Help Me Clear Things Up!
tom.santomartino_8315241f65
Posts: 69
As you all know I've been away from CG work for a while but am now getting into it again. Is Michael 6 and Victoria 6 the Genesis 2 male and female? This has confused me. Before I stopped doing Daz Studio/Poser work, we were given a Genesis figure family--including children and then there was Michael 5 which was a separate Genesis Model. So now we have Genesis 2 and I'm confused, because there still seems to be content being made for the original Genesis figure--and I believe that there is a Genesis 3 figure as well--but it's not free--am I right? Is Scott the new Genesis 3 Male? There is no 6th Generation Freak right? At least not yet. I'm behind so please explain the differences to me. There doesn't seem to much Genesis 2 male content, but it seems I can adapt first Generation Genesis outfits to it.
I'm also confused as to how the Install Manager installs Poser Specific content. It seems like everything now comes with a Daz Studio and DSON Poser file; but some characters can be installed directly into a Poser runtime without being installed into Daz Studio's confusing content library. I had my installer set to put the DSON Module into my Poser 10 installation, but I didn't want Poser specific content to go to the Poser 10 runtime, but anohter runtime of my own choosing, so I changed the path for Poser content to that folder---will that work, or should I download Poser Specific files and just use the Install Manager to install Daz Studio contnet.
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Comments
yes to your first question. Scot is Geneis 2. No 6th gen freak yet...maybe never.
There isn't as much Genesis 2 male content as women of course.
Can't answer poser questions. But M5 was Genesis, and not a separate figure. Cept maybe something special for poser...
As far as generational differenes, there will be dispute as to real differences benefits. But the fact is Genesis 3 has no men yet. Genesis 3 can't use older textures. But Genesis 3 does have some nice improvements.
If you are just getting back, Genesis 1 or 2 would be fine to work with.
I had to buy the Michael 5 shape for Genesis I guess would be more accurate. There seems to be a lack of M5 specific content too--though he can wear any Genesis clothing, I've been dissapointed with there not being as many characters/ textures for him. Micahel 4/Freak 4 was the last non-Genesis generation of Daz Figures that would work natively in Poser. I had to pay extra for the M5 Pro Pack because otherwise M5 lacked male genitalia, which I though was somewhat unfair since a real human being has genitals and Poser's humans always had genitals; even the women. There were 3rd party gens available. I liked the old system better with the hip switching--you could turn the gens on or off, but that system was abandoned in favor or add-ons for some unknown reason and in some older versons of Daz Studio for the older figures hip switching stopped working, though I haven't tried it yet in 4.8.
I still like Poser and don't thnk Genesis is well implemented in Poser, so if I'm going to use the Genesis figure I'm going to use Daz Studio--although it loads content much more slowly and I hope future generations of the software address that, and I'm using the 64 Bit version. I hate to say it, but the 4th Generation of Daz figures also work better in Daz Studio than Poser--the 3rd Generation of Michael and his brother David seemed to work better.
Genesis 3 female takes a fair bit of work to get into Poser too and you need DAZ studio to do it, Midnight stories has some tutorials on it.
the base figures are not V6, M6 etc they are Genesis 2 female and genesis 2 male who are in the free starter essentials.
Genesis 3 Female is also downloadable as a starter essential.
It is best to work with those as free before deciding to buy any characters which are morphs of the base figures and things like HD addons.
I typically don't work with many female figures; so it's a moot point to me. So I wonder why there isn't a Genesis 3 Male? Scott just came out right? OR has he been around for a while? So if he's new I wonder why he's not a 3rd Genesis Generation figure and still a 2nd Generation one.
I have a lot of first Generation Genesis content--I have very little for the 2nd Generation.
Because, over course of the Michael/Victoria figures there has always been a delay between them...Vicky first with Mike a few months later. Typically it coincides with the major Spring and Autumn sales events.
Scott is a Generation 2 Male. He came out after Genesis 3 Female was launched, hence the confusion, I suspect you are not the only one that though Scott was Generation 3, but he is not. G3M is highly likely to come out during the next two months, either during the PC sale, or just after it. The first G3M character morph will be Michael 7, but you do not have to buy this, as Genesis 3 male will be free (or at least I assume it will). If you want the Genesis 3 Males Gens, then you will have to buy the pro back.
