questions about disney-pixar lighting
oomu
Posts: 175
Hello
I have some questions about lighting in iray and I'll be very grateful for helps and advices in lighting (or skin shader if it's the problem).
I try to morph Callie to Tinker Bell (from the disneytoon movies), rendered in iray: Tinker_Bell_-_Callie.jpg
I used callie skin with iray genesis 2 female material shader setting.
But my goal is that: Tinker-Bell-secret-of-the-wings.jpg
The morph is not quite there, but I have more difficulty with the kind of light/shader they have in disney movies
I'm still at lost how in pixar/disney movies the light is so soft, like around the character, nicely showing their features.
With iray, is it Bigger source light ? Nearer ? or it's a problem in the shader for the skin ?
Or else, do you have some advice to emulate that lighting with 3DLight ? Even with UE it's never quite the same feel.
Thanks a lot.
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Comments
One thing I'd suggest is more lights. Another light from the camera area towards your figure is what I see missing. That might help to soften the shadowed surfaces.
You've got an overhead light, but I think you need whatever they call the light from the camera area. And I'm not talking about the headlight on the cam.
For Iray, I create a torus primitive that I turn into a light emitter to throw more light towards my subject. This torus goes around the main camera, angled to generally be in the same plane as the face of the camera. (It's some photography thing that I read about (either here or on the internet).) It should generally be the same kind of thing for 3delight.
The torus light emitter needs to be less intense than your overhead.
EDIT:
You can see this effect in my WIP render for the current n00b contest here:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/56100/P60/#820747
The figure in front has no direct spot on him. There's the mood/setting light sources from the scene (the little reds, the small whites up top). There's also the white light of the room beyond the room, which is backlighting the guy & creating the most shadows. For the front surface of the guy, that is almost all coming off of the torus around my camera.
The scene still needs a lot of work, but I think the lighting of the male figure is similar to the soft light you want on your subject.
thanks for the advices and the example.
I will try the torus (when I'll find how to make a half-torus ^^, )
I tried with light in disc shape.
I love analyzing pictures and trying to determine how they were made. Here's my two cents:
It looks like the Disney image was rendered in a biased renderer, giving it a more stylized cartoon lighting feel. (that doesn't mean you can't get similar effects from Iray, but for this style 3Delight might be the better choice) The Disney character has more exaggerated translucency in the skin and hair than the default Iray skin shaders, you might try to get a similar look by playing with the subsurface scattering and translucency settings in the skin shader. That will really contribute to the soft look.
Also, there is a bit more going on with the Disney scene's lighting than in your render. If you study a couple of books on traditional photography portrait lighting, it will help you learn how to analyze the lighting in photos and films so that you can replicate those light set-ups in your digital work. The Disney scene's lighting looks pretty simple though, here is what I'm seeing that is different from your scene: The main key light on the Disney character's face is more warm and golden, the character's skin (and hair) has SSS more pronounced than in your skin shader, so the shadows have a rich warm glow, and on the Disney image there is a soft faint pink/purple edge light coming from the opposite direction of the warm main key light. This edge light provides a nice color contrast and helps show off the form of the model by adding a little illumination to the shadow side. Also, the Disney image's background of purple and blue helps the contrastingly warmly lit figure really pop off the screen.
side note - a good way to help figure out how a portrait is lit is to look at the reflections in the model's eyes. What Blurst of Times said about using a ring light would help fill in dark shadows. A simple spotlight or emitter shaped like a large rectangle or disc placed behind the camera should be good enough for this, since the main reasons to use a ring light in real life are that you can't put a flash directly behind the camera lens or carry a giant fill light with you everywhere (but we don't have those restrictions in the digital 3D world). The main reason people use ring lights in 3D is if they want the characteristic donut shaped reflection in the eyes. Otherwise, placing a simple light behind the camera will render quicker than a light with more complex geometry like the torus. But no matter what shape it is, a fill light in addition to your key light will help lighten and control your shadows.
