Is this the new standard?

Are we looking at the new standard for character and outfits with the HM Katya and HM Lightstaker outfit? A base character with only its skin, if you want makup that up until now has been an included feature is now an add on which almost triples the price to add the makeup and skin detail? Add it all up and you are paying $73 for just a character when it isn't on sale! The outfit is the same way at $104 if you are wanting the suit boots and accessories together and the only option to buy the suit all at once is to buy it in a bundle with the character. I would expect this with daz originals when they are offered within the daz original price range but when it makes a character's cost soar into a bundle price it feels a bit extreme. 

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Comments

  • no noseno nose Posts: 297

    I don't even care about the character, I just want the outfit. Why can't it either be it's own bundle or at least not seperated into three products?

  • PitmaticPitmatic Posts: 762

    I will be honest I dont care for either but I dont like the idea of splitting the characters skin and makeup out like that when they should be with the charcter and not a premium add on.

  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,184

    Pitmatic said:

    I will be honest I dont care for either but I dont like the idea of splitting the characters skin and makeup out like that when they should be with the charcter and not a premium add on.

    This is my biggest issue as well, it is setting a very customer unfriendly precedent for future character offerings.  

  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,184

    no nose said:

    I don't even care about the character, I just want the outfit. Why can't it either be it's own bundle or at least not seperated into three products?

    I agree this feels more like a way to charge more for a product while trying to make it look affordable.  

  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 2,404

    shadowhawk1 said:

    Pitmatic said:

    I will be honest I dont care for either but I dont like the idea of splitting the characters skin and makeup out like that when they should be with the charcter and not a premium add on.

    This is my biggest issue as well, it is setting a very customer unfriendly precedent for future character offerings.  

    I agree with both of you. 

  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,184

    Torquinox said:

    shadowhawk1 said:

    Pitmatic said:

    I will be honest I dont care for either but I dont like the idea of splitting the characters skin and makeup out like that when they should be with the charcter and not a premium add on.

    This is my biggest issue as well, it is setting a very customer unfriendly precedent for future character offerings.  

    I agree with both of you. 

     I get that G9 can be either a male or female character but this feels like a it is really exploiting that. 

  • mwokeemwokee Posts: 1,275
    edited March 2023
    It's been about three years now from a sudden jump in prices and disappointing sales and deals. So yeah its the new standard.
    Post edited by mwokee on
  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 2,404
    For me, it is one more reason to live in the back catalog. Still plenty of stuff G8 and below that catches my eye and goes easy on my wallet.
  • I was concerned myself. But look at a recent G9 character like Mousso's Lorienne or similar characters, and they seem to have eye colours, lip colours and make-up for $21.99. So, this may be a one off or not. I think the status should be 'Condition: Insufficient evidence so far'.

    Regards,

    Richard

     

  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,184

    richardandtracy said:

    I was concerned myself. But look at a recent G9 character like Mousso's Lorienne or similar characters, and they seem to have eye colours, lip colours and make-up for $21.99. So, this may be a one off or not. I think the status should be 'Condition: Insufficient evidence so far'.

    Regards,

    Richard

     

    The thing is the character you are using as an example is complete for the $21.99 If you want this character you have to buy three parts individually with a price of over $70 if you get it at its regular price. So it seems that there is more than enough sufficient evidence so far. 

  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,184

    mwokee said:

    It's been about three years now from a sudden jump in prices and disappointing sales and deals. So yeah its the new standard.

    I think the are adding a hew chapter to what you are discribing. :(  

  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,184

    Torquinox said:

    For me, it is one more reason to live in the back catalog. Still plenty of stuff G8 and below that catches my eye and goes easy on my wallet.

     Just another reason to invest $0.00 into G9 

  • ColinFrenchColinFrench Posts: 620

    richardandtracy said:

    I was concerned myself. But look at a recent G9 character like Mousso's Lorienne or similar characters, and they seem to have eye colours, lip colours and make-up for $21.99.

    As a PA, Mousso is known for providing more value with her characters. Even back in the G8 days she always seemed to include some extra bits and features to provide a more complete package. I always appreciated it.

