The DAZ3D sales are a nuisance of incomplete information.
rampart_1576840087
Posts: 504
Look at the Buy 2+ Still Mad or Newly Mad Items &Get;
70% off over 1100 genesis items.
What are Still Mad or Newly Mad Items?
I basically pay little or no attention to the DAZ3D sales
I don't agree with having to buy something I don't need to buy something I could use or need.
Whoever puts these sales together must be from another planet.
What is wrong with clear explanations?
Yes, I would like to buy some Genesis items at a reduced price, forget it.
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If you click on the March Madness banner, you are taken to the March Madness sale page which shows you what items are "Still Mad" and "Newly Mad"
It is very simple. Click on the green banner ad that you show and it takes you to this page. http://www.daz3d.com/march-madness-2015
Anybody who spends 10 hours a day in the catalog knows what the deal is. Their children will have it as instinct programmed into their genes. However, for the infrequent visitor, the sales banners can be an unwanted computer game. i.e. click here to get the first clue, then click there to follow path "A". If you find yourself on path "D", pay $200 and return to "Go". Simple as pi.
woulda hoped the vendors of the new items would be around to answer questions their product
or the vendors of the featured store sales
I miss the old http://www.daz3d.com/sales-promotions/ address that automatically routed you to the current sales.
Daz marketing is completely out of touch.
Busy people don't have time for their dizzy time consuming games.
I posted this to possibly generate some feedback that would resolve the problem.
I'm not going through 60 items x 269 pages of pictures every time to buy something I don't want and then go through another 60 items by XXX pages of pictures to choose something I might want.
While at the same time having to calculate what I would have to pay for the items as I go to further sort the nonsense.
There is no excuse for stupidity in marketing. It is too easy to say what you want to sell something for and let people decide what to do about it.
Reallusion would be a good example for DAZ to follow. They have special offers and people participate without complaint. If something is unclear they FIX IT FAST.
I should also add the search and sort is no where near what it should be for an e-commerce site with a large number of items. One word searches and de-limited choices for search are archaic and don't refine the search. Freebie Magento e-commerce websites are a waste of time for large number of items and searches. Large numbers of items in e-commerce stores require large number of tags, or search terms and sorting ability.
The goal should be to facilitate buyers to find what they want easily and quickly. Anyone stupid enough to think people want to scroll through thousand items to buy something is working against themselves.
It would help Daz if they had extra fields for all product items just for search terms. A large number of tags could be applied for each item. Then when they have a sale they could have the search look for those specific terms, with a sort after search. Example... March Madness would be a search tag in the item file. Daz could have thousands of items pre-tagged with a large number of search terms. Then they could select a grouping from their database and tag all those items for sale. Proficiency with databases is critical for competent e-commerce sites.
You don't have to create an application for preparing for searches and sorts. The power and memory capacity of modern computers is adequate to just load the database files into EXCEL, and use EXCEL to restructure or assign terms to line items. It is a snap to do this if you understand import and export file types.
Footnote: - I know the problems of building a search freindly e-commerce store. Preparing the database for search terms is a difficult and can days studying, researching and interviewing others to develop best searches people will most likely use. Marketers have to guess at a lot of terms, and categorize their thoughts like buyers are thinking. We don't read minds, and often our own experience is not adequate to make best choices. Google is constantly changing their algorithms to facilitate searches, which should encourage online marketers to pay attention as well.
Yes, I did finally find the referred ltems.
Now, I can scroll through hundreds of items not knowing precisely what I will be paying until I access the cart, etc.
Still, I should not have to buy content I am not interested to buy in order to buy something I do want at a better price.
This is a consistent thing. It would not be a nuisance, if it were occassionally done.
"You must buy this to get a good price on the things you do want is not a best way"
Chohole, thank you for your responses.
.
Colorful language and shouting aside, this is a frequent topic of complaint. The usual reply is "if it didn't work, they wouldn't do it". Although I'm not completely convinced anybody's listening or checking.
And before this thread gets locked or evaporated I've grabbed a copy to add to my collection for perusal and a quick nostalgic chuckle in my old age.
I started a thread with the exact same complaint a week ago http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/53918/
The logistics of shopping this sale are beyond my patience. The whole DAZ3D experience is becoming way too complicated. Like I've said many times - make everything compatible. Every skin texture should be usable in one click on every figure. Every hair model and every piece of clothing and every accessory should too.
