Physics Plugin Community Feedback [Commercial]
tscott_f9a8e65d7c
Posts: 50
My company is in the process of developing a physics plugin for Daz Studio and I wanted to take the time to solicit community feedback for this plugin. Please respond to our short survey and let us know what you think.
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Comments
Very interesting project. I've filled out your survey. :)
Thanks for your feedback, JonnyRay.
Also filled it out, good luck!
The following question was asked in the survey so I thought I'd post it here and respond for everyone to see.
"A 'physics plugin' is a very general statement. Is it for body-physics? Is it for hair? Cloth? All of them? Would it be for all figures or only select figures?"
This is still in the very early prototype stage and exactly what is going to be possible is still not entirely known. I'm getting my feet wet with both the Bullet Physics SDK and the Daz SDK. That being said, what I want to achieve for this product are the following:
-Rigid Body and Soft Body dynamics
-Dynamics for Cloth and hair
-Collision for figures (which ones? not sure if there will be particular challenges for different figures yet)
Of all these, hair is the most questionable. I haven't even started investigation on this so I don't have a clue what will be possible. But this is one of the reasons I'm developing this plugin so I'm really hoping that I can make that work.
Looks to have some great potential. :)
Some of the survey comments are about cloth dynamics for existing clothing pieces. That is a very high priority for me. That is one of the main reasons I wanted to develop this. As a Daz user myself, this plugin is being developed based on some of my own needs for projects I have in production. I will be experimenting with cloth dynamics very soon and will be able to see the limits of what I can and can't do with this.
Make sure it has a wind or fan feature:)
I would like to have an alternative simplified universal algorithm like Verlet in ICE Softimage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verlet_integration
http://vimeo.com/1678729
http://vimeo.com/4177785
I've started a blog for this project. I plan to update the blog about once a week and post images and videos as they are available.
http://magiqueprod.wordpress.com/
A softbody and dynamics all in one would be very good. Though it may be better to seperate them so avoid complications in programming. (not that I program)
I am integrating both rigid body and soft body dynamics into this plugin. They need to be together so that they can work together. For example, we need to have soft body interact with rigid bodies so that you can put a cloth over a table, etc.
Some comments on the survey have been that I didn't provide enough information to answer the questions or not enough information about the packages to make an informed decision. As far as the packages, I assume that meant Physx/Apex and Bullet Physics, which are considerations. If that's the case, then you can find more information about these products at the following links:
http://bulletphysics.org/wordpress/
http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/physx
As far as the plugin itself, we aim to provide rigid body and soft body dynamics at the very minimum. One goal is to allow people to turn existing clothing into soft body objects. If we can do this with hair then that's part of the plan as well. However, we are not far enough along to make that determination yet. I'm hoping to try some hair tests within the next week.
The best thing is to keep an eye on my new blog and look for updates on the project.
http://magiqueprod.wordpress.com/
"Dynamic hair" could be cheaply enough simulated by "clothifying" transmapped hair, couldn't it?
I'm not sure what is meant by trans mapped, but I believe the concept you propose could work, in theory. However, I won't make any claims on that until I've experimented more myself. I'm certainly hoping it can work and have high hopes, but we'll have to wait and see after I've done more experimentation.
I really hope to get new plug in which can achieve,, smooth cloth animation easy,,
I hope to make clothing and hair,,, which can work by Physics simulation,, in daz studio,,,
like that,,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4NCS86MoCw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ALZHi9me2s&feature=player_detailpage
Those videos are the kind of thing I'm looking to achieve with soft body for clothing and hair.
I'm not sure what is meant by trans mapped, but I believe the concept you propose could work, in theory. However, I won't make any claims on that until I've experimented more myself. I'm certainly hoping it can work and have high hopes, but we'll have to wait and see after I've done more experimentation.Given the work I've been doing on a new surface shader for transparency mapped hair, it's probably a bit more difficult than that to get a realistic look.
Tommy ... the geometry for transparency mapped hair is like sets of ribbons, to which a transparency map is applied to make the ribbon look like individual hairs (at least at the tips). I think for realistic looking movement, you'd have problems just turning that into a soft body. It isn't going to look like curve or strand based hairs in other engines.