  • Well there are such and such.

    Take DOrdiales DO June. Comes with lots of skin options, expressions and even render settings. Nice package for a reasonable price.

    And then there are those current (mega) bundles which have beards, eyebrows, makeups, tattoos and accessories as dedicated products leading one to believe that there is more value included than there actually is. Sure, every single bit takes time to create but I was used to get much more included than there is nowadays.

    But well, not different from consumer goods in supermarkets. Either increase the price or make the package smaller. Or both.

  • RawArtRawArt Posts: 5,731
    edited March 2023

    Products made by individual PA's are not an indication of any standard.

    PA's will often experiment with different ways of packaging products to see how well they do in the marketplace, and see what is appreciated by customers and what isnt.

    Every product we make is a market study.

     

    Post edited by RawArt on
  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,184

    Rod Wise Driggo said:

    Well there are such and such.

    Take DOrdiales DO June. Comes with lots of skin options, expressions and even render settings. Nice package for a reasonable price.

    And then there are those current (mega) bundles which have beards, eyebrows, makeups, tattoos and accessories as dedicated products leading one to believe that there is more value included than there actually is. Sure, every single bit takes time to create but I was used to get much more included than there is nowadays.

    But well, not different from consumer goods in supermarkets. Either increase the price or make the package smaller. Or both.

    I remember the old mega bundles where you actually got more bang for your buck, but now it is hard to even justify breaking even when buying a bundle. 

  • TimbalesTimbales Posts: 2,221
    It looks like it's the standard for that vendor, based on their store page. It's nothing I'm interested in, so I'm not particularly bothered.
  • takezo_3001takezo_3001 Posts: 1,914

    I'll stick with Mousso's characters, as I don't buy these bundles as they're too expensive for a one-off purchase for my puny wallet!

  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,184

    takezo_3001 said:

    I'll stick with Mousso's characters, as I don't buy these bundles as they're too expensive for a one-off purchase for my puny wallet!

    At this point any PA's characters are a better deal than this one! And yes way to much for what you get in this bundle for the price 

  • benniewoodellbenniewoodell Posts: 1,885

    I usually buy HM's stuff, but this is the second release that everything is separate and I won't do it. Not the end of the world since it's G9 and I'm barely buying anything for this generation, but even if it was G8 I'd be like nope, this is where I draw the line. 

  • benniewoodell said:

    I usually buy HM's stuff, but this is the second release that everything is separate and I won't do it. Not the end of the world since it's G9 and I'm barely buying anything for this generation, but even if it was G8 I'd be like nope, this is where I draw the line. 

    I thought there had been more sets that that with an unusual degree of splitting. It does have the benefit of allowing a pick-and-mix approach if there are parts you want and others you don't, and there is an extra discount for people who have purchased a number of previous products from the PA.

  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,184

    Richard Haseltine said:

    benniewoodell said:

    I usually buy HM's stuff, but this is the second release that everything is separate and I won't do it. Not the end of the world since it's G9 and I'm barely buying anything for this generation, but even if it was G8 I'd be like nope, this is where I draw the line. 

    I thought there had been more sets that that with an unusual degree of splitting. It does have the benefit of allowing a pick-and-mix approach if there are parts you want and others you don't, and there is an extra discount for people who have purchased a number of previous products from the PA.

    I get that this PA does that with clothing kits and in a way I can see where you are coming from given the offerings in the past from other vendors, but they were generally at a far cheaper price than this and I believe the larger issue here is the splitting of a characters materials and forcing someone to double and triple the price of other G9 characters currently offered. 

  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 2,404

    shadowhawk1 said:

    Torquinox said:

    For me, it is one more reason to live in the back catalog. Still plenty of stuff G8 and below that catches my eye and goes easy on my wallet.

     Just another reason to invest $0.00 into G9 

    +1! It's true, I still haven't even downloaded the G9 essentials.

  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,184

    Torquinox said:

    shadowhawk1 said:

    Torquinox said:

    For me, it is one more reason to live in the back catalog. Still plenty of stuff G8 and below that catches my eye and goes easy on my wallet.