Well to be honest, with the morphability of the prior Genesis generations, I don't know if I need the Gen 3 male when it does arrive--I'll take the free version, and other vendors have 3rd party gens that are just as good if I want them without having to spring for the Pro Pack. With the add on shapes for Genesis and a good selection of texture maps, it can essentially look like anyone I want it to. I have the legacy shapes for the Genesis figure too. I guess I'll have to see. I didn't need new gens for Freak 5 as he's a Genesis first generation shape and the ones I have work just fine with him and I looked at the list of what came with the Pro Pack for him and I didn't see that part listed so I expect there wasn't a special set of gens made for him. You want to know a secret, the Genesis male gens work with the Genesis 2 figure--I am not sure about the texture map--but there's probably a work around for that.
It might not be so easy with G3M when it arrives, they use a different way of mapping the textures, and it is difficult (although not impossible) to use skins from any of the previous generations on Genesis 3. I would stick to Genesis 1 and 2 for now, it will be easier. Not sure I have tried the genesis gens on generation 2 (although I know the M4 ones work using autofit), however in any case the textures will definitely show seams, due to them being geografts.
Seams can be dealt with in postwork. I still like M4 and have a lot of stuff for him. He's by far my favorite Daz Male figure to date. IT would be very nice if Daz would simply sell the genitals separately--I don't like having to buy a bunch of stuff I probably won't use just for that one part. IT would be more fair to give people the choice; people who are offended by such things could skip it and those who want it can buy it and just get other content they want to use.
I guess I'm confused too because we have http://www.daz3d.com/victoria-6-michael-6-hd-add-on-bundle, which is why I thought the Genesis 2 Male was Michael 6. I am not finding many Michael 6 specific things. When I search on it I have found Scott and Giani--both of who you need to buy the pro pack to have them be anatomically correct. Well I guess I missed the boat on that one--the big sale that was just on. I tend to like Giani better; so are Giani and Scott considered to be Michael 6 figures or are they figures unto themselves?
All the adult male pro packs contain the same genital package, you only need to buy one. I think I got M6 pro pack around a year ago for 30 dollars or so on promotion, so if you buy at the right time they are not much more expensive than 3rd party add ons, and imho the M6 pro pack contains a bunch of good stuff, like the uniforms etc. You just have to be patient and jump on a good deal when it comes along.
The only thing that is specific to M6, as opposed to G2M will be a handful of characters (probably no more than 4 or 5) that require the M6 shape, and maybe the M6 uv map (though not always, as most PA characters use the G2M base or the M5 UV set, as both are available for free). All hair, clothing etc is specific to all G2M males, so you do not need to looks for M6 specific items like you used to do for M4, M3 etc. I understand a lot of people still like the older models they are familar with, like M4 and V4, but for me the Genesis 1 and 2 models are far more powerful due to their ability to use skins, clothing and morphs from most previous generations. They also morph into almost anything, and bend much better than the old models.
Seams are one thing...the total, complete revamp/remapping of the UVs is much more than seams.
Apparently I have two sets of male genitalia, Genesis male gens and M5 Male gens and I found if I picked the wrong ones then the texture maps for M5 don't apply correctly. One looks like a male sex symbol in the library, the other just says Genesis male genitals. I don't get it. When I load M5 it says Genesis--not M5 and then the smart content doesn't always match. I also had a problem with the layout where my shaping sliders weren't coming up. I guess some layouts work better than others. I haven't been able to find the M6 Pro Pack Here, when I search on it I only get Giani and Scott. Can you send me a link to the product?
M5 is just a morph of the Genesis base, and smart content is linked the base, not the morph. Thus any genesis characters and clothing will appear in smart content for your loaded Genesis character, including female clothing, poses etc.
