DAZ Big Cat 2 washed out render. Solution help required please. SOLUTION FOUND.
Musicplayer
Posts: 515
Hi Folks,
I have just purchased DAZ Big Cat 2 and rendered the image with DAZ Studio 4.7 Pro using 3Delight render on my Mac computer and found it came out very pale as shown.
For some reason on my Mac, things like this happen with certain textures, and I have found adjusting the glossiness slider in the surfaces tab fixes the problem, but sadly not this time.
I have rendered the same image in DAZ Studio 4.7 Pro using LuxRender via Luxus and also in Poser Pro 2014 on the same computer, and the image has come out perfect each time. So something is not right when 3Delight render engine is used.
Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated, as I have tried everything I know without success.
Cheers :-)
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Comments
Show us your render settings. That looks like a gamma thing to me.
Thanks for your reply and help.
Very interesting that Gamma was set at 2.20 in all instances. So I experimented with lowering the Gamma in the 3Delight render to just 1.0 before the tiger rendered out perfectly as it had done in Luxus and Poser which were both set at Gamma 2.20.
The problem now is that with Gamma set at 1.0 the Tiger renders fine BUT everything else in the scene is too dark.
So back to the drawing board. Is there a way to adjust Gamma settings for just the Tiger, or some other slider that will do a similar thing in the surfaces tab settings, without affecting the other characters and items in the scene ?
Cheers :-)
Is the Gamma turned off or on?
What lights are you using?
Then the texture map is already at the correct setting...but DS doesn't think that it is.
So, in Surfaces, find the map, on the Diffuse, click on the box, like if you were going to change the image. Select Image Editor and then, set the Gamma, there, to 1.0. You only need to it once per map...so if they same map is used for the body and the legs, you don't need to do it again.
You should also check any bump, displacement, normal or other control maps. They should all be set to `1.0, too. DS usually does a good job with those.
Then the texture map is already at the correct setting...but DS doesn't think that it is.
So, in Surfaces, find the map, on the Diffuse, click on the box, like if you were going to change the image. Select Image Editor and then, set the Gamma, there, to 1.0. You only need to it once per map...so if they same map is used for the body and the legs, you don't need to do it again.
You should also check any bump, displacement, normal or other control maps. They should all be set to `1.0, too. DS usually does a good job with those.
This is terrific info, thank you!
This is terrific info, thank you!
Yes it is, I never knew this before, and it worked for me, but not as I quite expected as you will see in my reply to mjc1016.
Cheers :-)
Then the texture map is already at the correct setting...but DS doesn't think that it is.
So, in Surfaces, find the map, on the Diffuse, click on the box, like if you were going to change the image. Select Image Editor and then, set the Gamma, there, to 1.0. You only need to it once per map...so if they same map is used for the body and the legs, you don't need to do it again.
You should also check any bump, displacement, normal or other control maps. They should all be set to `1.0, too. DS usually does a good job with those.
Many thanks for your reply, I never knew this could be done, however there was some strange things happening.
1) I followed your instructions exactly and set the tigers texture maps to Gamma 1.0 which I had found to work previously when set in the 3Delight render engine.
2) I found that because the 3Delight renderer was set at Gamma 2.2 for the other characters in the scene the tiger still appeared very 'washed out'.
3) So I re-set all the tiger maps to Gamma 2.2 and found they rendered perfectly as the attached image shows.
At first I thought the 3Delight Render engine gamma setting of 2.20 was some how over-riding the new texture map settings of gamma 1.0 and still giving me that 'washed out' image.
The one thing I did notice, was that when I selected each tiger map to change its individual Gamma setting, each one was set at Zero. So this possibly explains why after altering each tiger texture map to gamma 1.0 they were still giving a 'washed out' render.
In all my past renders I have never had to play around or adjust Gamma levels. Why Luxus in Daz studio and Poser 2014 had no problem with the texture maps, but 3Delight did has me totally baffled.
I wonder if it is because I am using a Mac computer, and its OS somehow sees these textures differently in the 3Delight render engine, I have no idea.
Thankfully, after much experimenting and help from you all, it now works perfectly and just needs a few slight tweaks for perfection.
What a great community we have here at DAZ.
Cheers :-)
Thanks for your reply.
Yes, gamma was turned on, and I was using in all instances just one distant light.
It appears to have been a Gamma issue as outlined in my previous post.
Cheers :-)
If the colour maps have an embedded Gamma of 2.2, as most do, then having the gamma value set to 0 (auto) or 2.2 and Gamma Correction on should remove the embedded gamma. If you have a gamma other than 1 and don't set Gamma Correction to on then the images will be taken literally, and diffuse maps in particular are likely to get blown out as they are effectively double-adjusted.
@MusicPlayer The image looks great! So glad it's worked out.
Both statements are correct as far as my experience is concerned, but there's a lot I don't understand.
We've got a few things that interact in different ways....
(1) the actual pixel rgb values of the textures
(2) the embedded gamma of same (please explain)
What happens if that is absent?
(3) the gamma value that is set in render options/image
You mentioned gamma value 0 means 'auto' (I didn't know that). What does that mean to the renderer exactly?
If 0 = auto what does 1 mean exactly? I assume it means the same whether embedded in the image or set in the render options?
(4) the gamma correction flag in render options
What does the correction entail? When does it 'process' the images and when does it not?
anyway, all these things interacting and the possible combinations can be a bit confusing. It would be really taxing to have to know the gamma for all the texture images we use.
