Genesis 9
vonHobo
Posts: 1,638
in The Commons
Now that more figures are available for Genesis 9 in the DAZ Shop, I am starting to consider possibly moving to G9.
They do look a bit more realistic than previous generations, especially the eyes and materials. But I've invested so much into G8.
Is there a good tutorial or descriptions of all the new features of G9 so that I can better decide?
Can I use materials, clothes, poses from G8 on G9?
Daz 3D is part of 
Connect
DAZ Productions, Inc.
224 S 200 W, Suite #250
Salt Lake City, UT 84101
Licensing Agreement | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | EULA
© 2024 Daz Productions Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Comments
You don't need to move - G8 will still work even if you also have a G9 character in the scene.
There was both a pose converter and clothing converter in the sales a few days ago.
And there are a number of freebie pose convertors (eg mine & n_alexandru's - both in the freebie forum and as they work differently, it may be worth looking at both). Autofit works quite well on every G8 article of clothing I've tried, except shoes. So, you can try it out for free before deciding to spend money. G9 comes with a few textures, so you can try it quite extensively before spending anything.
Regards,
Richard
There is no reason it has to be G9 or nothing. Just get what you can afford and start playing with it. You can autofit most clothing and Sickleyeild has a autofit script in the store that helps with autofitting hair. There are commercial and free pose converters. As for skins, there is the legacy UV product from cayman in the store, but if you need genitals, that will be a problem with textures. IMO Victoria 8 materials look great, but I have yet to see any female PA character that comes close based on the promos.
Like you I have invested a lot in G8 and have some amazing custom characters I have created. G9 still has a long way to go to get to that same level for me, but it hasn't stopped me from playing with the new figure and working on getting her there
I did a test render of the base G9 and G8 and didn't seen much difference. It's only in the release figures like Victoria 9 and Rupert HD for Genesis 9 that I see the difference to G8.
But I have so much content for G8, which is one reason I never upgraded to G8.1. If all these figures were backward compatible it would make more sense.
The converters are nice, but it's just a lot of work for me. So I will probably stick to G8 until maybe G10 comes out. *Sigh*
Thank you.
Thank you for the tips.
I've spent a crazy amount of money on G8, and then just as I got to the point where I feel I have enough assets for G8, lo and behold, G9 is released. Just wish things were a bit more compatible between Gens, it would make things a bit easier.
Everyone else had made good points. Just remember, there's no real FOMO with Daz. You're usually penalized in Dazland for not waiting, because eventually things will get cheaper because Daz props itself up with firesales on a constant basis. So if you're happy with G8 now, keep messing with G8 and wait until there's G9 content that you want that G8 doesn't have and then move.
I've bought no bundles for G9 so far, but have gotten probably 3 or 4 "Did you missing buying the V9 bundle? We brought back the intro sale price on it again" since V9 launched. I would imagine they're going to keep trying to induce people with that for some time to come.
Victoria 9 looks good because of the artist that made her, not because of any G9 tech advancements.
It is important to separate these things. If you could put Victoria 9's textures and shaders on past Genesis generations, they would look just as amazing as V9 does. I guarantee it.
I have considered buying V9 and converting the textures to past generations just to prove this point, lol.
Thank you for pointing out this simple idea that had escaped me (and I pride myself on being simple). However, I was telling myself that the 8k additional normals map was what was hyping up the skin for me. If Victoria 9 had a non-freckled option, she would've solved my Genesis 9 skin problem immediately.
Let me know if you do.
I both like/dislike the eyes on G9. They look more realistic as far as the under eye area, but the way the outline of the eye is done, near the eyelashes, looks like overkill to me.
So I think there are some changes to G9 from G8 that might make a difference.
You can use G9 eye textures with G8.1 out of the box. The UV maps on eyes are very similar. I also made G8.1 UV work on regular G8, so by extension I can also use G9 eye textures on G8 if I want to.
You can try this on 8.1 by just copying the surface over. You will likely need to apply the correct shader, since many G9 characters appear to use PBR Skin or whatever it is called. So apply PBR Skin base to the surface first, then copy the surface from G9 eyes to the matching surfaces on G8.1.