It's also probably good to keep in mind that the Disney image went through the hands and eyes of several artists during it's creation and a battery of color correction, enhancements, and tweaks after the render to give it the Disney polish. You're never seeing just a raw render in Disney or Pixar films. So a powerful image editor like Photoshop or Gimp is going to come in real handy. Like studying traditional portrait lighting, studying photographers' digital retouching techniques is a really good way to learn how to finish your renders so they become completed illustrations.
wow, thanks a lot for all the advices and analysis
I totally missed the purple light (!). Now I understand the subtle effect in these animated movies of the character detaching itself from the background but not in jarring way.
Also I forgot how much SSS matters ^^, it really gives a pretty warmness to her skin.
Now, with the purple light, a better fill (still working on a torus rig light), and modifications to the shader (0.75 to Translucency Weight and SSS Amount, just to start) it's already nicer.
I'll post something after some more tweaks (lights are too bright, her skin is a little too pink, I need to set a proper iray shader for hairs and lips, and so on: it's very exciting to make progress).
And after that, it will be time to emulate the dark scenes in the last "Tinker Bell and The Legend of the never beast" :)
The model is still not enough... so cutely roundy cheeky girl (cherubic I guess).. I guess I will have to toon her a little more with Zbrush.
Ho, I understand there is always some color corrections and filter applied to the raw renders for a movie. It would be too easy if a software could create ART with just a push on a button...
I'll get to it after my rendering is a solid foundation. I know Gimp and Photoshop, but these days I use Affinity Photo (beta), a very convenient software, more lean than Photoshop but it has everything to make the work.
thanks both of you.
Your initial render is off to a great start too, I should have mentioned before.
I bet smoothing out the smile creases on her cheeks will make a big difference when you're Disneyfying her. Something I learned about drawing cartoons is to avoid drawing those lines unless you want the character to look elderly, especially on a female character. That's also one of those fixes that could be a quick Photoshop retouching rather than a lengthy Z-Brush session, depending on your skill set. It is really satisfying to have your model be just right though. :)
...oy, she is cute.
Hi there,
here is a new render with modifications to the lights, a rim purple-pink light, more SSS to the skin, new shader for the hair, a crazy background.
Sky background and some corrections of exposure in Affinity Photo.
The mesh still to be tweaked. The nose needs some work to be cuter. To smooth the cheek line and maybe to again to make her cheek rounder, more cherubic.
I want to do it in Zbrush, because I like to have a nice model all ready for future ideas, like an actor and it's a good exercice to learn ZBrush. I forgot details about ZBrush all the time, still lost in brushes, tools, uv, polypaint.. my workflow is a nightmare. But I think I know now how to create a proper morph "G2F -> Tinker Bell" well rigged and all.
The eyes are still not good enough. They are too white, but at least they act more like glass now. And of course the shape and eyelashes are wrong. I guess I need to do a map for the eyelashes to emulate the tinker bell style ((thick, short and black).
Thanks for your help and time, it's very useful.
...wish I could afford ZBrush. I feel she already looks cute though.
ho she's cute
but I still think something is off ^^; The nose need to be corrected (on the nostrils)
my goal is to attain the Disney vibe.
-
I think Zbrush is worth the price. In my opinion it allows an "artistic" approach to modeling and works nicely with DAZ. But yes, it's expensive and one has to be sure he/she will use it.
...I don't have 700$ to spare on my income so ZBrush is out unless I win a lotto.
At least I can get Photoshop on a subscription which make that programme more affordable.
...I don't have 700$ to spare on my income so ZBrush is out unless I win a lotto.
ho she's cute
but I still think something is off ^^; The nose need to be corrected (on the nostrils)
my goal is to attain the Disney vibe.
-
I think Zbrush is worth the price. In my opinion it allows an "artistic" approach to modeling and works nicely with DAZ. But yes, it's expensive and one has to be sure he/she will use it.
Too small eyes, too sharp cheek lines... and the skull needs to be slightly rounder.... The Disney character's head is more like a smooth ball, while your version, in comparision, appears more "haggard", more like an adult.
http://cd6.aponet.de/uploads/pics/14803_kindchen-schema_main_02.jpg
...same for Merida's head. Ended up that of all characters, I found Teen Julie 5 to be the best starting point.
However, now I have both Dolly and Belle, going to see how a fusion of them works.