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What is the point of the 91x91 Tip Files in some Zeddicuss pose sets?

HavosHavos Posts: 5,366
in The Commons

What is the point of 91x91 Tip Files in Pose Sets??

I recently took advantage of a banner offering me a decent discount on Zeddicus products. I know almost all their pose sets do not have tip files, but recent sets do have them, as I believe DAZ had a policy change requiring PAs to add tips to their products. Since most of the ones I bought are fairly recent, I was pleased to see about half had tip files, but I was very dismayed to see that the tip files are the same size as the standard png images provided. Indeed the tip files are just duplicates of the 91x91 images.

Is there any point to such tip files, other than wasting bandwidth and hard drive space? Anyone else encountered this pointless tip files?

 

Comments

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,943
    edited October 2023

    I guess the point is that they also have other information than the image.  Those with small images are probably older products from before they started using larger images.

    Post edited by Taoz on
  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,943
    edited October 2023

    BTW, I don't recall I've ever seen any icons without tip files, even one of the oldest products I have (SKU 38) has them, though not with an image.  I imagine that DS generates them automatically from the data present and if there isn't any image you just get the text info.

    Post edited by Taoz on
  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,366

    Taoz said:

    BTW, I don't recall I've ever seen any icons without tip files, even one of the oldest products I have (SKU 38) has them, though not with an image.  I imagine that DS generates them automatically from the data present and if there isn't any image you just get the text info.

    Are you sure we are talking about the same files? I am talking about the second image that comes with a duf file, so that it ends in .tip.png. Almost all older products (ie 3-4 years and older) have no tips at all, I am sure SKU 38 had no tips, as I doubt they even existed in DS at that time.

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 7,006
    edited October 2023

    Havos said:

    What is the point of 91x91 Tip Files in Pose Sets??

    I recently took advantage of a banner offering me a decent discount on Zeddicus products. I know almost all their pose sets do not have tip files, but recent sets do have them, as I believe DAZ had a policy change requiring PAs to add tips to their products. Since most of the ones I bought are fairly recent, I was pleased to see about half had tip files, but I was very dismayed to see that the tip files are the same size as the standard png images provided. Indeed the tip files are just duplicates of the 91x91 images.

    Is there any point to such tip files, other than wasting bandwidth and hard drive space? Anyone else encountered this pointless tip files?

     

    I checked quite a few latest products, from 90507 to 92011... normal png is 91x91 and tip png is 256x256. There seems no problem but Expression Presets have no tip.png...I don't know why. Actually from their 1st G9 pose package - 87431 (https://www.daz3d.com/z-fun-summer-time-for-genesis-9), tip.png are all 256x256...

    But yes... agreed, it's pointless if there're both normal + tip.png there but with same size.

    Post edited by crosswind on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 101,051

    Havos said:

    Taoz said:

    BTW, I don't recall I've ever seen any icons without tip files, even one of the oldest products I have (SKU 38) has them, though not with an image.  I imagine that DS generates them automatically from the data present and if there isn't any image you just get the text info.

    Are you sure we are talking about the same files? I am talking about the second image that comes with a duf file, so that it ends in .tip.png. Almost all older products (ie 3-4 years and older) have no tips at all, I am sure SKU 38 had no tips, as I doubt they even existed in DS at that time.

    DS didn't exist at that time.

    As for the original question, I don't know - as far as I know tip files are required, and are required to be 256 pixels square - it maybe worth opening a ticket.

  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,366

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Havos said:

    Taoz said:

    BTW, I don't recall I've ever seen any icons without tip files, even one of the oldest products I have (SKU 38) has them, though not with an image.  I imagine that DS generates them automatically from the data present and if there isn't any image you just get the text info.

    Are you sure we are talking about the same files? I am talking about the second image that comes with a duf file, so that it ends in .tip.png. Almost all older products (ie 3-4 years and older) have no tips at all, I am sure SKU 38 had no tips, as I doubt they even existed in DS at that time.

    DS didn't exist at that time.

    As for the original question, I don't know - as far as I know tip files are required, and are required to be 256 pixels square - it maybe worth opening a ticket.

