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I am not saying that the technical approach is wrong. I just wanted to point out that all the expectations here for hyper features that might come with DAZ 5 will most likely be wishful thinking.
And seeing how many issues already the "updated" files with Genesis 8.1 support caused for my Genesis 8 only library, let me assume that after a general release of DAZ 5, a lot of those updated files will cause issues with a DAZ 4 installation.
And as I do not own an Apple device, and never will, I see no good in DAZ 5 atm, as I can live with the current UI. Yes, probably, from security points, it might be necessary to update the framework, but for PC users, DAZ 5 has, for now, no real enticement.
And this is partly because of the lack of a roadmap.
The main feature of DAZ 5 is just to leave behind an already obsolete base for about 6 years. It would be madness to continue building on something that already lost support. It’s not just a cosmetic change for a sudden whim to put up a pretty facade. This is because they must move the entire building from one ground to another updated and maintained. Some walls of the building will crack when moved, but complaining makes no sense as we cannot stay here, we are on obsolete ground, it cannot be required to continue building here. There is no caprice, no choice, the only option is to change.
The first step is to move what is already done, adjust it and review it. We have been invited in advance to this review, which is beneficial for both programmers and customers. If they could have told us next year, does it make sense to bother about not having the complete and detailed information a few days before an announcement made six months in advance?
Now that imaginary threats have been averted, could we go back to the real known facts, like that plugins and scripts are going to be broken. How is Daz going to handle that? Are we supposed to buy the same products again, or are we going to get free updates to make them DS5 compatible? Also is Install Manager able to recognize underlying DS version it's updating those plugins/scripts for, so it won't update those plugins/scripts to DS4 versions? Surely Daz has thought about this before they even started coding DS5, so I'd really like to know the answer to this.
I know that Daz is notoriously tight-lipped and won't promise anything before something is ready, but this is not some new feature or something Daz can safely hide until it's done, this is something any reasonable PC owner thinks about. Why should I upgrade to DS5 if it offers me nothing new, but broken plugins and scripts I have already paid for once ( and probably a bunch of new bugs )? Is it even safe to buy any new products from the store, if it's not known will they work in the next Daz Studio version?
We don't know, I imagine that developers will have to make their own decisions about whether to do a free update or charge depending on the work involved (and perhaps some will take the opportunity to do a feature update while they are at it and make it a full version upgrade). We have already been told that the saved files will, features permitting, be cross-compatible so in many cases it will be possible to use the plug-in etc. in DS 4 and then transfer the result to DS5.
DIM already stores application details, including release channel (beta vs general) so I would anticipate no problems in keeping track of which version of an add-on should be installed to which version of the application.
I'm not sure I would be up for re-purchasing everything that I've already bought that is broken with the move to DS5, either. For me, what I'm really looking for is a substantial improvement to figure load times for those of us with large libraries.
- Greg
My main curiosity is whether there will be any changes to the libraries system. This is the kind of thing that I think there is no other choice but to define or redefine it at the beginning and I am assuming that it can be changed since they are offering us changes in GUI
Im Afraid one of feature is that the DAZ 5 needs TPM 2.0.
Thank you Richard. Not really the answer I was hoping to hear, but at least it's good to hear that I can hopefully stay with DS4 if needed.Of course it's bad news that buying new products is like throwing a dice, maybe it works and maybe it won't, but I assume that's just the risk shoppers have to take. Just one more question, do you think it's possible that we can return all the non-functional products after DS5 is released? I understand that it's way over the 30 day refund policy, but if the product is not working in new Daz Studio, is it still ok to return it?
Well I'll be damned. Finally, a substantial update on not just the Mac version, but DS5 as well.
For all my complaining, griping, grousing, and cussing... I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised and pleased at this turn of events. It's at least something, and while it won't be 100% up to snuff, it's better than nothing on the Mac side of things.
For all the Windows people dumping on Mac users r/n... I know it's tempting to do so, and tbf I'm no Apple stan myself (I only use macOS for convenience's sake), but holy cannoli, too many wet blankets up in this thread. They're not getting rid of DS 4.1x overnight right away, it's an optional public beta test. No one is putting a gun to your heads and saying you have to use it or else, yikes.
A more accurate description would be a pre-beta for both Windows and Macs for DAZ Studio 5 while also adding a feature or two for the Mac users to test, features that Windows users have had for months. Personally, if I were you or another Windows user I'd avoid it like the plague. A beta version, with new featuers, maybe, but a pre-bata? Yuk. Heck, if they weren't giving Mac users a version of Filament to test for the first time, I'd stay away from this one myself. "Headache" is too weak a word.
If it runs under Big Sur, it should automatically run on an m1 chip using Roetta2, like almost all other software has. The ability to run under Big Sur is the more important part for Mac users, eventual m1-native support is the icing on the cake... eventually.
Both Windows and Mac users are going to lose most of the same things like plug-ins, scripts and who knows what else. The only reason a user should be interested in working with something this early in the develpment cycle would be to test something new, which for Mac users and me is Filament on a Mac. I never have enough free time to help with beta testing but in this instance, I've already set aside a computer solely to test it.