Since there is a slight difference in the sclera portion of the UV, they may look slightly different, but the iris will be in the right spot.
I know what you mean about the under eye on G9, the tear prop. It is too smooth and milky looking, and really immersion breaking. I am guessing that a normal map might help, and the prop needs to be a bit thinner. On real people this is barely visible, almost like vellus hair. Maybe messing with the opacity map can help.
Another thing that has happened is that Iray updated how thin film works when enabled. If you have ever looked at a tear prop and thought it looked oddly gray, this is why! In versions before 4.20 it is not gray, it is properly water like. This is listed in the Iray patch notes, I can't remember when, somewhere around when 4.20 came out or whatever version first released with this Iray.
The 8k normal maps are pretty cool, not going to lie. But I still think bluejaunte's method of achieving these details is better for more situations. If you have one of his characters, the dual lobe maps on several of them are 8k in size, and they accomplish the task of emulating human skin patterns. This way the normal maps can be used for larger details. The normal maps can be way too strong for this detail in some situations. Though bluejaunte does a similar thing sometimes by cranking the bump maps way too high. I find myself turning them down, sometimes less than half the value he defaults them to.
I don't have V9, but I would suggest swapping her base color textures with the free G9 textures Daz gave us. The first set is based off Victoria 8.1. Just the base and trans color, leave the rest, and see how she looks. I think that would be a good strategy with her, keep all the normal, bump, ect, but replace the color and trans maps with others.
That also works extremely well with bluejaunte characters, as I mentioned in a few threads. Keep all the dual lobe and other stuff, just swap the color maps. You might need to adjust the trans color and value a bit to taste, but this strategy works incredibly well for how easy it is, and can really make your older characters pop. Plus since G8 and G3 have the same UV, you can even try this with your favorite G3 skins.
I went as far as converting bluejaunte textures to G8M, since they never made one. So I can use those dual lobe textures on males as well. Nix looks awesome with them.
I have bluejaunte's characters, and they are my first choice---except for extreme close-ups where I want to see microtexture. My main character currently uses a bluejaunte skin, which makes her look real in full body and torso shots, but I'm not happy with the lack of detail in close-ups. I've been switching out maps on skins, trying to find what looks best, and changing diffuse or translucency or volume values to get colors Daz avoids, but I haven't tried plugging other diffuse maps into bluejaunte shaders. Thanks for the idea.
I wonder if any of these morph products will work on Genesis 9:
https://www.daz3d.com/cartoonized-for-genesis-8-female
https://www.daz3d.com/musculature-hd-morphs-bundle-for-genesis-8
https://www.daz3d.com/auto-muscle-enhancer-hd-for-genesis-8-males
https://www.daz3d.com/z-slender-model-shape-preset-and-poses-for-genesis-8-female
https://www.daz3d.com/z-strong-within-shape-and-pose-mega-set
I have a few other morphs, but the PAs have released G9 versions for those luckily.
@von Hobo I happened to have G9 in my viewport and have Cartoonized both G8F and G8M and tried both on G9. Neither affected the character. I expect it is because of the bones being called different names. I expect you will need an updated version from the PAs for the list you have there.
Thank you. I was afraid of that.
It could be a year before these morphs are released for G9, if at all.
I suppose I will purchase a G9 character, like Victoria 9 or the new Rupert HD just to experiment for now. The base G9 is really boring.
I am staying with G8F, as joint bends like shin, thigh, elbow are far superior to those of G9. I will use G9 if and when DAZ fixes G9's joints. I have submitted a support ticket regarding this issue. No sense buying anything now as prices have escalated since the intro of G9.
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/7950741/#Comment_7950741
Yes! You're correct. I'm one of those who can't go back to G8 whatsoever. I've already remove most of G8 characters in my wishlist.
Good comparison in the link.
