Intel Fanboy Switching to AMD after Considering a Mac
Nyghtfall3D
Posts: 759
I turned 50 last month and have been a lifelong Intel / Windows user. The opportunity to to build a new PC to replace my seven-year-old Core i7 has arrived and, after exhaustive research, I'm bidding a fond farewell to Intel.
I almost bought an M1 Mac Mini for reasons I won't bore you with but recentlly saw an AMD smoke a Mini in a 4K video rendering match. I also watched Linus Tech Tips build a PC for a Make-a-Wish patient and was reminded of how much more modular and customizable PCs are. After spending the last few weeks watching Mac reviews and testimonials by influencers I feel like I've awakened from an Apple-enduced slumber and can see the light again. Then, I was overwhelmed by the sheer number of options in today's PC market and spent half the night catching up on the latest advances in hardware.
I'm still shopping for RAM, an AIO cooling solution, and a new case, but last night I orderd a Ryzen 9 5900X and am pairing it with an ASUS ROG X570-E Gaming motherboard. The motherboard will be here tomorrow and the CPU in two weeks. I'll be using my dual 1080 Ti's in the new build.
I could not be more excited and am eager to enjoy many more years of 3D rendering bliss.
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Comments
Congratulations! I wish you many happy renders.
Thanks!
No, but I ordered a Magic Mouse and was willing to learn how to use it. Then I had second thoughts and canceled it while it was en route. :P
I've built two PC's in my life, including my current one, and bought an Alienware in 2006. I've used gaming mice with all three of them. My AMD will be my third build.
I saw the M1 Mac Mini as a stylish, minimalist desktop entry point into Apple's ecosystem in light of the current GPU shortage and Windows 11's hardware requirements, but didn't fully comprehend how much I'd actually be downgrading my workflow until I started comparing Mac and PC perforamnce.
maybe it is different for other programs but I honestly don't see much difference between my i7 Win7 machine and my Ryzen3 Win10 with DAZ studio having used the same Nvidia 980Ti in both
I do in Carrara as the i7 has a considerably more powerful CPU but since it no longer has a graphics card the viewport can be laggy
Filament works just as well on both
iray will render an identical scene faster on the i7 if it exceeds the VRAM on my Ryzen3 which has the 980ti that used to be in the i7 (and sadly no longer works in it since damaging the motherboard)
bottom line is the Nvidia graphics card seems to be far more important than the rest of the hardware
Quite right. My problem is that my 4770K is too weak for my GPUs and isn't compatible with Windows 11. Granted, they render much faster than my CPU despite the bottleneck. Nevertheless, I need to upgrade, so I decided to future-proof my PC for the next several years as well.
I assume you ditched the idea of a MAC when you realised that your two 1080Tis were about to become expensive paperweights.
...been thinking the same however the cost is somewhat daunting (and that's with still relying on my old Titan-X to carry the rendering weight).
My reason for sticking with Intel is that Ryzen CPUs support only 2 memory channels (the Threadripper series supports 4). The least expensive Threadripper compatible W11 is the 12 core 2090X (second generation) which is around 750$ and along with as an ASUS prime MB (8 DIMM slots and 128 GB support for future expansion) at 625$ the combination would significantly boost the cost over the 10 core i9 and MB pair I looked at. The CPU and MB alone come to more than the Intel option which includes 64 GB of memory.
Nothing against AMD considering they've been giving Intel a run for it's money in the HCC CPU market like they have and I'd love to have a Threadripper. It's just that on my budget, the AMD option is beyond what I could scrape up..
I'm afraid not, and that was the first thing I thought about. I'm embarassed to admit this but I was willing to sacrfice GPU rendering for CPU rendering with the M1 just so I could enjoy the cohesive design language of MacOS. I figured at the very least the M1 would be faster than my 4770K.
I'm a visually oriented person. MS's constant failure to compete with Apple in terms of creating a consistent visual aesthetic on every level of Windows' interface has always been a sore spot with me, and one thing I've always been jealous of with Mac users. When I learned Windows 11 is no different, I started taking a serious look at Apple and was preparing myself for their world. I even priced a Mac Mini with 16 GB of RAM and a 1 TB SSD. I was shopping for peripherals and researching external storage options.
