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You are right that it is very dubious how e-on could recognise that a model was exported from TPF.
Anyone has an idea how it could be done ? Especially when TPF exported model model was imported to a different application and then re-exported.
A different question is if it is legal for e-on to forbid distribution of meshes which have been created from scratch - I doubt it.
They would have to go to court with this, and probably such EULA statement would be pronounced illegal.
I am sure that such unrealistic conditions as e-on imposes on 3D artists will erode e-on's reputation among 3D community.
I hadn't even thought about the legality of E-on's EULA, but now that you mention it, it does seem to be sitting on pretty shaky ground. I the argument would go something like this: the creation of detailed and realistic vegetation is very hard (if not IMPOSSIBLE) to achieve with conventional modelling software. Our tools allow artists to create objects that they would otherwise not be able to, and therefore objects made with TPF are intrinsically tied to the software, and further, only fair that we get an additional slice.
I doubt it would hold up if someone with the right sized pockets cared to test it. Maybe a class action is in order.
Edit: and no, I don't see how they could tell what software was used. The DRM built into TPFs native format, so exporting via another format should make it unrecognisable. Basically we could end up with all sorts of artists chased around in witch hunts.
I wonder and could not stop thinking about why E-on make such a restrictive EULA.
They claim that TPF is the best software for making plants, but their EULA complicate the legal usage
of creations made with it in such a way that I doubt it is worth the price.
Would be good if someone else will come with the competitive software without such restrictions.
Hi Guys and Girs :-)
I know TPF pretty well, since I worked on its development for 6 years.
Bad news for those who think that it would be impossible for e-on to know that TPF exported model was generated by TPF :
TPF uses a very characteristic mesh decimation method, which creates distinctive pattern of vertexes :
http://imageshack.us/a/img266/654/i0ih.gif
Probably retopology of the mesh would transform the mesh points position in such way, that it would become impossible to recognize its TPF origin.
There are some automatic retopology programs (ex. 3D Coat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmU95Ciyw_M) .
The question is, would it be possible on a complex multi billion polygon tree model, and if it is worth whole burden ?
Probably some specific retopology tool should be devised to do it efficiently.
And what if e-on ask you "how did you made this model ? Show us your original files"
(Well, probably if they wanted to sue someone, it would be on their side to prove that models came from TPF, and I agree that it would be very doggy law suit)
Or you are the author of a 100% original work, and you have your copyrights, and no one is then entitled to instruct you how you should make use of your work, or the work contains some elements copyrighted by someone else.
If someone does no like e-on imposed restrictions, there is plenty of other nice & free software for generation of 3D plants.
You can read more about 3D plants and everything concerning virtual botany (creation of 3D trees, 3D flowers etc...) on my latest website :
http://greengene.republika.pl/
It is still under construction, so sorry if something does not work yet.
Check links section for other nice & free 3D plant creation software (like L-Studio or Tree Sketch)
Take care,
czarnyrobert
http://troc.cgsociety.org/gallery/
Eon's garden has good guards lol! That account was specially created to put a stop on how to circumvent Eon's commercial restrictions. I am impressed!.
IMO DAZ and Eon are two worlds too far apart for hobbyists like me. I owned Vue software till a few years ago but I gave it up when I switched from Poser to Studio.
This being said some artists using Vue software I follow on Deviantart make me consider now and then to go the Vue road again. TPF with Vue's populate function could make wonders. I could afford it but it would be a waste of time and money...
Hi Erdehel,
What do you mean by "That account was specially created to put a stop on how to circumvent Eon’s commercial restrictions." ?
If you have on mind my my post, well :
1) I posted it, personally, not on e-on's account.
2) I am an oldtimer, (check for czarnyrobert on google, CGTalk or Renderosity) I had my account here long time ago, but when I tried to login, it seems that it does no longer exist or password was wrong, and I didn't have the old e-mail address to recuperate password, this is why I had to create new account.
By the way, do you have any idea if is possible to change user name ?
When I registered, it generated the name green.gene from my e-mail, I'd like to change it to czarnyrobert, but it does not work.
It says "administrator does not allow user-names to be changed" :-(
Hi,
That account was created today and it was your first post. That surely sounds as it was created for this special occasion. Don't misunderstand me: I agree with what you said. I don't specially like Eon's restrictive commercial approach though.
As for your account, I can't help you. Most sites don't allow changing the username. Try to contact Daz's support and explain your situation, they may possibly help you recover your old account.
:-) OK So it was a kind of coincidence.
I am working on my personal website about 3D plants, and I was browsing through the internet forums discussions about 3D plants edition software like TPF, Speed Tree, Onyx, Xfrog, to find topics where I could inform people about my website. This is how I run on this TPF discussion here.
