Daz Studio Pro BETA - version 4.9.0.21!

DaWaterRat

BeeMKay said:

DaWaterRat said:

MKeyes said:

DaWaterRat said:

Okay, I'm not through reading this yet but...

I have my files set up in several separate runtimes (One for Genesis, one for Mil 4, one for Mil 3, one for toons, one for props, etc.)

So can I tell the DAZ connect that *this* Jack tomalin product goes in props, *that* updated V4 character goes in Mil 4, and *this other* new suit for G3M goes in Genesis?  Or will it put them all in a single directory, and how much control will I actually have over where that directory is and what it's called?  I mean, DIM still insists on installing updates to Daz Studio in G:/DAZ/DAZStudio4 when I want it in G:/DazStudio4 (and yes, I've told it to go with the base G drive, multiple times) so forgive me for being skeptical here.

When I opened it... ALL of my files from my other locations, it found them, and everything is there. The best way to know it, is to JUST DO IT! I read for days, and then finally bit the bullet. Now, I'm enjoying it because it's showing me a lot of my content that used to be hidden from me. It really is nice that they've done it this way. It will drive inspirations because you can now see your stuff! Well, I can...  Oh, and I didn't go looking for my stuff, if picked it up right from 4.8 and all my externals as well. And it did it fast, and have TONS of content from way back in 2005... Holy Mackerel, I've been at this for 10 years, WOW! WITH Daz all the way... 

I don't do Betas :) 

And I'm not worried about it finding my existing structure, I'm trying to figure out how/if it's going to handle my current structure with future updates and installs, or it's going to force me to have a new directory for "post 4.9 stuff."  I can adapt to that, but I won't be happy about it.

So all this stuff you're finding and intalling... where is it being installed on your computer?  To your existing directories as you feel the products go, or did it make a new one?  Are you able to categorise as you install, or do you have to go back in and do that (or do you even categorize)

 

There's a new directory for that DAZ Connect downloaded content. Here's an example from my Laptop, here it added a "data/cloud" directory. In this directory, all downloaded files ar stored using the SKU as top, and below that you have the entire structure that would normally go into your content directory, like data, runtime, etc. And of course, all that encrypted files stuff, too.

EDIT: You can't move around your files any longer, or it will break things. You CAN move the entire top folder structure with everything below it, and then tell Studio where you moved it. That works fine. But moving things here and there to get rid of the directory mess - that will not work.

Okay, I'm still a little confused.

Let me try to explain what I'm trying to understand.

Right now I have (as a sample)

G:\D4Library (Genesis stuff)

G:\StudioRuntimes\PropsAndSets

G:\StudioRuntimes\Millenium 4

G:\Shaders

set up as separate runtimes.  I don't use the My Library folder (which is under D4Library) at all, except to set up freebies.

So when it downloads, it will install to G:\D4Library\My Library\cloud etc.?  Can I tell it to not use My Library?  Can I have it put Shaders in a separate Directory?

From what you've said, the answer is currently no.  All content I download from Daz Connect will get thrown into G:\D4Library\My Library and I'll have to use categories (Which will need serious re-aranging because I really do not like Daz' Default organizational system) and Smart content to see it, since I won't be able to see it using the Content Library.

Do I have that right?

DaWaterRat

One last thought about the using Categories and Smart Content instead of the Content Libraries...(which I know they're looking into)

The problem, for me, is that I really, really don't like the way Daz sets up categories as a default.  I find it a total and complete mess, complicated by apparently several different itterations of where, exactly, somethng goes.  I'm sure it made sense to whoever set it up initially, but it doesn't always make sense to me.

But I've honestly got just way too much stuff to categorize everything the way I want to.  (That and I keep changing how exactly I want it categorized).  By using different Runtimes and installing by broad category - hey, everything's categorized at least on one level in a way that works for me.  I don't have to stop and re-categorize every time I get a new product - it's automatically somewhere I can find it, because I don't have to try and guess how whoever at DAZ decided to categorize it.  (Oh, hey, wasn't that part of the problem?)

Now, If I could work on it *outside of daz* (let's say a spreadsheet I could import) or if it didn't take fifteen steps to properly categorize one thing (drag and drop, for example), then maybe using Categories would seem like a good deal.  Right now, that's at least a week's worth of work (yes, 40+ hours of actualy messing with it) that I neither want nor currently have to do.

