've found those lights a bit too harsh though, because they're outdoor beach lights and I'm doing indoor scenes, so I've switched to Eruanna AOIBL and IBL lights instead now (which I think came with the Giselle Pro Bundle), which are softer. Eruanna doesn't use UberEnvironment2, just a specular, specularspot and infinite light - whatever the hell those are lol. But as I don't understand where lights like UberEnvironment2 or UberAreaLight are supposed to be originating from in the scene, I find it hard to use them.

My lighted areas are mostly fine, its the shadows that are looking horrendous - really dark and grainy. I like to shoot the same scene from multiple angles sometimes and its fine if I'm shooting the well lit surface, but if I render into shadow it just looks awful. But I don't want to avoid pointing a camera at the shaded areas, because thats too limiting. I'm not sure whether to try to light the shaded areas more, or use a brighter environment light or what.... I'm very confused :S

I have been wondering whether to use UberEnvironment2 or not, so the info you've given should be very helpful. I think the table lights I mentioned use UE2 and some linear point lights... might be wrong.

The Szark tutorial, although I'm sure its very good, is one of those that I can't understand because it uses too many acronyms and too much jargon. Feels more like an advanced user tutorial.

I am not familiar with the light sets from the beach scene or Eruanna lights. I don't have Giselle.

Distant lights are suppose to act like the sun outdoors. The "infinite' light is probably some kind of distant light.

Spot lights are suppose to act like spot lights. You can adjust how big a cone of light they illuminate.

The default lights include point lights and linear point lights. The point light acts like a real point light source, but you have to put the intensity above 100% to get much light. The linear point light is more powerful by default and it has fall off controls that allow you to limit the area is illuminates and how rapidly it falls off. The point light has true r^2 light intensity fall off. If you are using gamma 1.0 for your render though, it will look like it falls off much faster. If you are using gamma 2.2, its fall off will look more like a real point light.

By default these lights do not cast shadows. You need to remember to turn shadows on and use Ray Traced Shadows. Do NOT try to use shadow mapped shadows. There are bugs (basically unfix-able) in the render engine that cause fire flies when you render with shadow mapped lights.

These lights are designed to produce light coming from a source. In the real world there is refracted and reflected light coming from all over. This is ambient light. Lights like UberEnviroment 2 are suppose to simulate ambient light in your scene. You usually get the best lighting results using distant/spot/point/linear point lights to be you main sources of light and UberEnviroment 2 to provide the ambient light.

UberEnviroment 2 has a learning curve associated with it. It has a lot of parameters and you need to learn to adjust them to get good results. The default parameter values do not usually produce good renders.

The UberArea lights are intended to behave like an extended light source, a photographers softbox or umbrella. They are good for providing directional light with soft shadows that are attractive for portraits.

On the problem with dark gainy shadows, there are several things i would recommend:

1) Use gamma correction and gamma 2.2. This makes your shadows look brighter and you will need less ambient light to get good results.

2) On the advanced render parameters use a shading rate of 0.2. The default is 1.0, but that can produce gainy shadows. The Render Profiles for DAZ Studio 4.5 gives good ideas on how to set the advanced render settings to get good results. It is a speed/quality trade off.

3) Use UberEnviroment 2 or the Advance Ambient light to add ambient light to your scene. You should have to turn these lights down to 30% or 40% intensity if you are using gamma 2.2. You still want the distant/spot/point/linear point lights providing most of the light in the scene.

tl155180

Thanks again mark128. I actually understood pretty much all of what you said, so thats very helpful indeed. I hadn't been tampering with the advanced render settings at all, because I wasn't sure they'd make that much difference and I didn't feel confident enough to change them. But now that you've given me some pointers, I'll give it a go!

Much appreciated.

tl155180

mark128 said:

On the problem with dark gainy shadows, there are several things i would recommend:

1) Use gamma correction and gamma 2.2. This makes your shadows look brighter and you will need less ambient light to get good results.

2) On the advanced render parameters use a shading rate of 0.2. The default is 1.0, but that can produce gainy shadows. The Render Profiles for DAZ Studio 4.5 gives good ideas on how to set the advanced render settings to get good results. It is a speed/quality trade off.

3) Use UberEnviroment 2 or the Advance Ambient light to add ambient light to your scene. You should have to turn these lights down to 30% or 40% intensity if you are using gamma 2.2. You still want the distant/spot/point/linear point lights providing most of the light in the scene.

Thank you mark128! Your advice has made the world of difference to my renders. They look so much better now!

I have one more question please - how does one achieve the shiny look to skin (such as shown in the images for these products http://www.daz3d.com/amazing-skins-for-belle-6 or http://www.daz3d.com/natural-petite-breast-morphs-for-olympia-6 for instance)? Is it purely a lighting thing, or have they done something to the textures or shaders or something?