Then, I saw Apple's M1X event last week. I started questioning everything I'd learned about the M1 and whether it would really suit my needs. That's when I started looking at CPU rendering comparisons between the Mac Mini and gaming PCs. You can imagine how stupid I felt.
One thing this experience has taught me, and I'm quite thankful for, is that I value function over form after all. I no longer care care how old Device Manager looks as long as I'm getting the best performance for my dollar for my needs from hardware I'll be able to rely on for years, not to mention being able to keep upgraded without having to buy a whole new system.
Fair points. I would've liked to have stuck with Intel. I had narrowed my choices down to their Core i9-10900K and the Ryzen 5900X I ordered. Then I learned how difficult it is to keep the 10900K cooled. That, and several performance benchmarks I saw comparing the two, were the deciding factors for me.
I use Mac and Windows for my work, although I only need a MAC to build the IOS apps my company develops. I have never really understood why people think the OS of the box they use is so important, both pretty much do the same things. Considering that you spend 99% of your computer time interfacing with the various apps you use, and 1% of the time using the Windows/MAC OS themselves, then maybe that should not be the main thing to consider when buying a new box.
...well if you intend to render on the GPU with Iray or Octane, the choice is pretty much set.
This also is my point of why "gussy up" an OS with al sorts of bells & whistles when as mentioned it's actually used very little outside being a foundation to support the software used. If one wants more desktop "toys", that should be done through optional add-ons, not integrated into the OS so if they're removed it risks crippling other basic functions.
MS and Apple both like to boast about how beautiful their OSs are. That part of their marketing appeals to people like me, and we want a consistent visual experience during that 1% of the time we interact with either OS. My complaint is that MS has never cared as much as Apple about consistency.
On the contrary, nVidia GPUs work with AMD CPUs.
I believe he meant the choice between Windows and MacOS.
Oh. Right. :P
...for old timers like myself, I like the "keep it simple" school.. Don't need all the blinking lights, cutsey animations, or "personafied" assistants, All I need an OS that pretty much just supports the software I use and has the basic functions needed to keep everything running and secure. If I want a photo viewer, reminder calendar, or video player I'll add it. Otherwise I'm fine with the Start Button and basic Control Panel.
...my bad I was thinking AMD GPUs as that is all Apple uses.
This, after your computer is set up so little time is really spent in the OS.
Personally, I look at the apps I want to run and decide from there, rather than handicapping myself choosing the OS first and trying to shoehorn my use into it.
I hope you have good luck with the ASUS motherboard. My X-99 Deluxe did fine for 2 years and now the problems with the 00 code on the mobo displayand sporadic boot up. I hope to work on it again tomorrow. Some MSI boards have similar problems. Don't know if Gigabyte uses the same design for the newer boards but I have to do more research. My old Gigabyte in the Windows 7 Pro box has been great but it's getting too old for the new programs.
....still running with an ASUS P6T that's been pretty solid over all these years. But yes not only issue with running new software (like Marvellous Designer, Corel Painter 2021, and the latest version of Blender) but pretty limited in memory to only 24 GB (though some have actually managed to successfully install 48 GB through tweaking the BIOS). To justify shelling out for a major upgrade needs to be just that, an "upgrade", not a "band aid". I'm looking at W11 so that means all new MB, CPU and memory Cost for what I have been considering is about 1,230$ for a 10 core i9 10900X, 64 GB (4 x 16GB) memory, an Asus Prime X299 MB, and new CPU cooler. I'll simply reinstall the same drives, PSU and my Titan-X in the case I currently have. so that is what keep the cost down (I know an M2 boot SSD is faster but even a 240 GB is an added 65$ - 70$).
This does not include the 199$ for Windows 11.Pro.(still on 7 Pro and would rather jut make the full jump like I did form XP to 7).
Just hold off running Windows 11 until MS and AMD can get the issue with AMD cpu's sorted.. Actually may want to hold off for a while till Windows 11 is more mature an OS.. I my self just ordered an RTX 3060 for my Core I7 8700k based machine, and keeping my 1070ti in reserve if anything goes wrong..
...well more and more, W7 and even 8.1 (which is still supported by MS until 2023) are being abandoned by both software and hardware developers. May as well just make the jump to 11 sooner than later before nothing more runs on 7.