I'm thinking more along the lines of default Daz hair on figures for a starting point. Other possibilities with Garibaldi Hair or Look At My Hair is another thing altogether. I only just got Look At My Hair myself and don't have any idea on how it does the geometry. The examples shown in the iClone videos above are more what I'm looking to achieve at least in the prototype phase.
Hi everyone,
It surprised me a little to see that my video of Genesis figures given moving cloth and hair in iclone was being referred to here - when I posted it in The Commons as a newcomer to the forums no-one made any comment at all. (I only received one nice remark about it from WendyLovesCats in the Carrara forum.)
It may be relevant to the topic that I went on to try to do Physics cloth simulation using Carrara a couple of weeks ago but have been simply too busy since then to fire up the program and continue with my efforts. But I started a thread on the subject (in the Carrara forum) which interested some people (much appreciated) It has sunk now to page 4 of that forum and is titled 'Trying out Physics in Carrara'.
My posts in that discussion are perhaps long-winded and may even be erroneous in places because I am only learning. But I did assemble my experiments into a few short videos which are linked to in the thread and which some may find interesting. They show partial success of draping and collision but I can't yet say how much more could be achieved (I get a huge clue from the fact that real experts seem to have been there and found the limitations long before me!)
Most of the iclone cloth meshes which I bought are simply discs with 'spider's web' topology. They have vertex groups in the centre which are pinned to the figure while the rest of the object is pulled by gravity. Collision is not with the figure but with hidden hard-body shapes attached to the limbs.
Some other (dress) meshes shown later in my video are more like cones with the point flattened and with no base. These are more liable to suffer from poke-through from the figures legs.
The moving hair in the iclone video consists of long ribbons pinned to a 'cap'.
Clearly the iclone way of doing things is different to taking a recognisable ready-made garment such as a dress and have it drape onto a figure. One of my videos shows a strange mesh which becomes like a dress under gravity although it doesn't look like much like one at the outset. And it shows that the cloth in Carrara can drape if given the correct settings.
Here are my videos and apologies if I have diverted the discussion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7radMxgLA8Q&list=UU8QKWA-6DAMb6bT5m2hXJDg&featu;
re=c4-overview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIB2fouHgn0&feature=c4-overview&list=UU8QKWA-6D
AMb6bT5m2hXJDg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkLebfIzJaU
The videos certainly give me something to gauge progress against. I also have iClone 5.5 so I've been using that as a testbed for comparison to my implementation in Daz.
Thanks for that - its cheered me up. All those videos consisted of my learning experiments and - lacking a music track - I just added comments. They may look like tutorials as a result but I am not that advanced.
Because it wasn't in or for Studio. I personally am very interested in a physics plugin for the program I already use in my production schedule (I did the survey but have no opinion on PhysX vs. Bullet; frankly either would be better than nothing at this point). Currently I farm out blanket and other "unfitted" draping to Blender via obj import and export. That is not a good solution for clothes. Hair would be nice but I consider it very secondary to having draped cloth.
I'll be watching this project with great interest.
I am sorry I link your you tube video. I linked it just hope to show what I want to achieve in DAZ studio .
it is great video I think.
As for me, I only hope to use iclone for exported gen and gen2 character from DAZ.
seldom hope to use realusion iclone figures.
then, I had checked the original vendor video to achieve somelike dynamic clothing
untill you put up your experiments in carrara forum. (but if I found it, I may not reply,
because it is not about carrara .)
I understand If I bought Physics clothing + figure set of the vendor, I may achieve it in iclone.
but there seems no garantee it work with genesis2female, and genesis,and there seems no documents
how to modify and adjust it for exported daz figure. and how to make dynamic clothings.
I hope, there is way without buying vendor clothing.
There is no way to change daz clothing obj,
those which have been bought , to be animatable as dynamic clothing in daz studio.
