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True that. I was following the What's Coming in Poser thread over at Hivewire with my fingers crossed but there is nothing they are offering that gave me hope for native support for anything that DAZ3D is offering in DAZ Studio. So I unfollowed the thread. It's really too bad.
I just knew Cho was going to have a moment! YUP! lol
At least I only harrumphed, it could have been far worse
HAHAHAHAHA... true that honey!
You are a true geek now !!!
I do. Thanksssssssssss!
I have a feeling that Poser 11 will likely be that programs swan song.. With pretty much all 3rd party content moving towards Daz Studio and Genesis 3 this will in the end kill off Poser and thus any competition which is a shame but if 3rd party content creators are no longer going to support two programs well there is not much one can do..
And well we all know what happens when there is no competition, just a little food for thought..
....I believe that cloud rendering is actually in the works as there is a link (not yet functional) in the programme for it.
The next step after that will most likely be 3D printing.
These are the types of services that Daz can make money with to offset the cost of the core programme's development.
Keep in mind they still also sell Carrara/Carrara Pro, Bryce and Hexagon (as I understand, an update for Hex is in the works), as well as being a reseller for other software like Filter Forge, Shade, iClone, etc.
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BTW there is another fairly popular 3D programme out there that no one is mentioning called Vue, which is not only modular (like Daz Studio), but also has a professional grade version (Vue Infinite) as well and has an affiliated content house (Cornucopia). As a matter of fact, there is some Vue content sold here in the Daz Store as well.
...as I have mentioned in the past, were it not for Daz's scheme of offering the core programme for free along with a free set of assorted content (the old 3D Bridge Pack), I would never have become involved in this. 250$ up front for Poser 5 was too steep a price to pay when I wasn't sure I'd take to it, and a time limited trial of a slightly "emasculated'" version of the software did not give enough opportunity to really "test the waters" so to say.
Hence it was simple economics as to why I ended up with Daz instead. True, to make the core programme as functional as Poser with the various plug ins and add ons at the time cost more in the long run, however that cost was spread over time and therefore easier to accommodate on a tight budget. Furthermore to really get the most out of Poser also required additional plug ins as well (particularly for lighting and materials) on top of both the initial price and purchasing content.
I eventually purchased Poser 6 from a reseller (primarily for Cloth Dynamics, Rigging, and Materials) and found the UI and lighting system to be more cumbersome to work with in comparison with Daz Studio's (at the time ver. 2.0). With the release of Daz 3.x, and 4.x, I found was relying on Poser less and less, to the point of pretty much only using it for cloth dynamics. I will say there are still a few features of Pro 2010/2012 that I do like such as the render queue, and again the "open" cloth dynamics engine.
Related to the current topic, I remember seeing content at both Rendo and RDNA which had statements like, "Not Tested In Daz Studio", "Not Compatible with Daz Studio" and even "Daz Studio Is Not Supported" in the product description as far back as the Ver. 1.8 days. So what we are seeing with G3 and new Daz content today is actually nothing new, just that the shoe has moved to the other foot now.
I agree that Daz may be faced with at least one business decission if Poser fails completely; it may be that they start charging for Daz (or a version of it again). The trouble we have is far too little information, and no data to create any information from. If they start charging again, I'll stick with what I have now; I didn't start using Daz, even though I've looked at it for years until after it became free.
So while Daz may make a decission I don't like, I can make my own decission.
There current business model seems to be working, and speculation is largely useless on the data we have.
Always sad when we see something we've enjoyed cease to be viable from our own perspective.
I've posted before, and I'll reiterate: I hope Poser continues and the next version is the start of addressing the issues.
I like competition, it's good for customers.
I agree that the Poser market seems to be failing/drying up, but it hasn't yet gone; ineffective competition, is different than no competition. It is never a good idea to ignore competition, no matter how irrelevent it seems now.
Glad to hear it.
Just my two cents: Genesis 3 and Morph3D are all geared towards gaming industry.
It's also moving DAZ and DAZ Studio into a different direction.
However, I don't see that DAZ will start charging again for DAZ Studio, even with Poser gone. There are always other free applications that will spring out of the corners. You are never safe from that. So DAZ needs to be on its toes and keep growing their customer base with all kinds of new "candies".
But one thing - if the other markets will focus more on DS content, it might create a price war for content. You already can see some of it with the insane discounts we got throughout the year, and the higher intro prices. It's worth noting that this didn't start until after othe r content places became more of a competition.