Whew! I finished shopping! Here's my complete part list:
ASUS ROG Strix X570-E Gaming motherboard
AMD Ryzen 9 5900X CPU
Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 32GB (2x16) DDR4 3600 AMD Optimized RAM
Corsair iCUE H150i Elite Capellix Liquid AIO CPU Cooler
Corsair iCUE 5000X RGB Case (Black)
Corsair iCUE SP120 RGB Elite 120MM Fan - The case doesn't come with an exhaust fan so I bought this one
Total Cost: $1450
About the iCUE branding and RGB references: A year ago I shunned the idea of RGB-enhanced PC's. I'd always felt RGB was a waste of money. That changed when my wife bought a $1200 Razer gaming laptop four months ago. It has an RGB keyboard and the effect she configured looks really cool. I quickly found myself admiring the aesthetic of RGB-enhanced PCs and decided to shop for RGB parts who's performance specs would best suit my needs. Corsair is the market leader in RGB and iCUE is their lighting and perforance customization software. After seeing it in action, the choice for me was clear.
Growing up, one of my favorite Sci-Fi movies was TRON. I marveled at TRON: Legacy's modern VFX. Every PC I've built or bought was named after the original movie. Now I want one that looks like TRON. Hence, the RGB.
Incidentally, this will also be my first liquid-cooled PC.
Here's what I'm porting over from my current PC:
EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti (x2)
SAMSUNG 850 Pro 512 GB SSD (Boot)
SAMSUNG 850 Pro 1 TB SSD (x2) (Storage)
XION AXP-1000K14XE 1000W ATX PSU
Way ahead of ya there. I'm just prepping myself for the inevitable.
I've been a lifelong PC user like you.
I don't give my loyalty to brands because brands don't repay loyalty.
The biggest gains I saw when switching up to a more powerful ryzen from my i5 is in compression algorythms. When I am compressing huge PNG files in photoshop or 7zip compressing files I seen big gains. Other than that not a huge difference really.
Not lifelong, but 34years has gone by digging into the depths of PC's... When selecting platform and the components to go with it, I have set the goal to reliability, compatibility and expandability. Whatever gain in speed I get is just an added bonus, but once you get passed the point of yourself being the slowest component on the system, hmm...
With the above in mind, I tend to ask myself a question, 'What has for sure been used in testing the software I'm going to use?" and select components that are nearing the end of their retail cycle to prevent teething problems, which usually also offer better value for my money than 'fresh out of oven' does.
Couldn't care less if my system does 160 or 140fps in some shooter, running the monitors at 60Hz and that's smooth enough, more interested in how much can it pull and how far and wonder if I can add wings to it if I ever had such desire.
One thing that I have learned over the years though... The most important component of a computer is usually ignored completely, since it's not familiar to the public and doesn't give one the street credibility that $10k processor or GPU does and that is the chipset on the motherboard, that is the first component that I choose when building a new system.
I largely agree but the CPU is what determines which motherboards to shop for that have a compatible chipset, so either component becomes the first thing one has to consider.
...still on old X-58 board here. Been running lke a champ but rather outdated.
Depends on how you specify a CPU, take i9 for example... 36 different models of i9 at my preferred store at the moment with 4 different sockets...
...as I've mentioned elsewhere, Intel changes sockets like we change socks.
Meanwhile Am4 is compatible from with Athlon 200 through Ryzen 9.
Which has been good for many people, but like anything AMD have had to change as well.. Their next generation of Ryzen CPU's will be using the all new AM5 socket, the big difference is that the AM5 socket will LGA based.. So folks who already have a Ryzen based system, will not be able to upgrade to these new CPU's and as such will have to buy a whole new motherboard, CPU and ram since it is rumored AM5 boards will need DDR5..
...AMD going to LGA with Zen4? That's interesting.
Wonder if the Zen4 Ryzen CPUs will support more than 2 memory channels. Epyc Milan supports 8 DDR4 channels but that's a "lotto dream" dream there. (Genoa supports a whopping 12 DDR5 channels). Epyc CPUs have been using LGA sockets since their introduction in 2017.
Same with Threadripper they have always been LGA as well, just this time around AMD are going to be using them with their desktop CPU's starting with the Ryzen 7000 series.. The link here https://wccftech.com/amd-am5-lga-1718-cpu-socket-pictured-support-next-gen-ryzen-desktop-cpus/ that gives some early info on the new processors..