Hoboy. Perhaps a bit much to clarify.
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Many thanks for your reply, I never knew this could be done, however there was some strange things happening.
1) I followed your instructions exactly and set the tigers texture maps to Gamma 1.0 which I had found to work previously when set in the 3Delight render engine.
2) I found that because the 3Delight renderer was set at Gamma 2.2 for the other characters in the scene the tiger still appeared very 'washed out'.
3) So I re-set all the tiger maps to Gamma 2.2 and found they rendered perfectly as the attached image shows.
At first I thought the 3Delight Render engine gamma setting of 2.20 was some how over-riding the new texture map settings of gamma 1.0 and still giving me that 'washed out' image.
The one thing I did notice, was that when I selected each tiger map to change its individual Gamma setting, each one was set at Zero. So this possibly explains why after altering each tiger texture map to gamma 1.0 they were still giving a 'washed out' render.
In all my past renders I have never had to play around or adjust Gamma levels. Why Luxus in Daz studio and Poser 2014 had no problem with the texture maps, but 3Delight did has me totally baffled.
I wonder if it is because I am using a Mac computer, and its OS somehow sees these textures differently in the 3Delight render engine, I have no idea.
Thankfully, after much experimenting and help from you all, it now works perfectly and just needs a few slight tweaks for perfection.
What a great community we have here at DAZ.
Cheers :-)
Very nice, if ask for me just a bit of LAMH fur on the tiger and it will be perfect :)
Both statements are correct as far as my experience is concerned, but there's a lot I don't understand.
We've got a few things that interact in different ways....
(1) the actual pixel rgb values of the textures
(2) the embedded gamma of same (please explain)
What happens if that is absent?
(3) the gamma value that is set in render options/image
You mentioned gamma value 0 means 'auto' (I didn't know that). What does that mean to the renderer exactly?
If 0 = auto what does 1 mean exactly? I assume it means the same whether embedded in the image or set in the render options?
(4) the gamma correction flag in render options
What does the correction entail? When does it 'process' the images and when does it not?
anyway, all these things interacting and the possible combinations can be a bit confusing. It would be really taxing to have to know the gamma for all the texture images we use.
Hoboy. Perhaps a bit much to clarify.
Sorry, I wasn't as clear as I might have been. The embedded gamma isn't a setting in the file, it means that the image has (probably) been painted to look right on a gamma 2.2ish monitor, rather than having he colour values it would if it was gamma 1. So it is entirely possible that images made for use in 3D with a colour-managed workflow might not need reverse correction before rendering; most Poser/DS textures, however, will.
Gamma 0 meaning auto is in the Image Editor dialogue box, which you can open from the image selection menu - it isn't a value you should put in Render Settings. If the gamma is set to 0 then DS will decide by how the image is used whether it should be corrected or taken literally - but sometimes the decision will be wrong, especially in a custom Shader Mixer shader.
If the image is treated as having an embedded gamma - value other than 1, which is linear, set in the Image Editor or gamma 0 in the Image Editor and the image is used in a colour rather than a control context (diffuse colour, say, as opposed to opacity) then tdl make will apply an inverse correction to make it effectively gamma 1 when optimising - changing the value in the Image Editor will prompt DS to reoptimise the image.
Thank you so much, Richard. That really does clarify things.
Hey Alessandro_AM,
Thanks for your recommendation, and if DAZ gives you PA's the purchase details, you will see that I have purchased your great LAMH fur product a couple of days ago. I have your original LAMH product, and when I found you had made a separate item to go with my DAZ Big Cat 2 purchase, that went in the cart too. ;-P
Cheers, and keep the 'hairy' products coming. :lol:
Thanks, all the help was much appreciated.
Cheers :-)
Sorry, I wasn't as clear as I might have been. The embedded gamma isn't a setting in the file, it means that the image has (probably) been painted to look right on a gamma 2.2ish monitor, rather than having he colour values it would if it was gamma 1. So it is entirely possible that images made for use in 3D with a colour-managed workflow might not need reverse correction before rendering; most Poser/DS textures, however, will.
Gamma 0 meaning auto is in the Image Editor dialogue box, which you can open from the image selection menu - it isn't a value you should put in Render Settings. If the gamma is set to 0 then DS will decide by how the image is used whether it should be corrected or taken literally - but sometimes the decision will be wrong, especially in a custom Shader Mixer shader.
If the image is treated as having an embedded gamma - value other than 1, which is linear, set in the Image Editor or gamma 0 in the Image Editor and the image is used in a colour rather than a control context (diffuse colour, say, as opposed to opacity) then tdl make will apply an inverse correction to make it effectively gamma 1 when optimising - changing the value in the Image Editor will prompt DS to reoptimise the image.
Many thanks Richard for your replies,
As I stated in a previous reply, I have never had to adjust gamma settings before, and I cannot pretend that I fully understand everything. I am still totally confused why 3Delight failed to render my tiger scene correctly, when other render engines found no gamma problems at all. I have not heard of anyone else experiencing this with the DAZ Big Cat 2 texture maps. So is it just me, and if so, why ?
Thankfully, everyone here has been a great help, and I have learnt something new along the way. So it's not all bad. ;-)
Cheers :-)
The issue would show up only if the render engine was applying gamma adjustment to the output - not everyone wants or needs it, so it may have been absent or the render gamma may have been set to 1 (no adjustment).