     Just another reason to invest $0.00 into G9 

    +1! It's true, I still haven't even downloaded the G9 essentials.

    Neither have I, and the only reason I have installed G8 is so that I can convert clothing and poses to G3. wink

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,878

    So, you don't use anything post G3... ... why do you care about how G9 is sold?

    It's not like any new G3 is being made, so even in the impossible situation where Daz enforces this as a new required standard, it would have no impact on you whatsoever.

     

  • benniewoodellbenniewoodell Posts: 1,885

    Richard Haseltine said:

    benniewoodell said:

    I usually buy HM's stuff, but this is the second release that everything is separate and I won't do it. Not the end of the world since it's G9 and I'm barely buying anything for this generation, but even if it was G8 I'd be like nope, this is where I draw the line. 

    I thought there had been more sets that that with an unusual degree of splitting. It does have the benefit of allowing a pick-and-mix approach if there are parts you want and others you don't, and there is an extra discount for people who have purchased a number of previous products from the PA.

    Oh, I agree with you that in general I'm very much for splitting the clothes and accessories up for folks who don't want it all. Like I never buy HM shoes or weapons because I'll never use them, but I always get the character, outfit, and hair. But with the past two releases, I'm putting my foot down because now I have to buy the character, HD add-on, AND the makeup? No, the makeup is the line and I'm not picking anything up then. I get charging for the HD, DO's have been doing it this whole time, but the makeup should come with the character. And it's only like 3 bucks less than the character itself? I have that 10% off banner, but it won't even put a dent in the cost of that makeup separation. 

  • SapphireBlueSapphireBlue Posts: 823
    edited March 2023

    Just wanted to put in a good word for HM. I recently used one of his 8.1 characters and outfits across several renders for a project and I was blown away by his character's HD detail, the creative makeup and the amazing quality and detail of his outfit (from wrinkles, scratches and wear and textures). He has a tendency to put a lot of detail into his work. And I don't think I see that same quality across all PA's characters, skin detail, makeup or outfits, even if they had been priced similarly before.

    So I can imagine, as RawArt said, that's he taking a look what might be a better way to package his work for him and people who are interested in it, to take various factors into account. He may not stick with this packaging option, but I don't know if that makes it a new standard.

    And of course, we don't need to buy it if we're not interested. I'm not a fan myself of separating everything out like this, and most of the new stuff including HM's is beyond my DAZ budget or interest at present, but I felt like saying something. (Oh, HM has also been very generous in putting his products and bundles up for the grab bag sales after some time, which is how I first knew of him and amassed my HM collection.)

    Post edited by SapphireBlue on
  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,294

    I think the main reason the add on skin is a separate purchase is that this is an 8K skin. In addition, unlike V9, this is a full set of 8K skin textures, not just an 8K normal map to add macro details. 

    Whether you want that, or have the PC power to handle an 8K skin is another matter, but I think this is the first full 8K skin in the store, but I could be wrong and one has already been released.

     

  • PixelSploitingPixelSploiting Posts: 871
    edited March 2023

    This is the second 8k skin in the store.

    Previous character release from this PA also was split like this.

     

    Edit:

    This piecemealing is pointless. Makeup should be sold with the character because G9 makeups are often made to the specific head shape and I have previous character sold with similar split - makeups only work on her anyway.

    It's not that this is more expensive, it costs about as much as characters sold with makeup. But it's too much spam in the product library.

     

     

    Edit: Making 8k skin textures into a separate addon is something I do understand. Not everyone will need them and it's an increased download size.

     

    Post edited by PixelSploiting on
  • I actually like HM's characters. Outfits, not so much.  And I wouldn't even mind paying for the separate makeup if there were simply MORE options, more VALUE, in those separate packs. This current situation just feels wrong to me. I seldom put my money where it feels wrong. 

    Wishlisted and waiting for a sale. Even then, on principle alone, I may decide not to reward this type of marketing. NOT a fan of it at all.

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