Windows 7 and 3D programs
Taoz
Posts: 9,787
I have two completely identical computers (also same graphics cards, Intel GMA X3000), one is running XP 32 the other Win 7 / 64. All the 3D programs i have work fine in XP, but in Win 7 the viewport in some of them is either blank or transparent (i.e. you see whatever is behind the program, e.g. the desktop). So you can't use the programs for anything.
So far I've experienced it with Pegasus 3 and Silo. The viewport in Poser 8 and PP2010 is also transparent in Win 7 if I choose OpenGL under Render Settings > Preview, I have to choose SreeD to make it work. In PP2012 though both OpenGL and SreeD works fine.
So I wonder what's going on here. Since the graphics cards on the machines are identical it might be graphics driver related, on the other hand since PP2012 works allright with OpenGL while PP2010 and 8 does not, it might also be a problem with the programs. There don't seem to be any settings in them to fix it though, as in PP2010 and 8.
I know that others are having similar problems with these programs. Anyone got any idea what's causing it?
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Comments
Have you tried disabling Aero in Win7? It could be bugging out due to that X3000, which is actually integrated graphics on the motherboard and not an actual card.
I am not having any problems like that but could Aero be interfering in some way - I have a couple of bespoke programs at work that Aero has to be turned off as it loads for them to work. That was in Visa and now W7 we have just migrated to. It is worth a try turning Aero off and seeing if that fixes things for you.
It must be Aero I think.
I have been using Win 7 for 3 years, and I have never seen that in any program.
It's a combination of things...mostly Aero, OpenGL implementation of that X3000 and probably most importantly the OpenGL version the various programs use.
The thing to remember is Aero is DirectX (or whatever MS is calling it these days), so the drivers are going to be optimized for it. As a result, Intel's OpenGL implementation has suffered greatly. Also, the x3000 shares system RAM, so greater than 4 GB is needed, in order to have 'enough' (by extension, so is 64 bit Windows). So there isn't going to be one simple 'fix all' fix. If these are not laptops, then 'driver roulette' may be in order, except Intel usually doesn't have many, if any, other versions than the on being used...for laptops, unless there is an update on the manufacturer's site, then that's the only driver around. The same goes for adding a video card...laptops no go--you're stuck with what's in it.
Thanks for the suggestions. Disabling Aero doesn't help, unfortunately. It's desktop machines, and the one with the problem has 8 GB RAM, the one without 4, so probably not that.
Think I'll try a different graphics card to see if that helps...
Odd, I have the same Win7 setup and I've never seen anything like that. The first thing I did on this machine was disabling every bit of Aero I could find, and I've never had any display problems that couldn't be cured with an NVidia driver update.
Why would you use an Nvidia driver on an Intel graphics chip? The X3000 isn't made by Nvidia.
Argle. <headdesk>
Sorry, didn't notice that bit. :red:
I don't know about Aero, because I have Win 7 Pro 64-bit, and I've never turned it off. The only transparency I see is in the top menu area of an app; never in the app's work area. That includes any 3D graphics, 2D graphics or other software, as well as my Firefox browser.
I'm on an HP Pavilion dv7 Notebook with an Intel Core CPU and integrated graphics, so I don't see how Aero's the problem, unless it's in conjunction with something else I don't have.
I have Aero on, and 3d Max 8 can't use it, so it gives a warning message when I open it. I turned off the warning message, so Max opens and just disables Aero until I close it again, then Aero returns automatically.
All other apps I have, even very old ones work fine with Aero.
mac
Yes, but WHAT integrated graphics...the problem, in this thread, is ultimately the Intel integrated graphics. Intel has always and probably will for a very long time, had poor OpenGL performance/implementation. And the Intel GMA line is probably one of the worst of the breed.
On Windows the OpenGL version for that graphics tops out at 2.0. The minimum version of OpenGL for Studio is 1.6...but the minimum recommended version is 2.2! At the minimum version expect Studio to run but performance will suffer and there will probably be other oddities. This will be the same for a lot of other programs.