Thanks again! :D

mark128

tl155180 said:

I have one more question please - how does one achieve the shiny look to skin (such as shown in the images for these products http://www.daz3d.com/amazing-skins-for-belle-6 or http://www.daz3d.com/natural-petite-breast-morphs-for-olympia-6 for instance)? Is it purely a lighting thing, or have they done something to the textures or shaders or something?

Thanks again! :D

It can be lighting, materials adjustments or a combination. Some of the effect in those images looks like just very bright lights that are to the side and slightly behind (rim lights). They also may be boosting the specular in those rim lights.

Portrait lighting is different than lighting a scene to make it look like a normal outdoor or indoor scene. Basic Portrait lighting is 3 point lighting. You have a key light that is usually to the left or right of the camera and coming from slightly above. Usually the model should turn her body towards the key light and look back at the camera. There should be a fill light on the opposite side of the camera and coming from slightly above. The fill light intensity is usually lower, maybe half the intensity of the key light (at gamma 2.2), but you can also do equal intensity depending on what you want. You usually want the fill light to be soft so it does not produce noticeable shadows. Double shadows from the key and fill light usually look bad. You can use something like an UberArea light plane, which naturally produces soft shadows, or you can increase the shadow softness parameter on a distant light or spot light (note that on the DAZ default spot light, you seem to have to turn the softness way up, like 500% or 1000% to get the same softness you get at 50-100% on the distant light).

The 3rd light is a back light. It is usually behind the model, up high, ie coming down at a steeper angle than the key and fill light) Usually the 3rd light is position roughly opposite the key light. One of things they are doing in the promo images you referenced is they are using bright back lights positioned around to the side.

These are just general guidelines, there are lots of variations depending on what you want. A normal portraits you would get a photo studio have very slight soft shadows. More Hollywood style portraits frequently have stronger shadows (ie less fill light) and or harder (more sharply defined) shadows. Keep your lights above the models head, unless you want Hollywood scary lighting. Scary lighting has the lights coming from below the head.

There are two kinds of lights, diffuse and specular. Specular light is what is suppose to make the bright highlights on something shinny. Normal lights (distant, spot, point), emit both diffuse and specular light by default, but on the On drop down you can change the light to only emit diffuse or specular. Some people like to have separate diffuse and specular lights (usually at the same position) so they can separately control the intensity of diffuse and specular lights.

UberEnviroment 2 is famous for robing specular light from scenes. UberEnviroment 2 does not emit specular, which kind of makes sense for ambient light, because ambient light is not very specular, but many people add specular only lights to boost the specular in the scene when using UberEnviroment 2.

What diffuse and specular light does to the lighting in the scene depends on the material settings. Material has separate setting for diffuse and specular light that control its response. You can try creating separate lights for diffuse and specular and turn up the specular intensity to see what is does. You probably do not want to boost specular in the fill light, only the key and back lights.

If you want really shiny skin, like it has been oiled, you will have to adjust the skin material settings. Probably you will need add reflection settings in the material and you will have to add something to the scene for it to reflect or you will have to provide a fake reflection map in the skin material.

To get really good renders you need to learn both lighting and material adjustment. Products you buy in the DAZ store have material adjusted for some kind of lighting, usually it is at gamma 1.0. Sometimes they render really well at gamma 2.2 also; sometimes they do not. The most common material adjustments I have to make at gamma 2.2 are:

1) Reduce specular strength, common problem on hair and some clothes, never had to do this on skin.
2) Reduce velvet strength. common on skin and some clothes, a few times on hair. (Note, the DAZ default shader has no velvet strength).
3) A common problem with hair is the opacity map has gamma set to 0.0. This causes the opacity map to be gamma corrected when rendering at gamma 2.2 and can sometimes make the hair look thin. You need to change the opacity map to gamma 1.0, so it is not gamma corrected.

Material adjustment is confusing at first. There are so many settings and different shaders. I would concentrate on lighting first. Learn how to set up lights to get different effects. Then you can start to learn material adjustment.

tl155180

Wow, that is a lot of detailed, but easily understandable information - thanks mark128! I'm sure it'll help lots of other people too.

I appreciate the time it took to explain all this to me. I feel a lot more confident about messing with lighting now :D

Szark

tl155180 said:

The Szark tutorial, although I'm sure its very good, is one of those that I can't understand because it uses too many acronyms and too much jargon. Feels more like an advanced user tutorial.

Pop over there and ask away, what don't you understand, I can try to help demystify the terms you don't understand. It will also help me with a rewrite so more people can learn Area Lighting.

alexhcowley

The complete noobs guide to uber environment 2:

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/26122/

I found this really useful, back in the days when I was a virgin.

Cheers

Alex.

tl155180

Szark said:

Pop over there and ask away, what don't you understand, I can try to help demystify the terms you don't understand. It will also help me with a rewrite so more people can learn Area Lighting.