Quite strange that there is no option to define user's name here.
Well, not big problem, I can be here Green Gene.
Still I sign posts with my better known nickname czarnyrobert.
If you want your name changed please PM me (or confirm it here, of I suppose) and I will do it for you - it's best to give a couple of alternatives in case the name is already taken.
In general, it's not a good idea to discuss practical ways to get round an EULA - until it is found to be legally unenforceable we would expect users to respect it, even if it's practically unenforceable. That doesn't mean the terms can't be discussed, just that the discussion should avoid anything that looks like trying to break the current terms.
... and a misinterpretation from me. Sorry for that :red:
Carrara can create some pretty cool plants too
and cheaper!
I have even loaded wind and rustle from Carrara on them in Daz studio using morph loader and the obj exports of several instances along timeline and gotten the animated into iClone using the facial expression editor and dummy bone to drive the morphs via phonemes
here is a plant I made creating my own leaf and flower
a standard rose bush https://app.box.com/s/z7u2963watv6h6kekoxb
no restrictions
@ czarnyrobert: thanks for the heads up. There are indeed a good many free plant generators out there. It is just disheartening that such an expensive and potentially good product as TPF has such draconian restrictions on models that are essentially the IP of those that use the software.
Hello,
That, to me, does not look like mesh decimation, it appears to be mesh creation from nurbs(or similar math calculated) surface. I can get similar results from various nurbs modelers, when exporting through mesh export algorithms.
IMHO
Seems to me it is not the only software that generates this kind of vertex and mesh pattern. It looks VERY familiar. Like mesh generated by some nurbs modeller. Rhino for instance.
And, well, in case of 3D Coat, how would e-on suppose to handle voxelized source model? Or re-dynameshed mesh of zBrush?
Wendy, thank you for this very beautiful model ! :-) If you have a place where you offer more free models of plants, I could add a link to my GREEN GENE website about 3D plants.
Steve, you are right, this is what I had on mind - in TPF object definition is procedural (with procedural splines), however for user object appears always in polygonal format, so we refereed to it as mesh subdivision/decimation. But it is as you say, procedurally defined nurb is translated to polygons, and in the process such specific mesh is generated.
I see little point in trying to overcome EULA restrictions on TPF objects.
If someone tries to sell his TPF models, e-on maybe won't go to court, but they can easily block his account, and he won't get any updates and they won't sell him next version...
It does not make much sense to me to try to explain that my TPF tree was made in Rhino.
If you don't like TPF restrictions, better try a completely free TreeSketch which does not impose any restrictions or one of many free 3D plants applications (check in software links on my website)
I know this is an old thread but e-on have now made their EULA rules far more relaxed
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/wiki/ThePlantFactory/index.php/Documentation/Appendices/What_Changed_in_the_2014.5_EULA
Wow, I am impressed. Now we can use the plants in 3d games and produce plants as deliverable for contract work. That really improves the utility of TPF, thanks E-On! http://www.3dnld.com/virtual_venus_the_3d_flytrap_game
I am reading that as a 2D/sprite type game since it states "in a game where the assets cannot be extracted", which most game assets can.
You, or your clients, are allowed to distribute content created with the Plant Factory 2014.5 provided that the content is part of a pre-packaged application (typically a game) and that the content is in a proprietary format that no-one else can read and cannot be easily extracted.
Still it is nice they are being more reasonable. Now if they get it to where I can purchase plants in .obj or .3ds formats, I will be thrilled.
As a quick test I exported a standard tree as a .fbx format and imported into Daz and rendered with an AofA Advanced Ambient Light and Distance light. Rendered really nice and was far better quality than a .obj file.
Took a while to render but expected that due to the detail of the leaves etc.
I am reading that as a 2D/sprite type game since it states "in a game where the assets cannot be extracted", which most game assets can.
You, or your clients, are allowed to distribute content created with the Plant Factory 2014.5 provided that the content is part of a pre-packaged application (typically a game) and that the content is in a proprietary format that no-one else can read and cannot be easily extracted.
Still it is nice they are being more reasonable. Now if they get it to where I can purchase plants in .obj or .3ds formats, I will be thrilled.
The Venus Flytap pictured above was designed by me and rendered native in TPF. The Venus Flytrap in my game have are close, but actually re-topo's so that TPF unique mesh structures are removed. The game venus "arm" was made completely in ZB re-rigged to snap, has standard human readable UV's and decimated to a few thousand polys.
BTW I did ask and received info that owners of TPF could publish their plants in 3d rendered games and sent this game to E-On as an example and was encouraged with the response and the more reasonable EULA.