Also with the GMA line, there may be BIOS related settings...specifically the PVAP settings, that may have an impact on graphics programs, too. Specifically the amount of RAM it reserves for the video...if it is set to Lite mode and the amount of reserved memory is LESS than 128 MB (the actual minimum for DS), the there could potentially be problems...even though video memory is shared, the pre-allocated amount is what would be reported to a program asking the drivers how much memory the video card has. 'Parnoid' mode reserves a fixed 96 MB...again below the minimum. For best performance and greatest chances of not having problems...and pretty much an 'as much as needed' memory amount with no oddball reporting to the drivers, Disabled would be the way to go...but, then there would be no hardware acceleration of video/audio streams.
OK, out of curiosity, because I haven't checked since I got this laptop a little over 2 yrs ago, I just opened DS and checked my graphics card info. See the attached screenshot.
I also have a quad core, rather than the OP's dual core, so that may have something to do with my not having problems except when I'm doing a render with a lot of reflections and AO lighting.
Yes, but WHAT integrated graphics...the problem, in this thread, is ultimately the Intel integrated graphics. Intel has always and probably will for a very long time, had poor OpenGL performance/implementation. And the Intel GMA line is probably one of the worst of the breed.
X3000 is not bad in other respects though. Even though the default output is VGA (it does have DVI but it requires a DVI port addon) it's just as sharp as DVI. I once plugged in an ATI card because I needed FSAA for a program which X3000 doesn't have, but JPG pics looked terrible with that card for some reason so I went back to X3000 again where JPGs look great.
It's a great chip for 2D and video stuff...it's one of the reasons low/mid range computers are commonly set up as 'multi-media' machines.
But it's got serious problems when it comes to non-DirectX/3D stuff.
And do check the BIOS setting I mentioned above.
I have already tried all the video options in BIOS, none of them made any difference.
It was worth a shot...and it has helped on some laptops that used the mobile version of that, for some games.
Newegg has an ECS GT430 Nvidia card for $30, after rebate...and a 430 is pretty decent card for DS and it can even do GPU rendering for Luxrender.
It was worth a shot...and it has helped on some laptops that used the mobile version of that, for some games.
Newegg has an ECS GT430 Nvidia card for $30, after rebate...and a 430 is pretty decent card for DS and it can even do GPU rendering for Luxrender.
Thanks, but not available here in DK it seems. And buying from US you end up paying $50+ extra in postage, customs fees and stuff.
Anyway, it's not important, I was going to build a new machine anyway and already have all the parts, just got to get myself together to do it.
The graphics card is a Radeon HD 6450, I hope that will work.
Thanks, but not available here in DK it seems. And buying from US you end up paying $50+ extra in postage, customs fees and stuff.
Anyway, it's not important, I was going to build a new machine anyway and already have all the parts, just got to get myself together to do it.
The graphics card is a Radeon HD 6450, I hope that will work.
It should...the I haven't had problems with the 6000 and 7000 series Radeon cards and AMD has been on a roll with good drivers. The only thing is that most GPU rendering solutions rely on CUDA/OpenCL, both of which are Nvidia only.
The 400 series Nvidia cards are the minimum level I'd go with and old/cheap right now, that's why I suggested that one. They aren't really a good gaming card, any longer, but are still very useful for other purposes.
Can't you use Amazon.DE, they sell it, and there will be no customs or other bother?
Thanks, but not available here in DK it seems. And buying from US you end up paying $50+ extra in postage, customs fees and stuff.
Anyway, it's not important, I was going to build a new machine anyway and already have all the parts, just got to get myself together to do it.
The graphics card is a Radeon HD 6450, I hope that will work.
It should...the I haven't had problems with the 6000 and 7000 series Radeon cards and AMD has been on a roll with good drivers. The only thing is that most GPU rendering solutions rely on CUDA/OpenCL, both of which are Nvidia only.
The 400 series Nvidia cards are the minimum level I'd go with and old/cheap right now, that's why I suggested that one. They aren't really a good gaming card, any longer, but are still very useful for other purposes.
I'm not into gaming, so I haven't paid much attention to my graphics cards so far, but if a good card can increase rendering speed it's worth looking at. I assume some cards are faster in that respect, and that price follows speed?
Can't you use Amazon.DE, they sell it, and there will be no customs or other bother?
Good idea, thanks!