Make cateogrizing easier to work with, and we'll talk about my using it.  Until then, stop trying to sell me on your way being the best way.

Faeryl Womyn

I have a friend who is a programmer and hacks (for personal use just to see how things work and alter them, she has fun doing that to viruses) and see what she says about this.

RobotHeadArt

Anyone else having issues applying material poses to OutOfTouch's V4 hair props in 4.9?  The materials don't apply for me but were working in 4.8.

Tobor

DaWaterRat said:

Except DIM does use several runtimes.  The downloads all go to one place, but I can tell it to install a given product (or selected batch of products) to any of the runtime directories I already have set up.

Though it does appear that Daz Connect will not have that flexibility (or it does, but it's currently kinda tricky to get it to work)

This is true I was really lumping my own organizational use case to both, which is this: I download zips to a secondary drive and organize those. This organization follows my particular work flow , which is ordering by project type rather than what the product is -- the fact that it's a t-shirt is not important to me. What is important is that it's intended for a particular mockup project I'm doing. After an initial test in a Testing folder, I then install the contents to a specific runtime that follows the general layout of my local copies. The project runtime often has numerous non-Daz assets in it as well. 

I haven't found DIM Very handy here, and Connect appears to make it either impossible, or at best, obtuse. Drag-an-drop folder merging from one folder to another is so quick and easy, that's what I use instead. 

AnotherUserName

BeeMKay said:

AnotherUserName said:

BeeMKay said:

Figures - People - Female.

Smart Content in 4.8, "Default"

Actually, you can test it out with 4.8. Open the Smart content Pane, it works, as far as sorting is concerned, the same.

(and what I just found out, which I wasn't aware before... the Categories I created for myself in 4.8 are actually usable as Smart Content categories, so I can use my own sorting in Smart Content. Interesting. Is this the same in 4.9?

Smart Content using my own Categories which I use for sorting from the Content Library)

EDIT: I've decided, after long deliberations, that I will install 4.9 on my main machine. That means that I still have some backing up to do, and of course I have added a new "first" directory to my DAZ Studio Formats folders, which is outside of my regular library folder. If I remember correctly, ther was something about 4.9 Categorized content not showing up properly in 4.8 Categorization , or something, so I will have to give this a closer look.

Its combining ALL of your characters for ALL of your figures together? I have alot of characters. That would be tedious to search through. Can you filter that list?

Yes, there's a textbox at the top of smart content that allows search, both in 4.8 and in 4.9. The 4.9 search is supposedly superior to the 4.8 one.

Actually, what I was wondering was, is there a filter that lets you choose for characters according to the figure you want to work with. So "smart" content lumps all of your characters together under that category. Can I then set that filter to V4 and only see the V4 characters?

atticanne

BeeMKay said:

atticanne said:

L'Adair said:

Richard Haseltine said:

L'Adair said:

I do nearly everything on my desktop computer, but I do have a laptop. If I install 4.9 to my laptop and try out DAZ Connect, will content on my desktop be affected and start requiring DAZ Connect if and when I upgrade to 4.9? Or will the fact the two computers won't be using the same database be sufficient to prevent that?

First, nothing will happen to your existing installs - only the content installed with Connect is encrypted. As for using both the laptop and the desktop, it is my understanding from official posts that while the rules say one active machine only in fact, in the majority of cases, you would be able to have both machines actively registered to use Connect-installed content - but there are a number of fctors involved which make it impossible to be definitive (I hope it will be possible to be clearer in future).

I understand this. I'm not worried about the encryption. My concern was about your end. Was there anything on the servers that would require I continue to use DAZ Connect. My instinct says, "No," but I wanted to verify this first. I'm not planning on using 4.9 for anything other than looking at how it works, for now. If I like what I see, I'll be installing it on my Desktop once changes via 4.8 are visible in 4.9 and vice-versa.

nightwolf1982 said:

L'Adair said:

I do nearly everything on my desktop computer, but I do have a laptop. If I install 4.9 to my laptop and try out DAZ Connect, will content on my desktop be affected and start requiring DAZ Connect if and when I upgrade to 4.9? Or will the fact the two computers won't be using the same database be sufficient to prevent that?

The answer is:  if the two computers are NOT using the same database, then no your content on your desktop won't be affected by 4.9 being on your laptop.  At least, that's how I understand things.