(now I do not talk about iclone , though I have intereting much, and I have some experience to phisics simlation,
daz figure and daz clothing, hair in blender)
My request about DS plug in is
1. the plug in can be adaptable clothings obj, which I have gotten already with daz figure.not only for simple flag or napkin etc,,
2 Or there is clear documents how to make dynamic clothing which can be animatable with the plug-in
I have been playing a lot with iClone and carrara physics these last few days
iClone is good if you respect limitations and use proxy objects only drawback being not able to pin cloth unless bought from a devdloper using 3ds Max (and an older version at that)
Carrara I can pin and use full highpoly mesh but very slow process excellent results if not using vertex animations ie rigging and morphs.
Poser only thing with softbody for Daz content I have found that can cope with that other than Optitex.
I would indeed use a studio plugin if it enabled one to pin and simulate your own mesh on rigged Daz figures!
Poser is ok but really does not do well with DSON imported triax weighted mesh.
Because it wasn't in or for Studio. I personally am very interested in a physics plugin for the program I already use in my production schedule (I did the survey but have no opinion on PhysX vs. Bullet; frankly either would be better than nothing at this point). Currently I farm out blanket and other "unfitted" draping to Blender via obj import and export. That is not a good solution for clothes. Hair would be nice but I consider it very secondary to having draped cloth.
I'll be watching this project with great interest.
I noticed your clothes too. I do similar in Poser back to Daz. I Guess the point is since I make most of my content in Daz now I'd like not to have to go back and forth using my Poser Cloth sims as obj sequences as a work around. I don't have Iclone but in Poser the bend morphs for the Genesis(s) are not exactly the same as in Daz Studio (lack of Triax weight mapping). Bend the arms up once on both programs and look at the arm pits and you will see what I mean. Now on the subject I would really like to see some kind of physics in Daz Studio.
edit: Well said Wendy, I didn't get down to your post till I posted this...lol
double edit: I will try to do a simple render of what I have done sofar using that method to give you an Idea and if you look at some of Wendys Videos she has some also.
Hi everyone,
Today I returned for a few hours to Carrara to take up from where I left off a while ago. There isn't time to create a video but here is a gif showing screenshots of some of the renders.
This is a Makehuman figure I exported as an OBJ, decimated in Hexagon and rigged in Carrara (I did this last year).
The clothing is the second garment I ever made - for the figure - in Hexagon. Again, I made this last year but tweaked it today especially for my tests.
There is nothing in the scene apart from the figure, the dress and the Makehuman hair mesh. (as well as camera and lights).
I'm really excited about this plugin. It would be nice to have more sophisticated animation capabilities in DS. I'm not sure what's possible but I would love it to see poke through and jitters minimized. Also what about things like feet colliding with the floor? I hope it will work if I use other plugins like AniMate2, KeyMate & graphMate.
Below is a link to a little animation I did while beta testing motion captures. I added the secondary motions to the hat and chest by hand and my timing was a bit off. It would be nice if this plug in could automate some things like that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKryT1qKU_M
To Tomjscott:
I hope I haven't muddled the thread by posting Carrara stuff - on this occasion my progress seemed to fit in with the topic. The clothing I used for the gif above was normal to about the waist and then spread out into a disc shape for draping. Some parts were pinned. I plan to work further along those lines. (Ultimately I think I'm doomed to failure because the draping stretches the topology of the mesh. What would that mean for textures? I need to learn about these, having only a basic knowledge.)
To kitakoredaz:
Please don't apologise - my video was put on YouTube to be seen and I'm glad that some have enjoyed it or found it useful. The physics cloth and hair for iclone figures is really inexpensive and comes with sample projects containing physics-enabled iclone figures. I used iclone physics to make Genesis, and Genesis2 female, physics-enabled in the same way. And the cloth worked. The process is simple but correct adjustments take a little more time. It isn't possible now to make such cloth for yourself unless you have old copies of 3ds Max, iclone and the old developer plugin. I could explain further here but I'm aware that this thread is about a DAZ Studio plugin survey and I don't want to move too far away from that.
To Wendy:
Great to hear that you are using Physics in both programs - I saw many of your videos and was impressed by clothing you animated (I have Poser 9 - seldom used unfortunately - and always meant to try what you have done - another learning curve!
To Swawa3D:
Great video, to me flawless in every way.
Thanks! It took a very long time to do that very short clip though. I hope this physics plug-in can help speed up some of the process. Your Carrara experiments are very interesting.