    It is 3 separate products that had the 91x91 tip files, and although I have a lot of zeddicuss pose sets, and still only have a fraction of those released, so I assume this issue is in a lot more products than the three I have. Here are the three I found in case anyone is interested:

    https://www.daz3d.com/z-ultimate-chair-sitting-pose-collection-for-genesis-8-and-81-female

    https://www.daz3d.com/z-lifting-and-carrying-utility-pose-collection-for-genesis-8-and-81

    https://www.daz3d.com/z-everyday-standing-pose-mega-set-for-genesis-8-and-81-female

     

     

  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,366

    crosswind said:

    Havos said:

    What is the point of 91x91 Tip Files in Pose Sets??

    I recently took advantage of a banner offering me a decent discount on Zeddicus products. I know almost all their pose sets do not have tip files, but recent sets do have them, as I believe DAZ had a policy change requiring PAs to add tips to their products. Since most of the ones I bought are fairly recent, I was pleased to see about half had tip files, but I was very dismayed to see that the tip files are the same size as the standard png images provided. Indeed the tip files are just duplicates of the 91x91 images.

    Is there any point to such tip files, other than wasting bandwidth and hard drive space? Anyone else encountered this pointless tip files?

     

    I checked quite a few latest products, from 90507 to 92011... normal png is 91x91 and tip png is 256x256. There seems no problem but Expression Presets have no tip.png...I don't know why. Actually from their 1st G9 pose package - 87431 (https://www.daz3d.com/z-fun-summer-time-for-genesis-9), tip.png are all 256x256...

    The Genesis 9 (and the combined 8 and 9s) I have also have 256x256 tips, it is the 8/8.1 that are effected, or at least some of them. The sets before those have no tip files at all.

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 7,006

    Havos said:

    crosswind said:

    Havos said:

    What is the point of 91x91 Tip Files in Pose Sets??

    I recently took advantage of a banner offering me a decent discount on Zeddicus products. I know almost all their pose sets do not have tip files, but recent sets do have them, as I believe DAZ had a policy change requiring PAs to add tips to their products. Since most of the ones I bought are fairly recent, I was pleased to see about half had tip files, but I was very dismayed to see that the tip files are the same size as the standard png images provided. Indeed the tip files are just duplicates of the 91x91 images.

    Is there any point to such tip files, other than wasting bandwidth and hard drive space? Anyone else encountered this pointless tip files?

     

    I checked quite a few latest products, from 90507 to 92011... normal png is 91x91 and tip png is 256x256. There seems no problem but Expression Presets have no tip.png...I don't know why. Actually from their 1st G9 pose package - 87431 (https://www.daz3d.com/z-fun-summer-time-for-genesis-9), tip.png are all 256x256...

    The Genesis 9 (and the combined 8 and 9s) I have also have 256x256 tips, it is the 8/8.1 that are effected, or at least some of them. The sets before those have no tip files at all.

    Yeah, you're right. I double-checked some, most of them have no tip.png but a few packages have, and with such an issue of 'same size'. We may reasonably suggest - if there're no 'rendered big size tip.png', pls DO NOT include the same size ones in the package. smiley

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,943
    edited October 2023

    Havos said:

    Taoz said:

    BTW, I don't recall I've ever seen any icons without tip files, even one of the oldest products I have (SKU 38) has them, though not with an image.  I imagine that DS generates them automatically from the data present and if there isn't any image you just get the text info.

    Are you sure we are talking about the same files? I am talking about the second image that comes with a duf file, so that it ends in .tip.png. Almost all older products (ie 3-4 years and older) have no tips at all, I am sure SKU 38 had no tips, as I doubt they even existed in DS at that time.

    I'm talking about those yellow tooltips you see when you hover the mouse pointer over a preset icon in DS.  See screenshot, which shows one of the products you linked to (left) and another product which has larger images, plus the SKU 38 product. 

    AFAICS the small 91x91 ones (*.png) are the old ones and the *.tip.png are new larger ones which DS shows in the tooltip if they are present, otherwise it shows the old *.png ones.  The SKU 38 also has a tooltip like all presets AFAIK have, but no image (the preset images are .rsr files which DS apparently don't show in the tooltip).

    zed-tips1.png
    1504 x 730 - 271K
    Post edited by Taoz on
  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,366

    Taoz said:

    Havos said:

    Taoz said:

    BTW, I don't recall I've ever seen any icons without tip files, even one of the oldest products I have (SKU 38) has them, though not with an image.  I imagine that DS generates them automatically from the data present and if there isn't any image you just get the text info.