Thanks. As I mentioned above, I'm just verifying there isn't anything on the DAZ servers/cloud that will muck up my install on the desktop.

I suggest you be very careful.  I tried 4.9 and installed my Genesis and Genesis 2 Starter Essentials.  Even though I uninstalled the new ones, through DIM I cannot get my regular unencrypted files to download or install.

Have you checked if the essentials are still in the "installed" section of DIM? As DAZ Connect and DIM probably won't talk to each other, and DAZ Connect doesn't download ZIPS, DIM will probably still have its "I downloaded this already" files in the download directory.

 

BeeMKay said:

atticanne said:

L'Adair said:

atticanne said:

L'Adair said:

Richard Haseltine said:

L'Adair said:

I do nearly everything on my desktop computer, but I do have a laptop. If I install 4.9 to my laptop and try out DAZ Connect, will content on my desktop be affected and start requiring DAZ Connect if and when I upgrade to 4.9? Or will the fact the two computers won't be using the same database be sufficient to prevent that?

First, nothing will happen to your existing installs - only the content installed with Connect is encrypted. As for using both the laptop and the desktop, it is my understanding from official posts that while the rules say one active machine only in fact, in the majority of cases, you would be able to have both machines actively registered to use Connect-installed content - but there are a number of fctors involved which make it impossible to be definitive (I hope it will be possible to be clearer in future).

I understand this. I'm not worried about the encryption. My concern was about your end. Was there anything on the servers that would require I continue to use DAZ Connect. My instinct says, "No," but I wanted to verify this first. I'm not planning on using 4.9 for anything other than looking at how it works, for now. If I like what I see, I'll be installing it on my Desktop once changes via 4.8 are visible in 4.9 and vice-versa.

nightwolf1982 said:

L'Adair said:

I do nearly everything on my desktop computer, but I do have a laptop. If I install 4.9 to my laptop and try out DAZ Connect, will content on my desktop be affected and start requiring DAZ Connect if and when I upgrade to 4.9? Or will the fact the two computers won't be using the same database be sufficient to prevent that?

The answer is:  if the two computers are NOT using the same database, then no your content on your desktop won't be affected by 4.9 being on your laptop.  At least, that's how I understand things.

Thanks. As I mentioned above, I'm just verifying there isn't anything on the DAZ servers/cloud that will muck up my install on the desktop.

I suggest you be very careful.  I tried 4.9 and installed my Genesis and Genesis 2 Starter Essentials.  Even though I uninstalled the new ones, through DIM I cannot get my regular unencrypted files to download or install.

Was this on a different computer as your 4.8 install, or the same computer?

One of the first things this thread told us was once something gets converted over to DAZ Connect, we'd have to continue using connect for that product. That's why I'm not willing to install the Beta on my desktop computer. I don't want to be stuck if I happen to not like DAZ Connect.

Same computer.  If this is true, then I'll just scratch DAZ and use Poser and Carrara.  

Have you checked if the essentials are still in the "installed" section of DIM? As DAZ Connect and DIM probably won't talk to each other, and DAZ Connect doesn't download ZIPS, DIM will probably still have its "I downloaded this already" files in the download directory.

DIM and My Products both have the Connect version.

Faeryl Womyn

Ok now while I wait for her to answer, which could be a while.  I have some concerns regarding the smart content and rearranging things.  Also a question about something I have not seen here yet and I honestly can't read anymore pages, got as far as 22 and had to quit...lol  I'm tired so might repeat myself.

1.  Smart Content and not rearranging files.  When it comes to Daz files, the one's that are specific to the Genesis series models and must go in the My Library in Documents, I tend to let them install as per the way it was set up.  The only thing I have changed is Ghastly's files since it adds a new folder to the list when it's for Genesis so that is where I put it, otherwise everything goes to where the artist intended.

Main problems, if we can't rearrange files, that means I will get errors cause of what I did with Ghastly's folder.  Secondly, things that should go in Materials with the clothing and props and such are instead put in Presets and I have to go looking for said textures or morphs..it's very annoying when I have to do that.

Question...will the Vendors now have properly set up folder structures for their products so I don't have to go hunting for things.