Everything should be usable in both DAZ Studio and Poser - without extra steps or products.
Loading a figure, dressing it and putting hair on it, and placing it in a room is becoming a logistical nightmare.
People value saving money, but even more than that, they value not wasting time.
What would make me SLIGHTLY more interested? An icon on items in my wishlist or some list saying 'hey, this stuff on your wishlist is on sale!'
Because if it's not obvious? I'm not going to bother looking, and I'm not going to be motivated to go 'oo I'll buy stuff on sale!' when it's like doing tax returns trying to figure out how the sale works.
You know what a good sale is? 'These items are 1/2 off' or 'these artists, all their stuff half off' or similar.
I mean, it doesn't cause me any trouble -- I just shrug and resume normal spending habits. But it doesn't inspire me with confidence in the competence of the company when they do stupid stuff like this.
You make a valid point.
The wishlist could be relevant from the buyer and seller viewpoint.
What I would really appreciate to read from DAZ3d = " Thank you for the suggestions we are interested to better serve our customers, DAZ3D will create a special forums to address your suggestions and concerns to improve your purchasing experience"
For what it's worth it's been pretty clear to me, and much better than the stacking or punch sales. Now those got to be a real nightmare figuring out what you were going to pay for something. And they do put the half price artists at the bottom of the madness promo page, and you don't have to buy anything else to get the half price. I have to say, as a long term DAZ customer this is probably the least confusing sale they have had in a while, not to mention the most glitch-free. Of course the bar was set kind of low there ;)
Greetings,
You...you do understand that's just not possible, right?Not, 'It's too hard', or 'We don't want to', but...like...not possible to do anywhere near perfectly? The products don't contain the same data; they simply CAN'T be converted in most cases, and then to add the idea of 'without extra steps or products', and it's just not the way either set of software works, and DEFINITELY not the way older products like V4 and before work.
It's...like saying you should be able to drop a 426 HEMI engine into a Nissan Leaf without extra steps or products. It's like saying you should be able to get Cable TV over the air without any adapters or converters. It's like expecting a classic record player to play CDs, and being upset that it doesn't.
I've seen you say this sort of thing a number of times, and I've always just want to make sure that it's a rhetorical device, a means of expressing your frustration, not something you really think is going to be possible.
I get your frustration, I really do...but it just...doesn't work like that. :-/
-- Morgan
I'd like an icon that shows if an item is wishlisted, sort of like this:
--
I'd like an icon that shows if an item is wishlisted, sort of like this:
--
This isn't a bad idea, as it can help users to make purchases.
It is always good business to faciliate anything within reason to encourage buying.
I keep a list on MSFT onenote of items I would like to buy,.
I prioritze the listing with price as well.
So yes, I agree this would probably help.
I don't believe it's not possible. The comparisons you give are with physically concrete objects, not with computer data. Data is infinitely plastic. The 3D products don't contain the same data - so change the data. You can already make most models compatible - but you have a spend a lot of extra money on extra products and a lot of time fiddling with things - but you can make hair fit figures it wasn't made for. You can make clothes and skin textures fit. It's all do-able. You can drape fabric in Poser's Cloth Room and export it and import it into DAZ Studio. But it's a real chore. It becomes complicated, confusing, work - instead of fun.
You...you do understand that's just not possible, right?Not, 'It's too hard', or 'We don't want to', but...like...not possible to do anywhere near perfectly? The products don't contain the same data; they simply CAN'T be converted in most cases, and then to add the idea of 'without extra steps or products', and it's just not the way either set of software works, and DEFINITELY not the way older products like V4 and before work.
It's...like saying you should be able to drop a 426 HEMI engine into a Nissan Leaf without extra steps or products. It's like saying you should be able to get Cable TV over the air without any adapters or converters. It's like expecting a classic record player to play CDs, and being upset that it doesn't.
I've seen you say this sort of thing a number of times, and I've always just want to make sure that it's a rhetorical device, a means of expressing your frustration, not something you really think is going to be possible.
I get your frustration, I really do...but it just...doesn't work like that. :-/
-- Morgan
I agree - anything is possible when working with data. It's just a matter of how much work you want to put in. In some cases it's just too much though. Bugs or flaws in programs are often ignored because you'd literally have to rewrite the whole program to fix them. I have bugs in some of the programs I write which I can't fix because Microsoft have bugs in the libraries and frameworks I use which they can't/won't fix because it would be too complex.
