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224 S 200 W, Suite #250
Salt Lake City, UT 84101
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© 2024 Daz Productions Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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...I do same, Then a new generation comes out and I update them all. (though stopped at G8 as this is just getting too expensive to get all the utility and merchant resource content all over again). Outside of Sadie and AIko3, I don't think I ever used a figure straight out of the box without at least doing some heavy duty morphing.
G8 has so many more diverse and unique characters that other generations never had. (aside from Vicky 8, who I got free on a loyalty banner, I don't have any of the standard "stable" base figures for G8 such as (Mike, Aiko, Josie, etc. I also have a lot of "cross generational" scripts & utilities as well. .(with both Gen-X and X-Transfer I can use G2 and even G1 shapes/morphs with G3 and G8).
Yeah I think I have enough to keep me busy for a long time.
Oh good! It's not only my characters that talk.
AI needs source material, and if we don't allow it to use our pictures and renders etc., it's useless. It can create or buy its own of course, but that's going to be expensive.
No, not just you.
It CANNOT create its own. It can only co-opt, copy, commingle, and/or corrupt.
Yes, Agreed. If I understand correctly, Taoz was suggesting the AI could somehow buy its own 3D resources to make its own Daz renders - Quite impossible and at least somewhat humorous. But a joke that has to be explained... Sorry Taoz.
I am at the moment using AI to generate 3D models of myself from photographs
with awful results
its shown in this video
I will share the results when it's done
in the AI thread with more information
just showing this video I watched to do it to let know what's next
No problem.
That was what I meant yes, and I agree it's probably very unlikely it will happen.
A graphic card may last longer than a year to most users. but it will not be up to statdard requirements to render Iray within 2 year or less making it obsolete, NVIDIA upgrade the gpu every 24 months,
DJI mavic drone bought in 2018 still flying great with over 94 hours & 1100 miles on it . no upgrades required. Thank you I think I will buy a new drone
Cheers to that, Ivy
When is enough enough?
when NVIDIA announces all their new SDK tools n toys and they will only work on RTX40XX cards, and you bought a RTX3080TI think you would be future proof for at lesast a few year.
NVIDIA AI. Blah. You lost me at hello.
The software should still function for a long time. Most content is created by 3rd parties, so many of those people could easily sell from somewhere else. Genesis is pretty modular, so with the exception of HD morphs new content can still be created. You could even design your own stand alone custom figure, like numerous PAs have already done. So a group could get together and build their own successor to Genesis...maybe one that includes HD mesh import from the start, LOL.
Daz would probably still be valuable enough so that somebody will want to buy it. Just look at Poser. While it may be staggering around like a zombie, the fact remains that Poser is not dead yet. There are some diehard people who refuse to let Poser die, and continue to support it even if it means getting fewer sales than they can selling products for Daz. I can very easily see the same thing happening with Daz Studio if it suddenly went bankrupt. A group of people or website will fight to keep it alive, no matter how zombified it starts to become.
Even if they somehow killed Daz Studio so that software stopped functioning, the assets can be loaded in other applications. Somebody would almost certainly try to create a Daz like software to take its place. And somebody might find a way to hack the old software into working.
Anything could happen, but never underestimate what dedicated people can do when they put their mind to it. There are a lot places that use Daz assets in one way or another, I feel confident somebody would find a way to keep going.
+1000 @outrider42
<sigh> Mumbles, "Apparently, I am a hypocrite." Got a deal, bought the bundle. DON'T LOOK AT ME! <shuffles off, slumped shoulders, hands in pockets>
Hmmm, I've been think about this. I haven't spend much at all this MM because of the steep buy-in requirement for a Genesis generation I'm skipping, and now feel have more store credit than I'm comfortable with. In a way, I feel i'm getting to the point that "enough might be enough", not because I want to stop getting new stuff, but because I don't feel G9 is worth it for me, there are hardly any accurate historical outfits released (which is kind of my thing), the sale buy in requirements just don't work for me and last but not least I'm kind of scared where the future will go:
Considereing the development of where AI is currently going which allows greater control over the output with ControlNet, I can only imagine where it'll be just two years down the line and I expect AI will also be able to make 3D content (it all ready can, but I expect the quality will go up). And is then someone who wants to get in to 3D art really going to invest that much into getting into Daz while there are free AI resources for both stills and animations, while not even having to learn the artistic aspects as well? I really don't see it happening, and how smart is it for me to keep investing in Das assetts if that is the case.