This is a link to the M6 bundle
https://www.daz3d.com/michael-6-pro-bundle
There is only 1 set of genitals for Genesis male, M5 does not have its own (same is true of Genesis 2, there is only one set), if you are seeing two in your smart data, you may need to reset the smart database, and then reimport it all (this is easier than it sounds). If you have purchased a 3rd party (ie non DAZ) set of gens for Genesis, then that could explain the appearence of 2, though most 3rd party products do not have smart data.
I suspect the genital icons you are seeing for M5 are the material presets for applying M5 gen skins to the genital model.
True there aren't a ton of M5 character sets, but at the same time remember that you can apply M4 UV's to your Genesis1 and therefore use any M4 character texture too, plus with the GenX plugin you can also import very close to the same morph shape for your favorite M4 character onto your Genesis1 too. If any of the Genesis2males textures catch your attention there's a product by Slosh which allow you top put V6/M6 UVs on your Genesis1 so you can use those M6 textures too. (http://www.daz3d.com/victoria-6-and-michael-6-uvs-for-genesis)
I feel like I got suckered into buying a lot more Genesis2 content that I don't really need or use, when I prefer by far working with Genesis1. I often hear murmurs about how Genesis1 doesn't have enough content support, but since I can use any of my V4/M4 stuff (and the content makers are still currently creating tons of V4/M4 products) I don't really see a much limitation for Genesis1, which can use the same clothing on a male or a female shape equally well.
Jonstark, thanks for your inights. I put M6 Pro Pack on my wish list, but to be honest I think I like Scott better when it comes down to it--in any event I will have to wait for another sale to get either or neither. I do hope they continue with future generations of the Freak; the Freak 4 was probably the closest to real work powerlifter proportions, the original Freak was one of my favorite characters, the hands and feet were a problem with the first generation though; the Genesis Freak 3 shape allows for one to have more true to life proportions on the feet and hands. I used to have to scale the Freak up so that the feet and hands were in proportion with the rest of the body--but then I had issues with conforming clothing.
I had a problem with my Daz Studio interface and reset it; Smart Content was not showing up for the right figure. The content organziation in Studio is confounding to me. If I apply materials from one section they apply correctly; I thought there were two sets of gens because I was having mapping issues when I tried to apply the genital texture for M5 to the gens. I also had problems with shaping not showing up. So since I switched workspaces or reset it, it seems to be working better now and the smart content seems to be coming up better. I did already delete and reinport my content database--I guess if I have further issues I can try that again.
Which workspace works best for you guys? I tried the beta one, but I didn't like the yellow outline it places around the figure that's selected--can you turn that off?
Jonstark, one thing I can't undestand is why Daz hasn't provided us with a V2 and M2 shape for Genesis. They were still good figures with a good high res texture map. M2 was low on system resources and still better than any of the people that Smith Micro has provided from James forward.
I am using the latest version of studio, not the beta.
You can get rid of the horrible yellow highlight, I have no idea why DAZ makes it the default, as it looks awful. It is not obvious how to remove it, as it is not under preferences, what you have to do is:
1) Open Windows->Panes->Draw Settings.
2) Click on General, and in the right panel locate "Draw Style"
3) Select "Bounding Box Only"
A V2 and M2 shape for Genesis would only give you the V2 and M2 shapes, which imho were not the greatest shapes. However you could use these to create clones so your Genesis figures could wear Generation 1 and 2 clothing. In any case you would not get the ability to use M2/V2 skins on Genesis, just like we can not use Generation 3 skins, even though we have the shapes. The issue is down to the seamlines being placed differently. Generation 2, Genesis 1 and 2 all use the same seamlines, however Genesis 3 breaks from that. The only current way to use older skins is to use something like texture converter to translate to M4/V4 textures first, and then apply these to Genesis 1 and 2.
Where is the Texture Converter? I can't seem to find it in the Daz store, maybe it's moved elsewhere? I was just thinking the other day that it's a shame that the Concord sci-fi skins (http://www.daz3d.com/concord-navy) are all for V2/M2, as I think they would be an ideal solution for outfitting a horde of low poly background characters in sci-fi scenes (such as the reduced resolution M3/V3 characters) and I'm betting if I could find a texture converter to change from the v2/m2 to the higher generations I could make good use of those old Concord products.
