suggestion: automated 24h test "before buy" system
Ellessarr
Posts: 1,390
ok, before of all i know which we do have a 30 days refund system which they do refund even in credit card and all and they are really amazing at it no complains, really the system reallys works perfect on that way but...
Could be good to have another automated system where the person can order a product then he get a 24h time before the transaction be full confirmed where he could after test the product cancel the trade and give back the product without have to go all the way to the refund which sometimes while work perfect could take sometime to be finished then like a "test drive" then if the product proof not being good for what he want then he just give back in a very fast way without have to go all the way to ask for the refund, if the product proof to be good then the only way to cancel after the 24h is go the refund work.
For peoples like me it could be very helpfull, currently i'm trying to find the best products here to my "type of work" and sometimes i need to "mass" buy many products to test or others times just need to put my hands in some products to see if they can be usefull and while again it work perfect and nice", use the refund system can be a little tedious and sometimes can be sound as a "bad action from the customer" if him feel having to cancel many products at same time since it can give some trouble, then have a chance to "test it" before buy" could be nice.
It could be "platinum memberships" only if needed no problem for me with that but it could be very helpfull, specially in some cases where you just need a few minutes to see if the product is good for you or no, like you buy then go test and find which it not worked as you wanted then could be good be able to "fast give back" without go all the trouble of refund.
Again i'm not saying which refund is bad, i'm just saying which could be good to have another and more fast secondary way to deal with that, that could be very helpfull for peoples which where in doubt if what they are looking for to buy is really good for what they want cuz sometimes some products does really looks like "perfect" at first sight then only after buy it or go forum and others ways to find info about it which you cold see if it was good or no, then having that sort of system could help a lot.
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Comments
IMO this would be an abuse of the return policy. I would gather that of everyone that has asked for a refund, many of them still have the product installed which is not how it is supposed to work. IMO a customer should feel bad about returning to many products. There is enough info out there and in the forums to make an informed decision. I also feel that if a user purchases a product with the goal of using it in another program not directly supported by DAZ, such as Blender or 3DSMax and it doesn't work like they expect, then that would be on them because they knew going into it that the asset was developed and sold to work as intended inside Daz Studio and they were talking the chance using it elsewhere.
Doing work in the game industry and time on the internet has shown me that this would be a very bad idea for DAZ and legit customers.
DAZ could try a subscription model, but the price would have to be pretty steep to get a return on investment and many users already complain about prices even though DAZ is much cheaper than the market value prices shown at regular 3d sites like turbosquid or CGTrader.
I don't understand the reasoning behind this. IMO it just wouldn't be manageable and would potentially add more issues to the payment system. Some individuals buy bundles of products; especially if its during a sale, so its not like they're going to be able to exhaustively test everything out in a 24-hour period, even with a case of Redbull. This is why they have the 30-day refund system.
not totally accurace many products i'm still having issues with lack of info and keep asking into the forum also is how you sell things by saying "go ask others about it", for what i read at the beginner daz was more fore work inside aas just render but as the things improve they started to make it more and more "game enginers friend" because they wanted it to be used outside that is one of the reasons for interactive license, some peoples already used or are using daz products in they projects.
and srry but i disagree, it's depende for what you are looking, if is just "for render" then i would totally agree with here is really pretty cheap, but when comes to work outside, it can be expensive as many others places or even more, like to be able to start with one character here you need to expend at last 100 buckets for a base genesis then we gonna need a lot of others things like morphs, skins and cloths then it can go expensive pretty fast specially because of the license prices which normally in some cases at last for me are overpriced specially when is about a single piece of cloth instead of a full set, but that is not the point
actually took for me just few hours to teste like over 30 produts which i purchuased to get what worked and what not and it just after jhave bought it, then i had to ask refund for almost half of it because some just bugged in unreal while others did not worked as i wanted then would be much better to be able to test everything.
some basic bugs or even just problem can be easy spot in just few minutes of use.