Ideally, the whole computer and software industry should start all over with newer and better standards. The PC concept for example is very old and in many ways outdated, but they keep building on top of the old structure. Newer and better designs like the Amiga were killed because the PC concept had established itself as the business standard. An operating system much better than Windows was killed because Microsoft was better in advertising their inferior OS. This is how things go when the free market rather than common sense rules.
Greetings,
No. Data is not infinitely plastic. Your ability to drape and adjust clothes in Poser's cloth room is the point. The original data doesn't contain the information the application needs, and never will, so you add them using an extra tool, and use your human perception to determine when it's good enough.Converting V4 high-heeled shoes to Genesis is the same way. The original mesh and related files don't contain enough information about what has to be rigid and what should be scaled for the feet (weight mapping), and so an automatic conversion tool has to 'approximate', which means it will get it wrong. Garbage in, garbage out. You cannot fix this without every PA who's ever put out a product fixing up their old products with all the information that new software needs, and while they're doing that, they're not making new products to make the money to feed themselves and their families.
Different render engines have different needs from the specularity and roughness of skin. If someone created a skin six years ago, and it's gorgeous on the render engine it was created on originally, that doesn't mean that it can be translated to a render engine that needs specularity split apart into three or more different values.
If I tell you that 72.1% of software will be obsolete in a year, but you've got a program that requires inputting the percentages of mobile, desktop, and console software that will be obsolete, you don't know, because you don't have that breakdown. You simply can't extract that breakdown from the number I gave you. Data is not infinitely plastic, it has limitations, restrictions, unknowns and assumptions. And if you use that data in a software system where those assumptions are different, your result will be just plain wrong. Worse, you can't force everyone to use the same assumptions, because then you're locking progress at what we know at the time you force those assumptions.
I know folks hate hearing this, probably as much as I hate saying it, but really...it's just not that simple. :down:
-- Morgan
I agree - I like this 'Mad' process much better than the punch sale approach
I'd claim anything the human brain can do which doesn't require emotional judgment, a computer can do as well. When doing technical work the brain is basically using only two of its features: rational intelligence and memory. A computer has both, therefore it can emulate the human brain in any respect as long as it has access to the same data.
Sure it can get really complex technically and programatically, but that's not the same as being impossible. Even if some technical feat may look impossible from our current point of view and with our current knowledge, it may be commonplace in perhaps only ten years. We see it happen all the time. Especially in programming the possibilites are endless, because you don't have to deal with the constraints of the physical world.
Just create a plugin or update the render engine to be able to do what's necessary to produce the desired result. Unless you're a Viking, code and data are not etched in stone, you can change and redesign anything as you like, if you care to do the work. That's the point! :)
Why is 3D content made to be incompatible to begin with? V2, V3, V4, Genesis, Genesis2 Female - they are all models of a human female - with 2 arms, 2 legs, etc. They are all approximately the same size *visually*. The appearance is improved upon with each generation, but why must the basic clothing fit measuremtns be changed each time - changed just enough so you can't use previous generations clothes and hair and textures? Why can't a hair model fit every generation? Does the shape of the human scalp have to be changed every time so the old hair won't fit? The concept of skin textures and how they are put together can be rethought so you can use every texture on every generation of figure. I'm not talking about putting a skin texture on a woman, and the same texture on an elephant.
Mesh - there is no mesh. Mesh is chiken-wire, or silk. 3D mesh is data.
Greetings,
I wrote up an epically long response, but I saved it off elsewhere, because it's besides the point, and if you don't already recognize that the numbers that make up 3D data all have assumptions built into them, more writing won't help.
Remember that the request was without extra steps or products, and certainly without a research team and five years. Sometimes you need to make sure people understand the limitations of raw data, and that because it's on a computer doesn't mean that it's magical somehow.
-- Morgan
But it is magical.
This is magical hair https://www.daz3d.com/flat-top-hair-for-genesis-and-genesis-2
and this is magical skin http://www.daz3d.com/rawart
Converting V4 high-heeled shoes to Genesis is the same way. The original mesh and related files don't contain enough information about what has to be rigid and what should be scaled for the feet (weight mapping), and so an automatic conversion tool has to 'approximate', which means it will get it wrong. Garbage in, garbage out. You cannot fix this without every PA who's ever put out a product fixing up their old products with all the information that new software needs, and while they're doing that, they're not making new products to make the money to feed themselves and their families.