2.  If the Vendors don't follow the same pattern as all other products for folder structure, the other choice is to alter the files so they are set up properly.  Apparently not anymore, thereby frustrating me and others since you are removing that ability.  Do you have any idea how many products, free and paid for are not properly set up?  How many times I get errors about something not being found due to incorrect path information.  I understand new vendors not having correct file paths, but I am getting this from vendors who have been around a number of years and they have not corrected their bad habits, this shows a complete lack of respect for the customer and you compound it by preventing anyone from fixing it.

I know you said you will have tickets answered faster now, but honestly, you think we believe that?  I have seen numerous times in the threads here, for years now, about what is termed the Daz timeframe, suggesting it will be available or fixed or looked into in a few days to a week and everyone knows it could be months if at all.  Preventing anyone from fixing things themselves will slow down everyone who can do their own fixes.

3.  Metadata and data folder, kinda goes with the other 2 things.  About half of the stuff I have gotten since metadata appeared and this new My Library set up has no metadata and in many cases no data folder.  Now I don't know how important the data folder is, but it seems to me that if it's there, vendors products should have it in their set up.  I am not talking about older products either.  I have seen this even in recently free and paid for items and from well known vendors.

Now you want to fix it so that people do not move folders and do not change files.  In order to do that, everyone and I mean every last person who makes content for Daz, has to follow the same folder structure and properly save and zip their products with proper and corrent paths.  Side note, naming of things is horrendous.  I have a tree, try to find textures but it's not listed under trees, sometimes it's the Vendors name or some weird shortened concoction of the product name or Vendor name, making it more difficult to find.  This is a problem due to the files not being in the Material folder with the product, sometimes it's in presets or some other named folder I have to hunt for.

Ok now all of that is why preventing our own folder set up is an issue and how it interfers with work flow.  If the Vendors and that means Daz as well, can not use a proper folder structure and properly named items and correct file paths, you chould not prevent us from fixing things instead of waiting for the Daz idea of a time frame.

 

What has not been answered that I have seen so far.  The question of external runtimes.  I have 2 drives, I also have a tendency to add and remove items on a constant basis depending on my needs.  I install everything that has to be in Daz and the documents My Library set up as I stated above, including textures and other files that need to be there to work properly.

All Poser and other program related stuff that only goes in a runtime and does not require My Library, I use external runtimes.  Currently I have 8 runtimes based on how I like things done.  Models for all the Daz and other models I have acquire over time and the many textures made for them.  Clothes so I have no problem finding them or their textures and have to weed through hair props and other stuff to get them set up in the scene, etc etc.  I will be deleting the Halloween runtime tomrrow and setting up the Christmas one.

Question, will we still be able to access the external runtimes like we do now?  Directing Daz where to find them, even if they are on a different drive then the program?

Has anyone who downloaded the beta tested this yet?

 

atticanne

graham james said:

I have a concern with DRM. 
Currently a family member logs  onto my PC and uses my copy of Daz Studio along with my content. 
I realise that this is not allowed under the EULA but you don't currently prevent it so it happens.
Once the content becomes encrypted she would need her own account and be allowed to use only the content that she has purchased, is this correct?
She has no problem with the idea of setting up her own account and paying for her own content but she is not very savvy with e-commerce so perhaps a Daz staffer could walk her through this and work out a way that a 7 year old can pay for her content.
She is also concerned that if Daz Studio becomes abandon ware she will be left with unusable encrypted content.
I know that it has been stated that in that situation Daz would issue a means of unlocking said content but we have taught her not to trust what strangers on the internet say to her.

IIRC in the past DAZ has been okay with minors using their parents' accounts and content.  My 4-yr old grandson uses mine and will continue to do so.  Of course, his favorite character is not a DAZ product.

wowie

DAZ_Spooky said:

Data from customer service tickets, forum posts, polls, surveys and the Daz studio Improvement Program. What other sources should be used? 

Still waiting for these two to be adressed:

Oren Nayar as a specular BSDF. #191313 Shader Mixer - Oren Nayar BSDF

Raycache parameter. #192012 Bug Report - DAZ Studio doesn't pass GI ray cache attributes to 3Delight

SpottedKitty

Rogerbee said:

I'm gettng the distinct impression that 4.9 will have to, hopefully, go through a lot more beta iterations before public release, so I shall look at the threads with interest. I just hope and pray that if Daz Connect is something we HAVE to use that it is 101% working properly before that happens.