    Are you sure we are talking about the same files? I am talking about the second image that comes with a duf file, so that it ends in .tip.png. Almost all older products (ie 3-4 years and older) have no tips at all, I am sure SKU 38 had no tips, as I doubt they even existed in DS at that time.

    I'm talking about those yellow tooltips you see when you hover the mouse pointer over a preset icon in DS.  See screenshot, which shows one of the products you linked to (left) and another product which has larger images, plus the SKU 38 product. 

    AFAICS the small 91x91 ones (*.png) are the old ones and the *.tip.png are new larger ones which DS shows in the tooltip if they are present, otherwise it shows the old *.png ones.  The SKU 38 also has a tooltip like all presets AFAIK have, but no image (the preset images are .rsr files which DS apparently don't show in the tooltip).

    I was only refering to the image tip (ie the file that should be 256x256). The text shown on the tip is plucked from the .duf file (or .dsf for older stuff) so should be present for all products.

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,943

    Havos said:

    I was only refering to the image tip (ie the file that should be 256x256). The text shown on the tip is plucked from the .duf file (or .dsf for older stuff) so should be present for all products.

    Yes, as far as I get from the discussion the issue is that some products have tips which are 91x91 only, which of course make them redundant.

  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,697
    I do think that the 256px square .tip image size needs reconsideration. With current screen DPI's, even 256 square is a bit on the small side. Going to 512px has long struck me as sensible, with a size of 256 in the other direction if a 2:1 aspect ratio is appropriate for what is being illustrated. Regards, Richard.
  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,366

    richardandtracy said:

    I do think that the 256px square .tip image size needs reconsideration. With current screen DPI's, even 256 square is a bit on the small side. Going to 512px has long struck me as sensible, with a size of 256 in the other direction if a 2:1 aspect ratio is appropriate for what is being illustrated. Regards, Richard.

    I agree, I would be happier with the larger size too. The tip files I create myself are typically 400x400 or 512x512. DS seems to handle the bigger size without issue.

    However 256x256 is still far better than 91x91, and for most products, including poses, is big enough to give you a good idea of what will happen when you select them.

  • FirstBastionFirstBastion Posts: 7,764
    edited October 2023

    Havos said:

    I agree, I would be happier with the larger size too. The tip files I create myself are typically 400x400 or 512x512. DS seems to handle the bigger size without issue.

    However 256x256 is still far better than 91x91, and for most products, including poses, is big enough to give you a good idea of what will happen when you select them.

     Agreed!   I routinely re-render tip files to 512 x 512 on products I buy,  cause these tired old eyes need all the help they can get.  

    Post edited by FirstBastion on
  • RL_MediaRL_Media Posts: 339

    richardandtracy said:

    I do think that the 256px square .tip image size needs reconsideration. With current screen DPI's, even 256 square is a bit on the small side. Going to 512px has long struck me as sensible, with a size of 256 in the other direction if a 2:1 aspect ratio is appropriate for what is being illustrated. Regards, Richard.

    I usually make my own tip files for everything these days, and make em 1k sized

  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,697
    1k is big. Might cause a significant size increase in the distro size for a pose pack. Will think about it for my freebies. Regards, Richard
  • RL_MediaRL_Media Posts: 339
    edited October 2023

    yeah, probably a bit overkill for a pose lol. I usually don't bother unless it's somethin crazy pose that you can't get the jist of withhout it bein decent sized. It's more for characters and clothings that I need to see some details lol

    Post edited by RL_Media on
  • chanurchanur Posts: 47
    edited October 2023
    For me it is right the opposite. At one point I deleted all the tip-files just to save space on my harddrive. But meanwhile I reload more and more tip-files for poses back to my runtime because it helps my old eyes to find the pose I'm looking for. For characters and clothes etc. I have the jpgs or pngs in full size from wherever I downloaded them
    Post edited by chanur on
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