Edit: wait, I found it here: http://www.daz3d.com/texture-convertor-2-tc2 Though I'm not sure it will do what I need...
To get V2/M2 skins converted you need the original texture converter, and unless I am mistaken, that is no longer available. TC2 only converts Gen 3 -> Gen 4 skins.
You could send a message to 3DU (they created the original one, as well as TC2) to see if they can help
Thanks Havos, I think I'll do that.
Oh, I'm using the current version of Studio too, not the Beta, except under the Workspaces/layouts it says: Full Service (Beta). I'm using Hollywood Blvd currently because it's more similar to what I was used to with the last version of Studio I used 2 years ago. Thanks for telling me how to get rid of the outline, I might try Full Service for a bit then. What's your favorite?
So if I use the Generation 3 shapes I can only use Genesis texture maps and clothing--so if I want to use the older content I'd just be better off working with the Gen 3 figures; I've not used the shapes, so I've not experimented. They are alluring because you don't have to use morph injectors, which I found to be a burdensome system involving too may extra steps. At least the Generation 4 figures have the power injector in Daz Studio (which I wish worked in Poser), which is an easy way to add all the morphs at once. I have tons Geneation 3 content.
M2 has very good musculature, very natural looking when beefed up. I guess the only advantage to having a M2 Genesis shape would be the ability to use newer content with him. It seems like every new generation of figures has to have new mapping. I tried to use a Genesis 1 texture map on the Genesis 2 male and it didn't look right. The older figures definitely work better in Poser, which I still use, I've not even attempted to use Genesis in Poser--it doesn't make much sense to me since it works better in Daz Studio.
I use city limits lite, as if gives me quick access to all the controls I need/use.
If you get the genesis 3 legacy shapes you can use all the clothing from M3, D3, V3 etc on your genesis characters. If you get generation X and the relevant add on packs, you can also transfer all your character morphs/special morphs etc onto Genesis. Textures from all the old clothing will work fine, the one thing that will not is the generation 3 character textures (ie skins).
Morph injections work ok on M4, but I would much rather use Genesis as it loads fast, and once the morphs for it have been installed, there are all there on the character waiting to be used. An M2 genesis shape will not help you put your Genesis content on M2, but will allow you to put your M2 content onto Genesis.
To give you an idea of how easy it is to see the old shapes on Genesis 1 and 2, below is a quick render of Genesis 2 Male using the Freak 3 shape, and wearing clothing designed for Minotaur 6. The shape very similar to the original F3, but with G2M the figure will bend much better than the original freak figure, and it is easy to apply the many skins/clothing etc from new and old generations, whereas with F3 your limited to the clothing made for him.
Thanks so much for clarifying that. I have a ton of stuff for those older generations and it's good to know they will work on the legacy shapes without a problem. As I mentioned before, the original Freaks hands/feet were always a problem for me, but with the Genesis shape it will be much easier to get the look I want without having to upscale the rest of the body to make it look like normal human proportions.
One thing that's daunting to me is that sometimes when I select an item and double click the texture to apply it to it, it doesn't apply. For instance I loaded the Elebeast up and added his trunk and tusks, the body and tust textures loaded fine, but the trunk took several attempts before the blue skin would apply to the trunk part--which is a separate figure. I don't get it. I selected it in my scene window "eletrunk" and it still didn't want to load. So when I got it to load right I saved the figure to my library as a scene file so that I don't have to struggle with it again--unless I want to turn it red or gray, For some reason the trunk was stubborn though. I tried to apply it from both the smart content area and then from the Content Library tab--but I did get it to load, unless there is an issue with double clicks in Studio--but it seemed to be trying to load the texture, unless I didn't give it enough time and confused it by clicking it again.
Did you also select the surface?
You to select both the item and the surface you want to apply the preset to.
So I need to select the surface in the materials tab then too?
If the material preset for the trunk has been written properly, then in theory you only need to select the relevant Genesis figure in order for the materials of the trunk to be applied correctly. You only need to select the surface when applying generic shaders that were not originally written to apply to the part in question.