What I've found so far (correct me if I'm wrong) is that G9 opens the chance for vendors to be more creative. Vicky9 is the enhancement of Vicky6 and it's somewhat the pinnacle of the Vicky series so far. I'm a fanboy of https://www.daz3d.com/vootw and found that his latest work is on another level from his old works. Resolution plays the main role, folks. We have to thank 8K for this. It is great to be in the G9 era.
Morphs for a figure won't work on a different figure.
If you haven't looked over this thread started by AllenArt, may I suggest you check it out?
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/600236/head-games/p1
In it many people worked with the free products available in the G9 Essentials that are available and yes, when characters/morphs/add-ons became available used them. Discussed using clothes and other things. I was very impressed by the variety of characters they came up with.
Mary
I have been experimenting with Genesis 9 characters (Michael, Minerva, Victoria, and a couple others) and while the textures are good and the facial improvements are excellent... I still hate the bodies. Gen9 is weirdly doughy and roundy and the proportions just "feel" wrong. I have not been able to make a G9 character yet (and I bought several of the morph sets as well) that I actually like having in a scene. And to me, YMMV, they don't fit well in scenes with G8/G8.1 models because the entire approach to making them just feels so very different.
I'd love to see some new sculpts using the G9 innovations that are not so odd-bodied.
Sorry for the rant... but the G9s just feel super weird to me.
Thanks for the link. I'm reading it now.
I agree. G9/V9 is a bit too pudgy and short for my taste and the arms seem too long and legs too short. Some characters seem to have the head too small for the body. I know I can change all that but if I want to use stock poses it's extra work to make them work with proportions I use. I already make most G8 characters taller with longer legs and G9 needs even a bigger stretch. The only advantage I see now are the eyes and quick load time because I have very few G9 characters. It is kind of fun creating more characters from scratch though with G9 because I often get lazy mixing several G8 characters together rather than work on individual morphs. G9 will take longer to morph/pose but I'll probably be more creative doing it.
G8 works very well for idealized characters, probably better than G9 will. I'm a diehard G9 user at this point and I don't expect it to be as popular in the long run as 8/8.1, just based on this. I don't mean this as criticism at all, but a lot of people are using Daz to make pinups of superhumanly beautiful women, and G8F's proportions and mesh are basically perfect for that.
Well, until some anatomically adept modeller/rigger creates an anthropomorphic (human) body as the base for other PAs (or Genesis 9.1 is released), I'm expecting more play-doh bodies (Gumby) with photorealistic (non-Genesis-looking) faces.
If you are using them as is, the normal maps that bluejaunte uses are too compressed. The compression artifacts will show in closer shots. I remove the normal maps he has entirely now, and either use a HD morph or another set of normals. I ran into the problem you probably are getting, and at first I didn't realize what the issue was. It is all compression. Thankfully the important dual lobe textures don't suffer this.
Some of his color textures have compression in them as well. This isn't as big a problem, but can be visible under the right circumstances. I retouched some of these textures in different ways to get rid of the 'blockiness' I saw.
Finally, the displacement map that he started using on feet is pretty compressed, too. I tried different things. I upscaled it and resized it, and I repainted it a bit all to try and get that compression blockiness out.
I know that sounds like a lot, and it kind of is, lol. But the textures he uses for dual lobe are fantastic, and I haven't seen anybody else quite match that. The bump maps are fairly good, they are not as compressed like the other textures. I have touched them up in spots at times. The inner hands and feet being the targets.
So for those skin presets, just ditch the original normals. You may not even need normals depending on your intention anyway.
If bluejaunte happens to be reading this, don't be disheartened, your characters are still great. But I would really love it if they used less compression on these certain textures. If you have a raw uncompressed version of any of your textures, I'd love to have them. I'd pay!
Texture compression is a problem I am finding with a lot of products, especially environments. I urge PAs to please use better quality textures. I am sure some people will still cry that a product is too big of a download or something, but in my opinion it is better to have that quality than not. Textures can easily be resized or compressed by users. But it is very hard to get detail back into a texture that is horribly compressed and/or low resolution. I am not saying we need 100MB TIF textures, just not overly compressed textures. There is no point in having a 4K texture if it is highly compressed.