and to be fair i do really feel bad to have to go refund because i really wanted to use that things but as soon they proof not bing usable in the way i want i would not keep then just "for losing money" then srry for that "you must feel bad and don't give back sort of mind, if i do feel the product is not really working as i wanted and the system allow me to refund i will do that.
that is why i had bought it in first place, otherwise i would never had bought it ( at last the big ammount),
if the fear is "abuse" you can put a limit like you can only use it once per 24h or per week or month and limit the ammount you can return like a max of 10 stuffs or something like that, it could avoid any abuse or exploit, all is needed is just think in a way it can work.
here a exemple of how it can be done:
must be a platinum member
you can only use it once per week
when at the cart you get a "trial option" where you can download the stuff the process will be placed in a waiting status, you can have a max of 6 stuffs in your cart, then you have a max of 24h time to go back to that trade and confirm if you want to proceed or not, if you say not then you follow the same pattern of refund and delete the stuffs in your daz and the transaction is canceled normally, if pass 24h and you don't give any confirmation them the transaction is automatically canceled and you must delete the things as the refund, if you confirm which you want to keep the stuffs then you are normally placed in the normal options for the transaction and now the only way you can have a refund is using the 30days refund police.
it can avoid abuses since the user will be limited by the number of times he can use it and by the number of stuffs each time he want to use.
I would love this! There are so many times I've not purchased something because I would only use them in my webcomic once, this way I could have them for free!
And I could create background images without buying the required products!
And billboards for later use.
Or transfer the downloaded files to my graphics computer which never goes online!
This would save me a ton of money!
Okay, okay, I'm kidding. Yeah, I don't see any benefit for DAZ, and lots of possible abuse. I don't think it's a viable idea.
The only way I could see something like this possibly working is if were to involve Connect (and I say this as someone who has never used Connect and installs by hand).
And would it be any more popular with the majority of the user base than the idea of encryption. A product which lasts only 24 hours on your sytem before it stops working ??????? Really ???????????? so I buy a whole lot of stuff in a sale. I have others things to do as well, I don't get round to downloading, installing and checking out my purchases and suddenly they don't work anyway.
Oh yes I can see this being very popular.
I didn't say I thought it was a good idea, even with Connect as a safeguard... (assuming it could be that, of course)
That wasnt directed at you specifically, but at the whole idea.
I just cannot see how anything like this could possibly work out.
what the part about "being a option" you don't get???, or about being limited the number of products, with a limite of 6 stuff per week even if that 6 where all pro bundles is impossible you don't have time to test all in 24, and as i told you can only do that once per week, if peoples still see it too much then once per 15 days or once per month, lik once per 15 you have 8 stuffs once per month 10 stuffs and it will be a option where you can choose to use or not, you are not obligated to use then if you choose to use them this means which you are supposed to have time to test it because you know you have 24h to do and many basic issues you normally don't need more than few minutes to catch and some basic problem can be enough for you to not want, then if you find out which they are not good you just go and cancel the sale and get only what worked in a new one where you have to use the normal refund system.
And i gonna say i really don't know if the peoples here are thinking which i'm being a crap person and want to exploit but for sure i'm really learning here "how to be a crap person" in the way peoples are "display about how to be crap and exploiter lol"
and about the "exploit and get itens for free and bla bla bla, if is about being crap you can already pretty much do all that things peoples already are complaining the current system already allow that the fact which you can refund already allow you do that if is about being all crap.
The problem is that even though most people are not "crap people" there are quite a few who are, and if you give them an easier way to be one they'll definitely exploit it. There's already lots of problems with piracy and that would only increase them as people who already don't respect the rules by sharing the products they buy would now have the ability to get some products without even paying for them - because unless you implement a system to delete or somehow stop the products working if that order is not confirmed (which would definitely not be well received by customers) you can be sure they won't confirm those orders but will keep the products anyway...