Sorry Szark, didn't mean to offend. I think the first paragraph put me off, as I had no idea whats meant by meshes and normals. I also started going crossed-eyed when you were first talking about Fall-Off (but I see now that you explain that later on).

I'll be honest that I didn't read all the way through it the first time I looked at it, because I got confused so early on. Now that I know a bit more about lighting its making a lot more sense to me and I'll definitely be using it as a reference, thanks :D

I especially like the bit about parenting a light to a camera - thats a great idea.

The complete noobs guide to uber environment 2:

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/26122/

I found this really useful, back in the days when I was a virgin.

Cheers

Alex.

Thanks Alex - yes, this is about my level when it comes to lighting at the moment lol, but I'm getting better thanks to this thread, so thanks everyone!

It just seems like theres so many different options when it comes to lighting that we're totally spoilt for choice and I have trouble getting my head around which ones I want to use.

Szark

hey no offense taken at all...my skin is too thick for that. My intent was pure in that I am happy to help when and where I can. Yeah Meshes and Normals I suppose is confusing to newcomers but are essential in understanding CGI in general. I should put a foot note in the read more later to avoid this. :)

Szark

PS I am just blunt with no ill intent. :)

tl155180

Thats cool. And I'm completely clueless :)

I am a complete newcomer to all this, as you've probably surmised. I can build a PC from parts and use it fairly competently, but when it comes to things like CGI and 3DX I literally had no clue before about 2 weeks ago. My degree is in economics, rather than computing - so not much help :(

I've managed to work out DForming, morphing, posing, cameras, so lights is my next big challenge and its proving to be the hardest of them all so far!

Thanks for the offer!

Szark

I tried to build my own PC some years back and completely failed, I don't have any educational qualification and up to 5 years ago no artistic outlet for over 40 years so I am living proof that it can be learnt giving enough time and determination.

When it comes to lighting many are in the same boat as was I. This http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/10835/ might be a little heavy reading but many have got something from it and helped them.

tl155180

Szark said:

I tried to build my own PC some years back and completely failed, I don't have any educational qualification and up to 5 years ago no artistic outlet for over 40 years so I am living proof that it can be learnt giving enough time and determination.

When it comes to lighting many are in the same boat as was I. This http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/10835/ might be a little heavy reading but many have got something from it and helped them.

Thanks man; I'm reading it right now. You're obviously very well self-educated then because from the way you write and your knowledge I had you down as a computing grad, sorry :)

Szark

Thanks back at you. Yep started to self educate myself 20 years ago and tried really hard to combat dyslexia. I love spell checker and have it for the net too. :)

tl155180

While I've got ya here, I've got another burning question for you. Being a stickler for continuity, what I'm trying to do is setup lighting in a particular location (the sci-fi area, Level 19) that will then be consistent across a variety of different images, where the characters move around the scene and take different poses in different locations, but the light sources always remain constant. Thats why I'm trying to avoid the whole splotchy black shadows problem (it looks like they have a big black rash on their skin from the wrong angles), because sometimes I'm rendering images where the characters are facing into the shadows.

My question is - is that a stupid thing to try? Should I just light each image individually based on where the characters are and what poses they're taking, rather than trying to light a 'location' and moving the characters around within it?

SimonJM

If you are going for consistency then yes I'd try and have a 'base light set'. Beyond that I may be tempted to drop in linear points (at low level) to brighten/highlight the figures as needed. Blotchiness in tetxures tends to be (in my experience) due to the shading rate (I think it is) set too low in the UberEnv2 properties and/or 'insufficient' other lighting (adding additional 'normal' lighting can help ameliorate that effect).

tl155180

SimonJM said:

If you are going for consistency then yes I'd try and have a 'base light set'. Beyond that I may be tempted to drop in linear points (at low level) to brighten/highlight the figures as needed. Blotchiness in tetxures tends to be (in my experience) due to the shading rate (I think it is) set too low in the UberEnv2 properties and/or 'insufficient' other lighting (adding additional 'normal' lighting can help ameliorate that effect).

Thanks Simon. I've put everyone's suggestions together and I think I'm getting there... I've gone for an UberEnviroment2 light at around 40% and then added a distant light at 100% coming from the side of the room with no wall (which I won't be shooting, so could easily be assumed to be a window) and pointing slightly downwards, with shadows on. Then I'm adding 2 linear point lights at low intensity, one at the back of the room and one to the other shaded side to smooth the shadows. Its beginning to look quite nice.

I'm afraid changing the shading rate on the UE2 light didn't help the blotchy shadows, but hopefully the additional linear point lights will.

