Faster way to use complex models?
I'm using the Forest Superior model in Daz Studio and find it impossible to use. My mac slows to a crawl. Even if I reduce the model to wire frame I can't even reposition the camera. This is on a older mac pro with a nvidia 680 card so it shouldn't be this sluggish. Is there a way to work with complex models? What sort of powerful machine is needed to work with complex items like a forest?
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Unfortunately these sets do take a very robust system. We all tend to struggle with them.
Thanks...so what I need is a robust system. What exactly is a robust system? How much Ram? How many Cuda cores in the graphics card? (Such information should come with such complex models.)
I am not sure quite what is considered a robust system nowadys, I usually lag some way back from one, whtever it is. You know what they always say, the best system for your needs is the one that has yet to be released
So true. What I need is a system that's a bit faster than my imagination.
8GB Ram IMHO should be the lowest one should aim for. RAM is what will alllow you to use big scenes and be able to navigate. I have 8 GB and soon will be increasing that to 16GB
When I have a BIG model (I model aircraft control systems at work, and play with Daz3D at home) I'll only load a few items in order to position the set. This is only possible if the set comes as separate items/models. For example, you may be able to load a few trees so that you can set up your camera and other models then load the rest when you're ready to render. You can also open the model (if it's one big item) in a 3D program (I use Blender) and simplify the mesh, ie: reduce the number of polygons so that it doesn't strain your system. If you can load individual trees then consider only loading the ones you need up close and just use a background picture of trees. Or you can obtain a low resolution tree to use in the background and vary it's size and colour.
Robust system? There is no standard for power. It depends on how much you want to spend on something that's probably just a hobby. You can build a PC using the latest from Intel ($1,100), 64Gb of RAM ($600), a couple of fast SSD's ($2,000), a pair of high end video cards ($2,500) then throw this into a case with the necessary accessories and wind up with a ten grand monster. It will seem blindingly fast at first but you'll load bigger and bigger models until it's just as slow as the older one and you'll wonder "What the heck?!" At work I have a workstation with a Quadro card that originally cost six grand just for the card. My much more modest system at home feels much faster simply because I'm working with smaller and simpler models. Remembering that this is just a hobby, spend what you're comfortable with and accept that you're going to experience slowdowns at some point if you use large/complex models. I'd advise you NOT to buy a certain video card just because of a certain program or renderer. There are numerous choices when it comes to rendering and none are really any better than any other despite what the people who sell them (and their fanboys) say. Any recent rendering engine is capable of amazing results if you spend the time to learn it. That's the key. Learn the program and learn it well. It's much like driving. Simply owning a Ferrari won't make you Niki Lauda. Spending the time learning how to drive fast will (or at least give you a shot at it).
Does this answer your question Deke?
Bob
Yes Pete, I agree. When I had this system built seemed 8mb would be enough, especially given that my all time fave program is 32 bit still. But that was 2 years ago and now it seems a very slim system compared to what others around me are getting.
Forest, and Forest SUperior does load as an entire model I believe and not as separate parts. I believe, judging by what is noted on the store page for Forest.
Had to laugh at that comment, I know just where you are coming from.
I have an i5 with 16 GB of ram no Nvidia card and can move this model around fine. It does take up 5.7 GB of the memory with only it loaded and that is the HR one. I did this image using the SR Winter one.
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/893976/#Comment_893976
I have 10 GB in my Mac Pro 3,1. I'll try stuffing more ram into it. I'm also thinking of trying a second video card, but that would require a secondary power source for it.
I appreciate the information and did try loading the SD version of the forest...and then deleting or turning off some elements. Still very sluggish. And the computer outside the Daz program runs sluggish...even if I'm just searching for a file in a Finder window.
Do you have the Aux Viewport on and set to Iray? I close that when moving items around as you have to wait on it refreshing before doing something else, Moving the scene can be a bit jerky using the sliders but not unusable.
Also check the Display Optimization setting under Preferences > Interface. Sometimes changing that can smooth things out/make the movement/screen more responsive.
Smooth Shaded is slightly faster than Texture Shaded.
Another suggestion I haven't tried yet is to group stuff and temporarily hide the groups that aren't in use.
That can be very helpful...I had to do that recently with a set I was constructing for a render and grouping all the plants and hiding that group did speed things up, a lot.
Great tips. And I didn't have the Aux viewport on. That is a very hand feature, but can be a time-suck so I keep it off when not in use. Good to know about Smooth shaded. I'm surprise wire frame isn't a whole lot faster. I suppose it still has to calculate all that geometry.