If Poser does fall, then it could be that the new main competitor to DAZ Studio amoungst non-professional users (though not the main competitor of DAZ itself) would be blender. Although percieved as not particularly user friendly, from the comments I have seen, that is improving. Given that blender is, and I am sure, always will be free, then it would be another reason for DS to stay free as well. A number of people are thinking that Poser is DS's only rival, but that is no longer true (if it ever was true).
All this wild speculation is just wild specualtion - Poser isn't dead, Daz isn't charging for DS, the sky is still overhead and not underfoot. This has become hugely off the original topic - please get back onto terra firma.
Well, from what I've heard, the new Poser PBR render engine "Superfly" will be based on Cycles (as in Blender/Cycles)... Although I look forward to that, I fear that may worsen the situation as that will just add one more thing for vendors to accommodate for.
EDITED TO ADD... Whoops... Sorry Richard... I didn't realize this was on to a fourth page.
EVERYTHING WILL BE OKAY... THERE IS NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT... EVERYONE GO BACK TO YOUR HOMES AND HUG YOUR LOVED ONES.
But seriously, there really is nothing to worry about, both platforms kinda need each other and I don't see either one separating too far from the other any time soon. It's just an adjustment period, that might be a little bumpy for a while... Like when you get bit by a zombie and it takes a little while to get used to the anti-zombification meds... Not exactly the same... Oh, never mind... It'll work out.
From what little that has been said, the version of Cycles being coded for Poser will make use of the Poser material room.
That is what I have read too. A number of Poser vendors still create materials readable by Poser 6, so I can see that just carrying on in the future. Naturally that would mean many shaders will not have been properly optimised for the superfly renderer, in the same way, for example, the iRay shaders in products today are. I guess it comes down to how good a job Poser does at automatically interpreting shaders meant for firefly to be used for Superfly. I actually think DS does a pretty good job of mapping 3DL shaders to iRay, but shader's created with iRay in mind, tend to be superior.
Morph3d is very much game oriented but I don't really see Genesis 3 that way. As a matter of fact Morph actually started out with figures based on Genesis 2 if I recall correctly. Genesis 3 is more an attempt to be on point with industry standards overall and increase the possibility of use in other programs and not just studio. It does increase the potential for use in some game environments but I don't think that was the primary goal for the new figure line.
I think it will be an up hill battle for other brokerages to move to Studio support. Note I said brokerages and not content creators. The other brokerages have not always been studio friendly and they still very much are poser oriented for various reasons. Some content creators are obviously clueing in on easier production and increased income from the Genesis line. They are limited in how competitive they can be at some brokerages as far as pricing and sale percentages go for the most part. I doubt that competition has anything to do with discounting schemes that have developed over the last few years. I'm pretty sure that is all due to having an dedicated and active marketing team.
Slight correction Khory. The current Genesis 2 figures Morph3D is using was just to get people used to the idea of Game assets and introduce them to what Morph3D is about because Genesis 3 wasn't quite ready at the time. The final platform where developers can create content for the Dawin platform will be based off Genesis 3 as far as I understand. The Genesis 3 platform is designed to cater for more industry standard applications which also includes the gaming sector. Oh I found this:)
I've been following this thread from beginning to end, and I must confess that I'm having a hard time figuring out what all the hoopla is about.
I've been using both Poser and DAZ Studio since about 2005 -- Poser, since version 6, and Studio since version 1. (Although I skipped version 2, since version 1 sucked so badly, I all but bailed on it completely.) I never really got a 'feel' for DS until version 3 was released, and after 4.x came out, I seriously began to take to it! I did continue to use Poser, right up to my current version, Poser Pro 2012. (For some reason, I have never felt any urge to upgrade to a more recent version.) Until recently, I have generally used both applications interchangeably, and frequently in the same workflow: Poser to design, clothe, and pose my characters; and DAZ Studio to build the actual scenes and renders.
But, as I have watched the divergence of content-compatibility between the two applications, I am finding that my workflow has evolved as well, into a 'one or the other' situation, especially since the original Genesis figure was introduced. (And I have to admit, that 'Victoria 5 Preview' April Fools' Day prank was simply classic!) Then, when Genesis 2 was released (and the DSON Importer for Poser), I brought Poser back into my workflow (and adapted my content libraries accordingly) -- until I finally accepted the fact that the DSON Importer doesn't work for crap! At least, not for me; getting clothed figures to pose without an infuriating level of poke-through was so frustrating, I finally gave up, and went back to the 'one or-the-other' approach.