Honestly, it kind of scares me a bit and I catch myself thinking more about strategies how to back my 3D assets recently.
@outrider42: Poser did not have AI as a potential competitor, who is going to make that same decision to invest capital today with the current potential of AI?
I tried to update my characters to future genesises but I have difficulty with getting the faces to look just right. I have a G2M character that no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't port him to G3M. I was, however, successful in porting him to G8M. Do you have any tips on how to port characters over and facially have them look the same?
Would you like to know the secret to buying anything you want in the DAZ store without spending a fortune? Never buy anything that hasn't been released for over a year. It's not easy when it's always the shinny new that inspires you, but everything and I do mean everything here will go onto deep discount at some point in time.
Also, have you noticed how much quality product DAZ gives away each month? Those products were at one time the shinny new thing.
This is very much a "Do as I say, not as I do sorta thing," but there it is.
You don't even have to wait that long. For DOs and the larger vendors, it only takes 2 to 3 months for things to be discounted down to 60% off on a regular rotation.
With tokens, we can get NEW releases for 70% off---even more if we pay with discounted gift card store credit. But the fact that I don't need any of the new releases, and I barely want one of them makes it easy to pass.
was thinking. I reached enough 5 years ago or more
Again, Poser is not even dead yet.
AI might very well kill Daz-Tafi the company long term. But it will not change the dedication that these people have for Daz Studio itself, and as I already said, it will find a way to carry on. Even if AI can do it easier, there will be those who keep using DS in spite of everything.
Hey, if AI can do what I want, then maybe I will use it, too. But AI still presents a lot of obstacles for users, including legal questions, which are still very much undecided. You need a boatload of VRAM to use AI locally. Sure, you can use AI from the cloud, but that means you are limited to whatever the people who own that cloud allow you to do, whether it be censorship or whatever whim they are on at the time. Also, using the AI from a cloud may not allow for copyrights, that alone may be a deal breaker. But using AI locally can be even more demanding than Daz Studio Iray.
If I want to train Dreambooth, I need 24gb of VRAM to do so. Only the absolute highest end gaming GPUs offer that. If I want to make a picture with Stable Diffusion, my 3090 can only push out 2048x2048 pixels at most before its 24gb of VRAM runs out. Meanwhile I have actually rendered the maximum 10,000 by 10,000 pixels that Daz Studio Iray allows. Simply because I could, LOL. You can use GPUs with 6gb of VRAM with SD, but you will be only making pics that are 512x512. I think the novelty would wear off pretty quick if that is all you can do.
We got users and PAs who have been involved with Daz Studio for 20 years. That doesn't just go away because of an AI. A lot of PAs here could be making more money doing something else, but yet they keep doing it. They chose to make stuff for Daz Studio because they enjoy it, it is not just a pay check.
Daz Studio is very niche, but it is a hell of niche for the people who get into it.
AI cannot replace such a community so easily.
From what I've seen in my dabbling, AI can't reliably put four reasonably anatomically correct legs on a dog. It most certainly cannot take the place of a product which allows you absolute control over every asset in a scene, including camera angles, lighting, poses, colors and textures, specific props and attire, etc. I have no doubt AI products can and will improve and I'll be perfectly happy to adapt them as tools when it does. (I already use AI-generated faces for Face Transfer, so it's not like I have a knee-jerk hatred or dismissal of AI.)
People with no investment in art (buying stuff, acquiring skills) can make one-off pretty pictures with AI as it currently exists, and if that provides value and/or pleasure to that person, that's what matters for them. But speaking as someone who fairly recently came to Daz because AI alone cannot yet - and not nearly, from what I've seen to date - create predictable, reproducible, consistent scenes/props/settings/characters, that's why I'm here buying stuff, asking myself if enough is enough.
...a good part of it has to do with slight changes to the mesh and even textures.
a few years ago I had a hard drive meltdown and lost pretty much everything. Before that occurred finally got the my primary character looking lie how I originally imagined her in drawings I did before I started in this 3D thing. Even though I was still working with G3 (which she was built on), I never could get her looking quite the same as i had to rebuild her from scratch. as all the settings were lost as well. Even with GenerationX (which I used in building the original) I still couldn't get a totally accurate match. I even used a jpg of the original render I had as to work with and had to "eyeball" it.best I could.