Thanks everyone! I'd post my results to show you, but I'm afraid they're a little too on the 'adult' side :)

Szark

My advice depends on what your PC specs are and your patience level for render times. :)

If I was lighting this prop I would either place Point lights ( http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/23911/ ) just below the high fluorescent ceiling lights or apply Area Light Base to the Neon tubes surface themselves. To lighten up the upper part, above the ceiling lights and to give some all over ambient light I would use UE2 or AOA's Advanced Ambient Light. Using UE2 I would set it to Occlusion with Soft Shadows and lower the Occlusion Strength to around 75%. Also I would use the Soft Box preset at 50% Saturation.

PS I was writing this and waiting for some test render to show but you posted before I could finish.

tl155180

Szark said:

My advice depends on what your PC specs are and your patience level for render times. :)

If I was lighting this prop I would either place Point lights ( http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/23911/ ) just below the high fluorescent ceiling lights or apply Area Light Base to the Neon tubes surface themselves. To lighten up the upper part, above the ceiling lights and to give some all over ambient light I would use UE2 or AOA's Advanced Ambient Light. Using UE2 I would set it to Occlusion with Soft Shadows and lower the Occlusion Strength to around 75%. Also I would use the Soft Box preset at 50% Saturation.

PS I was writing this and waiting for some test render to show but you posted before I could finish.

No, no - please continue. I'd like to hear your opinion please.

What did you think of what I suggested?

Szark

LOL I am just doing a final quality render now and if you like it I can send you the DUF file so you can look at what I have done. I also noticed the materials had too much Specular on the walls etc so I adjusted them too.

tl155180

Szark said:

LOL I am just doing a final quality render now and if you like it I can send you the DUF file so you can look at what I have done. I also noticed the materials had too much Specular on the walls etc so I adjusted them too.

That'd be great, thanks. I've PM'd you my email address.

Szark

Everything that is glowing apart from the Sign have the Area Light Base applied and Fall Off set for the Column lights, Light Strips on the right and the small Red lights. Just remember the Area Lights are soft lights and don't gives much specular highlights. If you want more specular highlights then you can add further lights like point lights and set then to Specular light Only. This took 30 mins the render on my i7 3770 3.4GHZ 64bit system.

If you want it brighter just adjust the ceiling light Neon tube surface's Light Intensity Setting.

tl155180

mark128 said:

3) A common problem with hair is the opacity map has gamma set to 0.0. This causes the opacity map to be gamma corrected when rendering at gamma 2.2 and can sometimes make the hair look thin. You need to change the opacity map to gamma 1.0, so it is not gamma corrected.

Hi guys. I'm having a bit of trouble with one of the suggestions Mark made (above). How do I find the hair's opacity map and set it to gamma 1.0 please?

I have this hair I really like (http://www.daz3d.com/xylia-double-french-braids-2), but the stupid stuff keeps rendering as semi-tranparent, so you can clearly see the outline of the scalp each time.

Szark

Select the hair or Hair surface > Surfaces Pane > Select the surface you want and Click on the small Opacity map thumbnail > Image Editor > the rest should be self explanatory.

mark128

tl155180 said:

mark128 said:

3) A common problem with hair is the opacity map has gamma set to 0.0. This causes the opacity map to be gamma corrected when rendering at gamma 2.2 and can sometimes make the hair look thin. You need to change the opacity map to gamma 1.0, so it is not gamma corrected.

Hi guys. I'm having a bit of trouble with one of the suggestions Mark made (above). How do I find the hair's opacity map and set it to gamma 1.0 please?

I have this hair I really like (http://www.daz3d.com/xylia-double-french-braids-2), but the stupid stuff keeps rendering as semi-tranparent, so you can clearly see the outline of the scalp each time.

Szark explained where to find the gamma.

The gamma is a property of the texture image file itself. Changing this changes the gamma of the image in your library, so you will not need to fix it again (I think this it true, it seems to be the way it works for me.) Most hairs have several material zones. Sometimes these material zones use the same opacity map, but sometimes some zones will use a different opacity map. If the same opacity map file is used in all the zones, you only need to fix it once. You should check all the material zones of the hair to make sure some zones are not using a different opacity map that needs to be fixed.

tl155180

Szark said:

Select the hair or Hair surface > Surfaces Pane > Select the surface you want and Click on the small Opacity map thumbnail > Image Editor > the rest should be self explanatory.

Ahaha! I was clicking on the wrong map (the one next to 'opacity strength'). Duh!

Thanks Pete, you're a star as always! :)

and thanks Mark

Szark

My pleasure tl155180

mark128

tl155180 said:

Szark said:

Select the hair or Hair surface > Surfaces Pane > Select the surface you want and Click on the small Opacity map thumbnail > Image Editor > the rest should be self explanatory.

Ahaha! I was clicking on the wrong map (the one next to 'opacity strength'). Duh!

Thanks Pete, you're a star as always! :)

and thanks Mark

Make sure you didn't change the diffusion texture to gamma 1.0. It is suppose to be gamma 0.0 so it gets gamma corrected.