Different render engines have different needs from the specularity and roughness of skin. If someone created a skin six years ago, and it's gorgeous on the render engine it was created on originally, that doesn't mean that it can be translated to a render engine that needs specularity split apart into three or more different values.
If I tell you that 72.1% of software will be obsolete in a year, but you've got a program that requires inputting the percentages of mobile, desktop, and console software that will be obsolete, you don't know, because you don't have that breakdown. You simply can't extract that breakdown from the number I gave you. Data is not infinitely plastic, it has limitations, restrictions, unknowns and assumptions. And if you use that data in a software system where those assumptions are different, your result will be just plain wrong. Worse, you can't force everyone to use the same assumptions, because then you're locking progress at what we know at the time you force those assumptions.
I know folks hate hearing this, probably as much as I hate saying it, but really...it's just not that simple. :down:
-- Morgan
"Data is not infinitely plastic" exactly. If the amount of information in your data is poor for achieve your goal, you need incorporate more information from original source or another valid source to "mimic" plasticity. Ask the guys with Nobel in economy that just ruin their company only because they do not count with previus eleven years of information (Ascent of Money, chimerica ).
But it is magical.
This is magical hair https://www.daz3d.com/flat-top-hair-for-genesis-and-genesis-2
and this is magical skin http://www.daz3d.com/rawart
Nope. Soto, Raw, other artists and DAZ developers are Magical. The rest is science.
Here's an example: for Victoria 2, a high-res texture map was 3000x3000. You got a diffuse map and a bump map. And the textures weren't included with the model. Victoria 6 includes a base texture with 4000x4000 maps, and there's a specular map and a normal map as well, as well as displacement maps for some body parts.
Now, the technology for applying a diffuse map hasn't really changed. But the old textures aren't go to look high-res any more. They only have 25% or less information than there is in the textures for a modern figure. You can still use them as background figures, but side-by-side with the new ones they'll stand out as being low-res.
Now consider areas where the technology has changed drastically, like rigging. Back in the Victoria 2 days, V2 and the Mil Kids couldn't share clothes, even though they were made from the same mesh. In the V3 days there were about a dozen figures, and they couldn't share clothes. There were add-ons you could buy to convert clothes, but they weren't as good as they are today. Now you have G2F and G2M, and all of their morphs can share clothes, and there's a pretty automatic autofit feature for wearing each others clothes, as well as Genesis 1 clothes, included free. There are paid add-ons to convert clothes from earlier generations, and even morphs. The amount of compatibility with previous generations and within the same generation has increased tremendously, and the amount of effort required to do so has dropped as well.
It is also a lot easier (though by no means is the technology to do so simple) to use older content on newer figures than to use newer content on older figures. When you're using new technology, you know what the older tech was, so you have the option to build in conversion capabilities, as was done with Genesis. You can't expect Victoria 2 to have a built-in ability to make use of technology which wouldn't exist for 15 years.
Computers are not magical, metaphorically speaking they are just over blown calculators and the software they run are really complex mathematical equations. They can't think for themselves they can only take data and shove it through those equations, the more complex the equations get the greater the chance of hitting a divide by zero error (again metaphorically speaking).
Please if you don't understand modeling, UV mapping, texturing or shaders, and rigging don't make blanket statements about how easy it should be to make everything work in everything. The products linked are not magical even though their creators may be wizards, a lot of work went into them to make them as compatible/flexible as they are.
It's a product where the PA spent quite some time to create custom fits for various shapes manually instead of relying on the automatic morph process, because the result of that automatic process wasn't good enough.
Throw in an unsupported morph and you're back to the automatic process, and if that's an extreme morph there's a good chance the result won't be that great.
That hair is definitely awesome, but it's not a magical product which will work perfectly with every figure and morph ever created or ever to be created in the future. There's just no way to have a product like that.
Nope. Soto, Raw, other artists and DAZ developers are Magical. The rest is science.
Absolutely true, the artists make the magic. There are one click solutions because the published artists spent hours doing all the dirty work to make items compatible first.