As a consequence, I haven't used Poser in nearly a year, and even then, it was for the express purpose of using a feature in Poser that DAZ Studio didn't have (simpler (read: 'non-proprietary') dynamic cloth or hair, mainly (nothing works better for producing a crumpled pile of clothing on the floor!), or the multitude of posing cameras). And when I did, it was always with Generation 4 and earlier figures (yes, I still use Michael 3 and Victoria 3 on occasion); for Genesis and everything more recent, it is now DAZ Studio, and DAZ Studio only. The decision of which application to use, therefore, is determined entirely by the figures I intend to use. And there is precious litle 'inter-breeding' between generations. I don't even try to use the DSON Importer anymore; I no longer even bother with keeping the thing up-to-date.
So, when I run across a product that offers a separate Poser version, or a 'Poser Companion file', I download and install them in the appropriate Poser runtime, which are also visible to DS. (I even have a 'DSON Content' runtime, which is dedicated entirely to Genesis 2.) And if there isn't a separate Poser installer, or if it's a product for a newer figure (Genesis 3 Female, specifically), it goes into my DAZ Studio Content folder. I'm equally comfortable using both applications, so the support, or the absence thereof, for one product or the other, is really no skin off my <insert crude reference to body-part of choice here>.
There are already too many things going on in the world around me to get worked up over (or that I probably should, at any rate); this issue is not one of them.
The problem Ken, is that some users are not willing to use Studio (or cannot for whatever reason) and want support in their app of choice. Some of us do use both, however some only want to use with what they feel comfortable in, and want support for that chosen platform. The issue is that support was provided in the past, but that situation is slowly changing. That is what this discussion is about. Do some people care? Not really. But the decision does affect certain users. All we are trying to do is explain why it is happening from a content providers perspective.
...being a full featured programme that includes modelling, sculpting, UV mapping, dynamics, and other advanced features like particle/soft body physics, Blender has much more in common with the likes of 3DS Max and Modo than with Daz Studio.
Exactly! Poser was/is the only competitor to DS since they both do basically the same thing, allow for the posing of figures and then rendering or animation, which is about 5-10% of what any mainstream modeling app can do such as Blender, Max, or Maya.. If anything carrara has more in common with Blender than DS does
Alas, I can't work without being able to use dynamic clothing, without the collision-aware morph brush, without lighting that has different attentuation settings,and without the ability to rapidly and easily cut and slice up props (and generate actual geometry from them) -- all inside a single application. DS can do many things, but even if I could get a good looking render from it, it would still severely hamper my workflow if I had to keep switching from one app to another to do what I currently do in just one.
Hoping either Poser OR DS adds the needed features to make one of them the do-it-all for me. I honestly don't care which one does it. I'm game for either. :D Otherwise, I'll stick with whichever one requires the least app to app switching. Right now, that's Poser. In future, it may be DS. No point trying to guess at this time, though.
1) AoA lights do.
2) That's built into DS and has been for a good while, polygon editor tools.
One cannot talk of "workflow" when pretending to do everything in one single application. Workflow implies the cooperation of several application, each specialized for its purposes. Dynamics are the thing that Studio misses, everything else is business of other tools like Blender, 3DCoat, Natron etc.
I totally disagree with this. Workflow can be a single operation in a single app as long as it is repeatable and consitant.
I'm going to blame the English major in me for this, but....
The term 'workflow' can often be used -- and frequently is -- in the sense of an ordered sequence of tasks or procedures that must be performed in order to accomplish a defined objective. For instance....
In my 'day job' as an application and website developer, I often need to perform a multitude of disparate tasks -- from designing the database, creating the tables, defining primary and foreign-key relationships, coding stored procedures, to page or window layout, writing the server-side code-behind and client-side scripting, to laying out the stylesheet rules. I can perform all of these various and sundry tasks from within a single integrated development environment, Microsoft's Visual Studio. I could, and often do, bring Microsoft's SQL Server Management Studio into the mix (assuming I'm building on a SQL Server database; it it's Oracle, I use SQL Navigator), but that product is also "powered by Visual Studio"; it even says so on the splash screen. In any event, the actual number of different applications I use to do my job is irrelevant; it's still a 'workflow'.
And yes, I know, Richard, we're off-topic again!