Porting her to G8 from G3 actually seemed to work better as well, and it seemed a bit more forgiving for creating "less endowed" physiques due to a more diverse selection of characters than G3 had. Still could not exactly replicate the original version that was lost but I am satisfied with the results.
If you have GenerationX2 and Zev0's XTransfer, that could help..
@outrider42: I agree some people would stay dedicated to Daz, but if a influx on new users would be drying up it would be a start of the end. And yes the hardware requirements for the process you are describing are steep, but will they still be in two more years for folks who just want to get into making pretty pictures? Besides there are other AI programs that can upscale images without those VRAM requirements like Topaz Labs Gigapixel. And if you do the calculations, is buying a Nvidia card with 24GB of VRAM (I just checked, I can get a new Gigabyte GeForce RTX 3090 24G for € 1595) just to use AI really more expensive than getting into Daz?
@paulawp (marahzen): Yes that used to by my argument as well, the lack of control, the crazy fingers, but those issues have been resolved with the development with ControlNet, ComfyUI and AINodes it seems, and we are only at the start of this.
Now, I'm not a fan of AI, that is not a secret. I dislike the enviromental impactt, the ignoring of artists wishes when AI models are trained, the likely slow down of artistic development in grahpical arts. And getting the light just right or stubling upon a great composition in Daz is one of the best feelings ever IMO, but I do worry for the Daz ecosystem which I love. This does make me wonder sometimes (and increasingly so) if "enough is enough" concering my purchases, and does make me very picky. I very much hope Daz will find a way to prosper the coming years, but I think there are major challenges ahead.
i think I've finally reached my limit of products and will stick to my 70% off criteria. I've been tryng to render stuff lately and finding my creativity is pretty much gone. My wishlist items seem to be stuck at 40$ off, 50% off if you buy two or more in the daily PA thing, but I'm not biting anymore. Its weird though becasue for every product I buy I see this vision of what I can do with it, but then when I buy it that vision fades right away and I dont bother. why spend more on stuff that doesn;t get used? Way back when V1,2,3,and especially 4 came out it was a new thing. I think that new exciting feeling has worn off for me. Maybe it had long ago, and is the reason I'm a collector instead of an artist.
for me 80% is the new grab fast but even then I am choosy
I'll admit... When I got into this, I started slow. Spent just enough to feel like I could get started and make a few scenes I liked and then... When I realized I did really enjoy it, I went a little crazy. Spent WAY too much for a while. Now, I've noticed that when I review a sale or grab bag or something... I don't need to grab as much. I fill in from my wishlist, I buy a new product when I see it and get excited by it, and occasionally I get the urge to buy a thing I don't need but just kinda like.
G9 has been a good thing for my wallet. I really don't like the G9 model much at all (personal preferences, etc. Move along) so it's been easy for me to only dip my toe in those waters. I've picked up a few to keep looking at them but for the most part, I find that my spending has really leveled off and I'm not as rushed to buy something new.
I think Ai 'art' will grind to a halt when someone writes a script to cycle through all the possible combination of keywords and produces every possible picture it can create. After that there's nothing left to do with it.
It will take a while before the computing power is afordable to create all those images, but like you said ,the technology is 'improving' month on month.
I'm kind of reminded of those programs, like 'The Last One' which were hyped up to be capable of creating any program you could want. It was all smoke and mirrors...
I am pretty sure all the AI algos have a lot of randomisation built into their engines, so even if you can come up with a full set of possible phrases, you would have to run then all a near infinite number of times to generate all the unique images.
I think the problem is that DAZ keeps churning out the same stuff for every generation and if you've been here a while you already have everything you need in every genre they've offered. DAZ and PAs don't seem to want to create anything too niche because they're afraid it won't sell well. But I'm moving in the direction of only buying things I don't already have which is a rare find. Most PAs who do create interesting original looking characters tend to go in the horror genre which I'm not into. I do like some of Oso's animal products that are quirky and refreshing if not too much in the horror area but it's really hard to find anything really new and original in the store. I would love to see new imaginative creatures that are cute or beautiful and not horror and can mix well with other existing characters. More cute animals with good expressions, more really stylized characters that are not horror or monsters but can blend with other characters so it's not completely recognizable and you can still morph it. That's what I was hoping G9 would be but it's actually no different from G8, just worse for human characters. I'm still waiting for the promise that G9 can be anything when already G8F was made into a hedgehog!