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edging cam?

AngelAngel Posts: 1,204
edited September 2015 in The Commons

I have a new and fun idea but I need one thing. Is there a special camera, or a way built into daz where it only renders the edges

like so - http://azcoloring.com/coloring/p6T/y79/p6Ty79Gin.gif

I want to make my own coloring books for my kids, it can a really fun family project but I first need to know if this is possible.

Post edited by Angel on

Comments

  • CypherFOXCypherFOX Posts: 3,401
    edited September 2015

    Greetings,

    I'm not sure if this is what you want, precisely, but you could try these Manga style shaders or these 'visual style' shaders, both in 3Delight; they may come close, at least.

    Oddly enough I own the visual style ones, but outside of some early experiments, I don't really use them. :(

    --  Morgan

     

    Post edited by CypherFOX on
  • CybersoxCybersox Posts: 8,810
    edited September 2015

    If you want to do it in-render without postwork, Toonycam Pro offers the closest thing to a straight line rendering. That said, you can get much the same effect in photoshop or the gimp, and if you ONLY want line versions, you can save a lot of time by just render the preview rather than using iRay or 3Delight. There are a number of preset photoshop actions available to do that, or there are a number of tutorials online like - 

    Post edited by Cybersox on
  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited September 2015
    Cybersox13 said:

    If you want to do it in-render without postwork, Toonycam Pro offers the closest thing to a straight line rendering. That said, you can get much the same effect in photoshop or the gimp, and if you ONLY want line versions, you can save a lot of time by just render the preview rather than using iRay or 3Delight. There are a number of preset photoshop actions available to do that, or there are a number of tutorials online like - 

    Postwork is not evil incarnate...and is generally a much quicker/easier to use option, especially for something like this.

    Post edited by mjc1016 on
  • Cris PalominoCris Palomino Posts: 11,151

    TheNathanParable also has this geometry shell outliner.  It provides a good outline contour. 

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/21273/free-geometry-shell-toon-outline-gso-shader-updated-may-19th-2013-additional-bugfix#latest

    I took his example to Photoshop and applied the Stamp filter in the filter gallery and got this result which is a pretty good line piece.  You could then add more to it if you liked.

    http://prntscr.com/8d6150

  • AngelAngel Posts: 1,204

    Thanks very much guys. I appreciate the quick reply.

  • CybersoxCybersox Posts: 8,810
    mjc1016 said:
    Cybersox13 said:

    If you want to do it in-render without postwork, Toonycam Pro offers the closest thing to a straight line rendering. That said, you can get much the same effect in photoshop or the gimp, and if you ONLY want line versions, you can save a lot of time by just render the preview rather than using iRay or 3Delight. There are a number of preset photoshop actions available to do that, or there are a number of tutorials online like - 

    Postwork is not evil incarnate...and is generally a much quicker/easier to use option, especially for something like this.

    Absolutely.  There are some things that are best done within DAZ or Poser, but a few minutes in post can accomplish what hours in render can't.    

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,915

    I've actually found it hard to do edging in an ideal way with postwork, at least not without some help in the render.
    Unless you are doing it by hand, the problem becomes that shadows and highlights can really mess up where edges are picked up. Something like Tooncam can really help (although I'm not sure Tooncam actually WORKS in the current version of Daz, anyone know for sure?)

     

     

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,915
    edited September 2015

    If you want to do it without special stuff, my advice:

    Color objects like a map, so that there is a clear boundary between one surface and the next. Then use a very even/filled lighting (or, in 3DL, rely on ambient lighting and possibly shut off shadows for a lot of stuff)

    That way you can select a color region and edge it over layers, then work out what bits should/shouldn't have lines.

     

    Post edited by Oso3D on
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,155

    Also, Cris the link to that thread for the free Geometry Shell Outliner is dead but if you do to this thread:

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/10961/manga-style-visual-style-topic-update-may-19th-2013-gso-shader-added-bugfix-commercial/p1\

    The links there work fine.  I guess they removed the Dropbox link for what ever reason...

    Rich

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,915

    Actually, can anyone confirm the manga shader works in 4.8?

     

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,915

    Thanks for the Geo outlining thing! That works very well with stuff I'm working on.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,915
    edited September 2015

    This is a result of geo shell + flat gray coloring (using edge conversion in GIMP2 to get finer line details) + regular render.


    FYI, the geoshell thing can be tricky if you have displacement. I found it necessary to use a push modifier to 'sink the surface and then the geoshell had offset, and it took a few renders to get the lines roughly where they are supposed to be.