Honnestly it would be a nightmare to implement and manage (especially if you have to put limits on how many products you can get and how often you can use the system as you suggested), could generate lots of problems with the store and payment systems when they already have more than enough of those, and I don't really see a gain for the customers beside those who would be interested in abusing the system.
well for my case can be a big handle, because as i told in others posts, "not every" product really work or can be used as i want, for exemple i had made those thays some big boughts from the store to use in unreal but in the end i ended finding which many of that products don't really worked as i wanted or i get some bugs, like some wing which ended not working on unreal because they have some "dupliicated bones" and unreal don't work with that and after see some posts i ended finding which the ammount of work i would need to do to fix it would not pay for itslef since it not 100% and have a big chance of really don't work and i ended need to refund the product along with others with a sort of same problem, i've basically ended having to give back half of what i've bought in the refund and while it worked perfect again no complains and is really a amazing team the time it can take to be done could be a little too much like for me it ended taking like a little more than one week, now i'm looking to buy some stuffs but i'm not sure if they can work specially because in some cases when i looked for answers i ended getting mixed answers like "for me it worked" for me not worked and bla bla bla, then the only real best way to know if it could work is testing by myself and it could really work for that cases to have a way to put my hands on that products do a fast 1h or 2 hours at worst test then if things worked i keep the product if not worked then i will give back, then buy a product then in the next 2 hour go to refund(which don't work on weekenda).
This also could help the refund since the refund system itself is not a 24h system and don't work on weekends(yeah they are humans and need rest too and have a life for sure no crunch and that crap things) that is when a more "automated system could help to deal with many refunds.
this is from a user using it outside DAZ, while inside daz it would be really meanless outside daz it could help a lot.
But i can understand the peoples fears here for sure it would be a easy thing to add.
Easy to add, even easier to exploit in sooo many ways.
1.) The refund system is already exploited to an extent and doesn't exist on other 3D sites.
2.) People may only need an item for one render, which can be done easily in a 24 hour peroid. "Test" it out, knock out your render, done. Didn't have to pay anything even though what your doing is illegal since you didn't pay for it to use the license of a product. But who's going to enforce that or even know you exploited it, no one. That's how easy it is to exploit.
3.) Even if Daz incorporates some kind of code to disable a product, a third-party site can give away a app that overwrites the code. Once the files are on your computer, the customer owns the product for life (no way you could argue the opposite).
4.) The files could also be exported into another 3D app, and re-imported back into daz as your own files and bravo, you just cheated the system because daz studio regconizes the files as your own original content.
The main problem is the Daz customer base is small making it hard for artist to make a quality product and get a return on investment. If Daz wants to continue to compete with the 3D market of other sites, prices need to go up if anything. Products here at Daz are insanely cheap compared to the rest of 3D market, usually only 25% of the cost if sold else where. I'm so surprised Daz doesn't make competitive ads against the rest of 3d market by displaying how cheap their stuff is. Not only are the base prices very low, the stuff is at least 40% off half of the time. On top of all that, Daz takes a very large portion of the profits compared to other markets that only take around 10%.
When looking at introducing new things to make it easier/cheaper for customers to get their hands on products you need to look at how it will impact the content creators. I think the exact opposite needs to happen. Prices need to shoot way up, price sales need to happen a lot less often. But what it would do though is bring over a lot more quality content creators to create content for Daz since they can sell their work for the same price as competing sites. More quality content would then bring over a bigger audience resulting in a bigger market in the end.
This probably won't happen though because it would instantly scare away customers from the model they have established here resulting in a huge decline in sales, possibly sinking the company during the slump of change. One way to counter this is to allow each artist to set their own prices (regardless of price) and control their own price sales.