You mean Blender can do what Decimator does?
Yes. Blender has it's own decimate function built in...most all worthwhile modellers do (Studio is NOT a modeller).
The forest is best moved around if you just have the ground plane visible, parent stuff and turn off visibility for groups of objects until you are ready to render.
I've not used the "Superior" expanison, but the base "Forest" is just a slog to use on my computer. You can compare my mac's stats (in my signature) to yours. (scrolling up I see your MAc likely kicks mine's usb port.)
To at least get better render times, I did a render of the scene without my figures in it, but after I placed the camera. Then I put that render on a plane in the background to block the actual forrest from the camera
Aside from power from your CPU, GPU and more RAM than Bill Gates could ever comprehend (yes, it was a misquote) your system will only be as fast as it's slowest component. If your runtime is on a USB* *hard drive (on your Mac Pro it's a USB 2.0 interface), if you're running ANY mac anti-virus, or any mac "cleaning" utility if your system is busy wasting precious CPU time for nonsense tasks it will have a serious impact in it's performance.
3D is possibly the single most resource intensive hobby a computer user can take up, it's best handled by a computer that is dedicated and stripped down to that task. A robust system is like a vintage muscle car: prepare to get under the hood every other weekend and make sure she's running as clean as the heaviest Deep Purple jam could ever describe (e.g.
).
I don't know what the difference is but I have just, after months of trying, upgraded the graphics driver, Intel 4000, on this laptop and a scene I am doing in the forest with two figures is moving around much smoother than yesterday. Nothing else has changed
unfortunately Apple has removed all GPU driver development from manufacturer (AMD-ATI/Intel/Nvdia) and it's all done in house on Apples schedule release of OS X Upgrades. Not all OS X Upgrades will have GPU drivers as part of the development cycle and as a result you may see only one or two upgrades in the course of a version of OS X's lifecycle (aprox 18 months) . Nvidia on the other hand still releases a driver compatible for my card which is almost 7 years old about once every 2 or 3 months. Theres a lot Apple does do right but GPU drivers they do sporadically and sometimes poorly without fixing for ages in some cases.
Intel is notorious for its lousy OpenGL implementations/performance. A driver update is usually the only way to help an Intel onboard graphics...but often it's a case of driver roulette. Remember the viewport (and aux viewport, if no Nvidia card is present or not using Iray for it) uses OpenGL for displaying everything.
The reason I was trying to upgrade the driver was because DAZ Studio was crashing with a call to OpenGl when updating the viewport. It didn't matter if the Aux Viewport was on Iray or not. The problem was more me trying to do things too much and too fast for it to keep up. The Samsung laptop kept stopping me upgrade to the new driver saying the one I had was the best or that Samsung wasn't allowing it. I eventually worked out a how to do it and I am waiting to see if it still crashes, fingers crossed. I have noticed an increase in the speed the viewport updates when moving things around a scene, not when the AUX viewport is open on Iray though so I either have to wait on it re-drawing or remember to close it first. Where before moving the forest terrain or moving the cameras about was jerky it is now smooth.
You should be good to go.
It seems that laptop manufacturers would rather sell a new laptop than update drivers...more often than not, unless it is a major bug fix, they will not update from what was originally on it. Going to the manufacturer of the component (video mostly) is usually the only way to update...and often there are warnings about 'not supported', which are basically to protect the component manufacturer if something does go wrong and not that the driver is bad.
I'm trying to find the most efficient way to do this. I thought popping in a 680 card into my mac pro 3,1 (the card has 1500 plus cuda cores) would really speed things up, but it hasn't. I"m experiimenting with render setting, increasing light, fussing with tone mapping, setting various architectural and firefly filters. Nothing has much effects. A frame with a lot of bouncing indirect light will take 20 min to render and even then not perfectly.
I visited the apple store the other day and the friendly genius there said addint a second card wouldn't make a lot of difference as the cards don't work in tandem. A second card would simply power a second monitor. Is that true? He recommended an external housing in which more than one card can be mounted. Alienware makes something like this for their gaming machines. And also an SSD for system and content as that might speed up the pipeline.
Are you talking about speeding up moving around in the viewport or speeding up rendering? Two cards will speed up Iray rendering, but only one will power the display.
I need both but that good to know. So perhaps a second evga card will help with my render times...and might be worth the hassle of trying to figure out how to power it. My old Mac Pro 3,1 only sends a max of 300w to the pci slots.