IRAY- how to adjust the level of the horizon?

AndyS

Hi,

if you use scenes with distinct environment, it sometimes is necessary, to be able to lower the horizon of the skydome. So the horizon fits to the corner / rim of the set. (see attachment)

OK, I know;
select finit sphere, try to adjust the diameter of the dome to the scene domensions.
Next there are parameters for "Dome Origin Y", "Dome Orientation Y" or even "Ground Origin Y" if ground set to manual.

But which one to use?
How can I check (without waiting hours for the first render image) that the dome tightly encases my set? Same for the level of the horizon?

Any usefull hints?

 

Andy

AndyS

Hm,

upload of image didn't work.

but now ...

Kerya

Use the Aux Viewport?

http://www.versluis.com/2015/05/how-to-use-the-interactive-preview-renderer-in-daz-studio/

 

Fishtales

Environment

Sun and sky only

Draw Dome on

SS Horizon height to minus. Minus 1 draws it in quite far so something between that and 0 for the scene.

You wont have a sky in the render though.

Changing the Ground Texture Scale also changes the horizon. I have found 600 to be handy sometimes.

AndyS

Hi Sandy,

so "SS Horizon hight" seems to be (at least from the name) the 1st choice parameter. Although I don't understand how to calulate the value depending on the dome radius and camera angle.

At the moment I used the "ground origin y" while set it to manual.

@Keyra:

[quote]How can I check (without waiting hours for the first render image) that the dome tightly encases my set? Same for the level of the horizon?[/quote]

The problem is that for iRay the render of the aux viewport needs the same time as the spot render in the work space. Depending on the scene this could take a lots of minutes up to some hours for the first raugh picture.

 

I thought I missed a special option to show an auxiliary line in the working viewport to indicate the dome horizon while arranging the scene.
At the moment you have only trial and error which takes long long time to set it up halfways.

 

Andy

Tobor

You shouldn't have to wait hours just for the scene to start rendering. I'm asuming this is an exaggeration for "waitiing for like forever," but if not, there's something wrong with your scene.

Of it's a matter of lots of scene elements slowing things down, set up your dome in a new scene with nothig else in it. That should render very quickly.

If the in-place render in the Aux viewport is taking too long, then make test renders into smaller separate windows. I usually do renders no more than 500px or so. For one thing, they are more accurate. The Aux viewport renders run a form of Iray that does not support all of its features. The resulting scene is not guaranteed to be exactly what you'll get when you do a full render.

AndyS

Hi Tobor,

Tobor said:

Of it's a matter of lots of scene elements slowing things down, set up your dome in a new scene with nothig else in it. That should render very quickly.

nice idea.

But you need the ground elements and other objects building the boundary for what is left of the sky dome.
Of cause you can take some characters and inner objects out for the test render. But especially detailed landscape (building the boundary) is the reason for slow rendering.

So an auxiliary line as we have for the picture frame in the render pane, would be very helpful !!

 

Andy

Tobor

smftrsd72 said:

But you need the ground elements and other objects building the boundary for what is left of the sky dome.
Of cause you can take some characters and inner objects out for the test render. But especially detailed landscape (building the boundary) is the reason for slow rendering.

Just to make sure we have the same terminology, Iray doesn't (usually) use skydomes. It has a virtual Environment dome that allows Iray light to pass through. Skydomes are physical geometry that will not permit Iray's environment light to pass, unless you literally make a hole in the geometry. 

So if it is indeed the Environment dome you're using, you should be able to visualize the placement of the buildings in the scene, perhaps using simple primitive planes as stand-ins, and use a separate scene to orient the Environment dome, to at least get it in the ballparkYou can rorate the dome in all directions.

As you mention, if you absolutely need to have a reference for setting the Environment dome, you can hide all but very critical scene elements, make your adjustements, then unhide them for the final render.