    AbolethD4.jpg
    2000 x 1236 - 2M
    Post edited by Oso3D on
  • djigneodjigneo Posts: 283
    edited September 2015

    I'm currently experimenting with a Graphic novel style of artwork, using DAZ Studio. Here's what I know relevant to your inquiry:

    1. Visual Style Shaders (and Manga Style Shaders) do work with 4.8. Visual Style Shaders are what I'm using for coloring (which you don't really need). I haven't successfully been able to create consistent-looking lines using this product (though they are certainly a solid shader for a toon style).
    2.  I've gotten the best outlines from the standard DAZ Scripted renderer > Outline feature. ToonyCam leverages this feature and tries to make it easier to use. ToonyCam is currently broken because the Standard DAZ Outline script is broken. There is a work-around, which you can read more about here.
      1. I have also attempted getting outlines using Visual Style Shaders, ToonyCam, Geometry Shell Outline Shader, and DAZ Toon Shaders.

    My suggestion would be to use the Standard DAZ outline script, and composite the ColorID and Normal outline files in GIMP, doing post-work as necessary. After a significant amount of experimentation, I have conceded that a certain amount of post-work is necessary -- mainly clean-up around meshes which have transparancy (since the outlines surround the mesh, rather than the resulting render). I pretty much always have to draw the character's eyes by hand.

    I hope this is helpful.

    toon_portrait.png
    635 x 1029 - 334K
    Post edited by djigneo on
  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,915

    I've also been going for a graphic novel style. Current direction is using Laplace edge in GIMP for the lines, then some other filters to get the image where I want it.

    You can see the results in the current chapter of my webcomic, if curious.

     

    It's a more subtle outlining than, say, that aboleth above, but I like it.

     

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,581
    edited September 2015
    timmins.william said:

    I've actually found it hard to do edging in an ideal way with postwork, at least not without some help in the render.
    Unless you are doing it by hand, the problem becomes that shadows and highlights can really mess up where edges are picked up. 

    I've noticed the same thing! One thing you might consider trying - render many separate passes in DAZ (fresnel, ao, zDepth, etc. - Shader Mixer is your friend). For me, this was key. The info contained in those analysis passes was then used to actually illustrate the scene (all automated, though not done in DAZ). In this example, fractal algorithms were at the heart of generating this line-art rendition of Stonemason's incredible Streets of Old London set:

     

     

    - Greg 

    2015-09-09-algovincian-london-test.jpg
    1152 x 648 - 594K
    Post edited by algovincian on
  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,915

    Yeah, with trying to do hard core edging stuff, I found it useful to do 3 or so different renders. One with matte surfaces, one with geoshell, some thinking about how to handle transparencies, etc.

     

    But my personal style works fine without all that jazz -- just using edging on a top layer, and some stuff underneath, and it looks very graphics novelish. Which is great, because the other stuff takes way more work (though renders faster with 3DL).

     

  • djigneodjigneo Posts: 283
    That's a pretty awesome looking render. What was your workflow for that? (You said not in Daz, so what programs did you use?)
  • Cris PalominoCris Palomino Posts: 11,151

    I've been hoping to see you put out a product; am dying to try this.  Anything coming yet?

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,581
    Cris Palomino said:

    I've been hoping to see you put out a product; am dying to try this.  Anything coming yet?

    I had been discussing the possibility of providing the illustration service through DAZ with Kevin back in April. He indicated that it would present some challenges and would talk to the team. This was all right about the time that Iray was being introduced, so I can only imagine how busy everybody was with that. The timing couldn't have been worse as far as DAZ's interest in a 3DL based product/service goes! lol

    Anyway, that's where things were left off. I'd still love to find a way to work with DAZ on this project.

    In the meantime, I've been busy stealing time away from real life to actually use the tool myself (just bought a mermaid and a demon to play with), and continuing development (adding full support for the DAZ default shader including reflection/refraction, creating new non-photorealistic rendering styles, etc.). I've also been working on a method to do extremely fast volumetrics, though that is more for the color painting algos than the sketching.

    - Greg

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,581
    djigneo said:
    That's a pretty awesome looking render. What was your workflow for that? (You said not in Daz, so what programs did you use?)

    Thanks, djigneo. I posted a lot of info about my workflow earlier this year in a Non-photorealistic Renders (NPR) thread. The thread includes the work of many others, too:

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/54697/non-photorealistic-renders-npr/p1

    Since that time, I've continued development on the process and new styles, but much of the info is still relevant. Specifically, the following posts from the thread explain certain aspects in a fair amount of detail.

    Individual render passes:

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/795474/#Comment_795474

    Intermediate files:

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/799406/#Comment_799406

    Painting style:

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/804286/#Comment_804286

    Animation/video:

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/814425/#Comment_814425

    If you have any questions, I'd be more than happy to try and answer them for you in that thread (this one has been hijacked enough already).

    - Greg

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,915

    This page is enormously useful for sharpening images (generally), and providing a more even color image to either posterize or otherwise use as a bottom layer to edged/outlined stuff:

    http://www.tankedup-imaging.com/no_flash_choice.html

     

    Seriously. It's made a world of difference to making a crisp, colorful base that you can tweak.

     

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