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My statement broke it down to the lowest level. ;-)
We are talking about 3D-Lighting, that means faking real light. It is up to the artists how good he is in faking real world situations. :-)
Still tweaking settings, adjust intensities, re-render again ... it doesn´t matter how good your HDRIs might be. Maybe easier but it will belong to the artist to make it look good. ;-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-dynamic-range_rendering
That's not the same as not being able to actually light a scene...a good HDRi is just as capable of actually casting light as any other 3D light.
Yes, it ultimately does come down to the artist, but it's been quite a while since an image wasn't just used as an image, but as a light source.
I guess we have lost the context now. So I quote what I was responding to.
Yes, the figures do not look like they are part of the HDRI Environment. And I can tell you why that is: The figure wasn´t there when the HDRI was captured.
It is still up to the artist to make it look that way!
Never said it isn´t posible to light a scene with an HDRI. Just said it is a capture of the sun at a specific time on a specific location. A capture of the sun will never be like the real sun. ;-)
Victoria will not get a sun burn when she is exposed to a Beach-HDRI. :-)
That's not really true. The contribution of the light bounced off the figures onto the environment image is missing, but in most cases that's not very significant if you have an appropriate shadow catcher to mimic it. IBL lighting is not inherently less realistic a light source than a set of "modeled" lights -- in fact, the old "light dome" techniques that use a bunch of lights to mimic GI are less realistic.
HDRI is for overall lighting, at least that is how I use it. It is a starting point bfore adding a light for the 'sun' that will give the shadows. There is a large open area in the middle of all the Yosemite backdrops that you use to build the 3D scene and the image is used as a backdrop only. Trying to use one as the only prop for a render seldom works.
In this one the only items are the two figures and a light for the 'sun'. I also sharpened it up a bit in Photoshop.
Click on image for full size.
My apologies for spaming this thread with misinformations. I will stay away from topics like this in the future. ;-)
And I promiss, I will never ever break something down on the lowest level to make a statement. Lesson learned!
I cannot get the lid back on this can and now the worms are everywhere! Arrgghhh!! Run! Run for your lives!!
Talk is cheap - does anyone actually have an image that shows a render done with only HDRI lights where a shadow cast in the image is also reflected on the model? ie the model is stood half in light and half in shade. Because that hasn't been possible with any of the HDR I have tried so far. Consider it a challenge
. No cheating with additional lights!
I tried and no it doesn't work as there is no physical object between the background image and the 3d element. The cast shadows are on the image and not in physical space so the 3d object is standing on the image. The plane will catch the shadow from the 3d object but the object can't catch the shadows which are imprinted on the image.
Yeah, this is what I'm talking about. I'm sure that there are some very, very well done high quality HDRIs out there that can replicate this with HDR lighting alone, but I think that they are rare and probably very expensive. Most just seem to use a fairly blanket light solution for the entire image and, as MN-150374 points out, its then down to the talent of the artist to try to match the shadows as closely as possible with added lights. But unless you are a crazy-good artist you're never going to match it accurately enough for it to look seamless. Or, if you're only doing a single portrait image then you can just stand the model in the appropriate place so that the lighting conforms - but this is very limiting with regards to positioning.
The other problem I have with HDRIs is that you can't place a model behind any of the elements of the HDR image like you can with geometry. So if you have long grass in the image, or a tree or something, then the model always has to be infront or on top of those elements (never behind) which, in the case of grass, looks wrong. Obviously you can add in props for these, but unless they match the existing flora or fauna exactly then thats going to look weird too. This is why I think geometric scenes are far superior to HDRI in all but basic portrait images.
Thats just one man's opinion - I'm not saying its right or wrong for everyone. Its just how I feel about them.
tl155180
I know what you mean and how you are looking at it but that isn't what HDRI are for. They are only for overall lighting and as an indistinct backdrop not as the main scene element. I have used them in scenes when using 3Delight and they look a little better but not much
These were test renders I did. The first three are 3Delight and the fourth one is Iray.
By this logic, a photograph of a real person can't be a faithful reproduction of that person, because the photograph isn't the real person.
HDRi's for rendering were specifically engineered to provide the lighting environment of the original scene, and doing so in a physically plausible way. Otherwise, there would be no point to them.
Characters look merely pasted on because of a variety of reasons, but the character in the shot will (with a good HDRi) definitely get the same highlights, reflections, and other lighting information than if they were actually there.
The major reason scenes with HDRi backgrounds look "fake" is that the background is a photograph, and the 3D elements are not fully realistic. This isn;'t a failing of the HDRi.
Another reason is the lack of proper shadows. This often IS a failing of the HDRi. The photo contains the shadows, but there isn't enough light information in the image for the renderer to work from.
I think some people are under the misaken impression that an HDRi is a full set. It's just a picture! If it's a full spherical projection (360 degrees by 180 degrees), this picture will wrap to the sky and the ground. But it should be obvious that everything in the image is still 2D. If there's an outhouse in the image, your character will not be able to go into it to relieve himself.
The primary use of HDRi's is for the lighting information. Use as a photographic backgrop is a bonus, but that's not a given. A great HDRi for lighting can make for a lousy backdrop, and vice versa (in fact, the majority of HDRis are quite poor at providing anything but bland ambient lighting -- that's the fault of the people who made them).
Folks should carefully consider the ramifications of rendering "store bought" HDRis as backdrops. Everyone else is doing it, too, and using the same couple dozen shots. The repetition can make for surprisingly dull art.
It's not so hard making an HDRI that provides nice lighting (heck, you can do it in any simple drawing program. Just make it very dramatically light and dark).
It's not so hard making an HDRI that provides a good backdrop image (mostly make it large enough).
Doing both in one image is f'in insanely difficult, unless you have some very high-end stuff.
Just need something like a 20,000 x 10,000 pixel image to start with...
Again, it depends on what you're doing. If your image is more of a scene and you need cast shadows, then you have more work to do. If you are doing a portrait that doesn't require them, then you will likely be successful.
There may be a way to use canvas passes to capture the shadow on the shadow catcher so you modify it to blend in better with your image.
Can you light with just HDRs? Yes. Will some setups need more work, more lights, shadow catchers, postwork? Yes.
You'd think, but the shadow pass is only available in Iray Interactive, and here the shadows are separately controllable using biased rendering techniques. So while oyu can cast shadows, they may not match witha scene otherwise captured in a Photoreal beauty pass. It's extra work to dial in the shadow characteristics to match the"real world look.
What? A sense of humor? Here? Unbelievable! :-)
The only reasons why I joined this discussion were the Dimension Theory .hdr-files. Here is what you asked for back than, .hdr-file in Environment Map and Dome only, no 3D-Sunlight added.
Skies of Economy - Sunny4
Yosemite Pack Two - Yosemite12