The slow start to rendering suggests a large scene database, and it takes a while for Iray to collect all those elements in preparation for the render. If you're really going into the 15+ minutes range, I'd look to ways to simplify the geometry on non-closeup objects (decimate it), and also such things as available RAM. The latter would be particularly true if there is a heavy amount of hard drive thrashing going on during the scene database creation, indicating heavy use of virtual RAM space by your machine.

AndyS

Hi Tobor,

Tobor said:

Just to make sure we have the same terminology, Iray doesn't (usually) use skydomes. It has a virtual Environment dome that allows Iray light to pass through. Skydomes are physical geometry that will not permit Iray's environment light to pass, unless you literally make a hole in the geometry. 

yes of cause, the normal iray environment dome. (Dome & Scene)

Tobor said:

So if it is indeed the Environment dome you're using, you should be able to visualize the placement of the buildings in the scene, perhaps using simple primitive planes as stand-ins, and use a separate scene to orient the Environment dome, to at least get it in the ballparkYou can rorate the dome in all directions.

As you mention, if you absolutely need to have a reference for setting the Environment dome, you can hide all but very critical scene elements, make your adjustements, then unhide them for the final render.

But why must it be necessary to use such complecated workarounds?

See: for cameras you get guidelines indicating the frame,
In the render view you get lines indicating the frame.

So why not for the iRay dome?
Many users here in the forum already complained about it.

And please keep in mind: you have to practice your workarounds for every new adjustment of the camera. !!

Andy

Tobor

I don't think it's all that complicated.

The work-around is for a scene of your own construction that for whatever reason is taking "hours" just to see a first image. Assuming you're not grossly exaggerating, that's FAR from normal. I think the longest I ever had to wait, for a scene that contained city blocks of buildings, was maybe two minutes. I have very modest GPU-accelerated system.

As for why there's no guidelines for a virtual dome that only exists as an Iray process, and is viewable only in an Iray render, well -- there's the answer. To see the dome, you have to render the scene. I'm not trying to be flip, but you don't see any rendered effects until you render the scene - complex shader effects like metal, bump maps, displacement, and so on. This is rudimentary to the process.

AndyS

Tobor said:

As for why there's no guidelines for a virtual dome that only exists as an Iray process, and is viewable only in an Iray render, well -- there's the answer. To see the dome, you have to render the scene. I'm not trying to be flip, but you don't see any rendered effects until you render the scene - complex shader effects like metal, bump maps, displacement, and so on. This is rudimentary to the process.

You only see the boundaries of your picture only when you render. But in advance you have the auxiliary lines indicating the later picture boundaries in your work / posing area.
So you see, that is no argument.

Fishtales

If you are using Sky and Sun, with just that in the scene, you can see the horizon line. The sky is slightly lighter than the ground. You can also adjust the ground size which can adjust the HDRI in the dome which lowers and raises the horizon. Scaling up the environment and objects you are using can also be used to hide the horizon line. Changing the diameter, height, and depth using finite box/dome, and changing the breadth, depth and height settings also works, sometimes.

AndyS

Pardon,

Fishtales said:

If you are using Sky and Sun, with just that in the scene, you can see the horizon line. The sky is slightly lighter than the ground.

where can I get the line visible in the working space?

Just change the setting to "Sun-Sky Only" and ...  -  ... Nothing.
You're not talking about after starting the render?

Tobor

You seem determined to misunderstand how rendering effects work. You will not see any visualization of how Iray interprets the scene until you render. The Envioronment dome is a feature of the Iray renderer, not of Daz Studio. I have already explained that rendered effects have to be rendered before you will see them. This is a simple fact.

Your hardware is unable to begin the render of your scene after a long wait. You will simply need to find a way to set up the dome off-scene, or hide as many scene elements as you can for position, or substitute scene elements with stand-ins. With any of these you should be able to see the rendered version much quicker.

AndyS

What I say is, that the limits of the later picture (the frame as the result of the render) is visible during the work long before you start to render.
So the same calculation for the horizon line shouldn't be that problem.

That's all.

Fishtales

Are you using the AUX Viewport set to Iray to view the scene as you set it up in the main viewport? If you do it that way you will see the horizon before you have to render.