I could only see bad coming from the try for free idea.
the prices thing i'm really gonna disagree a little because when only for render it is really cheap no doubts about it, when comes to the "interactive license i really do feel it in some cases a bit of "expensive", because as i told before you can easy for exemple find 2 different products like let's say just a exemple(just a figurative exemple) you can find let's say a bikini and let's say while the normal price cost let's say 15 buckets but the "interactive license cost let's say 35 or 50 then you go look into another product which is a full set outift with boots, lower body uper body and some "extras like in armor cases then you look at the price, it's 25 buckets but the interactive license is also 35 or 50, buckets that is when comes the problem for me, peoples trying to use it outside the DAZ it could be really, really expensive, because "sales for interactive licenses are really rare" and some products licenses does looks more expensive than what they where supposed to be when comparing with others products with the same price and in some cases the "base price" is almost the same making the one small looking a lot expensive when comparing with another one with more materials, that is really my only issue here, because while for render it's indeed a very cheap price when comes for peoples trying to use it outside it can look a lot expensive in some cases, to be clear i'm not trying to say which others artisits works are bad or something like that but when you have 2 different products where you can see ones with more things inside being basically in the same price of the one small it make it really look expensive, that is my problem that disparity in the interacitve licence between some products.
but again i understand some peoples issues with that idea no problem as i told it's just a suggestion if peoples don't like fine no problem.
Render only or not, the same amount of work is required out of the artist to create the content as content found on other sites. Other sites offer products designed to be used for games so some of the focus is shifted but... the amount of work is still the same. Much of stuff built for games could not hold up in quality renders here at daz and the same goes for many products here at daz cannot be used for games. One should not be seen as more worthy of a higher price than others because the same amount of work and time is needed to create a product for either purpose. In the end, Daz products should cost even more (in my eyes) because it's easier to make money from Daz Products doing renders (for stock imagery, books, websites, etc) than it is using 3d assets to develop a game. So much of Daz products has been seen on stock websites, on book covers, websites etc but how many of their products have you seen in games?
Interactive licenses may be more expensive than the product's base price but still much cheaper than competiting sites. The new interactive license model also doesn't work to bridge the gap as they are very, very rarely purchased and most users will just buy the base product and still use it for purposes that the interactive license exists.
Other 3D apps can render but do not feature their own line of products like daz studio. Also Daz Studio has a large appeal to new 3D artists because the software is easy to learn and already comes with a library of free stuff to use and experiment with. That's the appeal of Daz Studio that it needs to stick to.
i tink tht is the problem which while theDAZ itself team is trying themselfs to go for the "game developer market" the fact which we still have few resources for that or which most of the resources are not for that is what make hard to have more peoples sticking with daz to work with games, you do have some few cases like a triple AAA game which was mading using DAZ genesis 3 (don't remember now the name) and the fact which the interacitve license can be expensive in some cases can make hard for that sort of peoples come full here, if start to be more friendly to that peoples you could be the increase of the market from that peoples, because game developing is nowdays one of the big markets and getting a lot of moneys and due to how expensive can be to start something you can still see peoples sticking with things like CC fuse, not only due to prices but also design, if more artits trying to make some more "game dev friendly products" or at last a "game friendly version" it could rise for sure the peoples coming to buy, like making a "normal version of the cloth or character with all the hundred or thousando of polygons then make the "more game friend version" using retopology a little more work but it could maybe pay itself later.
I think the thing here is more like while the DAZ itself is trying to improve game dev support the artists themselfs in general are still only focusing in rendering then it's make really hard for peoples outside this scope to come here looking for things, again i'm not saying which you can't find good products for game dev, you can, because i've found many good ones but still a minory compared with the ones focused for render.
I'm really hope not angering anyone with that discussion, but is really good to see all points.
Another problem I see is that some people would simply download the product, export the objs, and use it as such.
As Herschel already pointed out there's plenty of people exploiting the current system as it is. I understand you may not like every product but all the PAs work very hard for already underwhelming sale numbers. What you are proposing even if it only takes away 10 sales will have a significant impact and could snowball into either quality drop or PAs finding other work.
I think this feat. can be abused by people simply using the product then refund it.
Nope, it would just create more issues. If it's not broke don't fix it.
Utilise the 30 day refund policy. That works fine.