-- Walt Sterdan
At least DAZ 5 doesn't require Windows 11
That would be a decision for support, though you would still have access (for the froeseeable future or whatever was said) to DS4 (well, or longer in the form of backed-up installers).
Daz Studio relies on an outside library called Qt to run, and the version they're using is 15 years old now. It's only going to get more outdated. Upgrading to a newer version will most likely result in improved UIX in the long run, due to the updated framework underneath the program.
Also, Qt made the decision to remove the scripting engine, not Daz.
I'm sure the fact that all plugins and scripts will be broken is why they clung to their dinosaur of a framework for so long, until the inability to run on Big Sur forced them to update.
My understanding is that the pre-beta DS 5 will install to a new location, so it will not effect the existing DS 4 installation. You will be able to run both versions on the same PC, so there is no technical risk in downloading it.
I will be downloading DS 5 soon after it comes out in order to check out the new UI, if nothing else.
Cheers,
Alex.
If they were promised to DS4 without any clarification that they will work for DS5 the 30 days will be the 30 days.
If you already bought for DS4 before the announcement, you have what you paid for, a product that works for DS4. If it doesn’t work when you buy it, you should have returned it. If it stopped working, it is necessary to demand without delay that it be repaired within the possibilities (author has not passed away and he/she remains active, or repair needs DAZ3D and not the author).
If you’re going to buy it right now, don’t buy any authors who don’t promise anything and don’t believe in vague promises. They must be direct promises from an author who is widely trusted.
When DS was changed from a previous QT I bought a product still knowing this change because the author hinted that he/she would updates once he/she saw the magnitude of the changes. The end of the story: when the changes came, he/she disappeared for months and didn’t even talk about the issue to let us know whether or not he/she could update. He/she simply appeared one day selling new versions (however, improved) and only confessed that he/she would not make updates when he/she was asked directly on another topic in the forum. I obviously never bought anything from that author again, except for some freebie given away by DAZ3D.
The 64Bit Mac version been under development for over 2 1/2 yrs since the Windows 64bit beta version was released (2018), So it doesn't look promising that a 64bit Mac version is coming anytime soon.
I was arguing with the " they made a lot of promises that a Mac version was coming", not that there was some secret Mac 64 version of Hexagon that you hadn't found.
I am aware of at least one PA who definitely has in the works an upgrade in the wings so yes have been still making purchases of plug-ins or whatever I want. D/S4 and D/S5 AFAIK should be able to run on the same computer like we did once upon a time with D/S3 and D/S4.
...sadly Microsoft didn't take the same approach which is why some, like myself, are still on W7.
...yeah may do the same just to see what the UI and library organisation looks like as well as test existing content to see if it still works.
And when the new SDK is released, project for new year, let's all get on the bandwagon and learn how to use it!
Bah, that was already modern when I started computational chemistry. We still used punch cards. That's why every FORTRAN77 code line had to start with six spaces - they where reserved for the punch card numbering.
I suppose the major issue with DAZ 5 is that they have to move to a more current version of the framework they use. QT 6.x? That is not even really finished by the vendor. They (the vendor of QT) have just release 6.2 with all the modules (first time) ported from QT 5. With potentailly quite some bugs.
I will be a happy beta testa for DS 5 on Mac. At least, DAZ is continuing moving forward. Well, what we get is perhgaps like that proverbial box of chocolates. But DAZ IS starting to coimmunicate on that topic (thanks a lot @DAZ_Rawb) which is rather a new move.
And, if it works on a Mac, it is much likely also wortking on a Windows machine
I have no issues with downloading the beta either so long as it doesn't break things for my existing builds, what effect it has on Content Management Service etc, my D|S4.11 build Smart Content works perfectly, my D|S4.15 Beta it's a mess, have reimported metadata gotten it working several times only to have it fail again, I cannot save anything autofitted as a support asset and have it work again in it either.
I can live with that as I mostly use 4.11 and Carrara so this would be just another beta to play with like the buggy one I have but if it starts messing with the database for either 4.11 or Carrara I won't be thrilled.
Mind you this is on my Win10
on Win7 the beta works perfectly with smart content too.
I certainly expect scenes saved in D|S5 beta will likely be incompatible with Carrara
...yeah I'm expecting the same for older versions of Daz as well. But with many plugins I use inoperable, not going to be working on any really important scenes. Probably won't even be able to use some of my merchant resources either so no custom designed characters.
DS 5 will still have to run on top of the hierarchical file system of the host operating system so I'll be surprised if there are any significant changes to the library organisation, at least as far as the content library is concerned.
Cheers,
Alex.
Well, I think that when they say you can have version 4 of DS on your computer at the same time, that is for Windows. DS v4 won't run in OS 11 (Big Sur) as far as I know.
From my experience, it also means even if you plead and beg and write in to the web site, they will do nothing to alter their decision.
@DAZ_Rawb I am glad to read that Daz recognizes this. I hope that this time around, documentation will be a higher priority. Please consider that even if the documentation of individual member functions were as good as it needed to be, the documentation covering the higher level architectural concepts would still be completely lacking. For example, what is an Assembly? What problem does it solve?
Edited for spelling.