For what it's worth, during one of the big "lots of changes" updates a few years ago (can't remember if it was 4.0 or 4.5) I was part of a discussion trying to reassure people that the at-the-time beta would have all its most annoying glitches hammered out before final release. I remember saying at one point "considering how many major features still need urgent work, if it's still not released by next month, I'll not be too surprised: if it's released by next week, I'll be worried."

I logged in the day after to find the final release had been rolled out.  

Rogerbee

SpottedKitty said:

Rogerbee said:

I'm gettng the distinct impression that 4.9 will have to, hopefully, go through a lot more beta iterations before public release, so I shall look at the threads with interest. I just hope and pray that if Daz Connect is something we HAVE to use that it is 101% working properly before that happens.

For what it's worth, during one of the big "lots of changes" updates a few years ago (can't remember if it was 4.0 or 4.5) I was part of a discussion trying to reassure people that the at-the-time beta would have all its most annoying glitches hammered out before final release. I remember saying at one point "considering how many major features still need urgent work, if it's still not released by next month, I'll not be too surprised: if it's released by next week, I'll be worried."

I logged in the day after to find the final release had been rolled out.  

This is why I don't think it should be up to we end users to be beta testing anything. They should have a beta program with dedicated people, pro users and PA's that know what they are doing, going over things with a fine tooth comb. Only when they are satisfied should the product then be rolled out to end users. Instead, we have to do it and are flying blind most of the time. You don't make someone that has only just got their pilot's license suddenly fly an F-18, but, that is always what it feels like when Daz roll out a Beta.

CHEERS!

fixmypcmike

Rogerbee said:

SpottedKitty said:

Rogerbee said:

I'm gettng the distinct impression that 4.9 will have to, hopefully, go through a lot more beta iterations before public release, so I shall look at the threads with interest. I just hope and pray that if Daz Connect is something we HAVE to use that it is 101% working properly before that happens.

For what it's worth, during one of the big "lots of changes" updates a few years ago (can't remember if it was 4.0 or 4.5) I was part of a discussion trying to reassure people that the at-the-time beta would have all its most annoying glitches hammered out before final release. I remember saying at one point "considering how many major features still need urgent work, if it's still not released by next month, I'll not be too surprised: if it's released by next week, I'll be worried."

I logged in the day after to find the final release had been rolled out.  

This is why I don't think it should be up to we end users to be beta testing anything. They should have a beta program with dedicated people, pro users and PA's that know what they are doing, going over things with a fine tooth comb. Only when they are satisfied should the product then be rolled out to end users. Instead, we have to do it and are flying blind most of the time. You don't make someone that has only just got their pilot's license suddenly fly an F-18, but, that is always what it feels like when Daz roll out a Beta.

CHEERS!

Daz does have a private beta team that tests before the public beta is released.

BurstAngel

Okay, I'm getting pissed, I can't find where Connect is downloading the product. DAZ NEEDS to add a "where the hell is it" when I right click in the icon in the smart content tab. Also you need to address the issue of mutiple libraries for those of use who has too much content. This is useless to me if I can't keep my folders at least somewhat organized within my harddrive. I hate having folders all over the place and I hate having a giant bloated folder that stalls everytime a program tries to do  a search.

Okay, I found the metadata folder .....

Nevermind I found it. So everything is going to be in the data folder.

Pendraia

Richard Haseltine said:

Pendraia said:

DAZ_Spooky said:

SassyWench said:

You know.. this is the root of the whole problem. Daz has now decided they know what's best, easiest, more modern, etc etc. Smart content is easier, catagorizing in DS is better, savings new mat files is faster. No matter that some of us have been doing this for more than a decade. They still know what's best for us. Personally all I want is to sort, rename, and manage my files "like it's 1995" but the concerns are real in other areas and being told what's best is causing mounting frustration and annoyance to say the least.

We have been collecting data from the Customer Service tickets, forums, polls, surveys, watching users use the software, and the Daz Studio Improvement Program and using that data to address problems that our customers have demonstrated that they have. 

To be fair, and to give you input here, what other sources should we be using? 

 

Something to consider...most of this data is from users who have a problem with something. Frequently the only ones who answer polls or surveys are those who have a problem and want to change it. 

The thing you should ask yourself is how many of your users are included in that data?

Many of us are quite happy with the product we have and putter along without giving any input through those things you have mentioned.

I'm still reading and considering what my options are at the moment as I only found out about this today.

As vendors are fond of saying the vocal majority are not always the best way to plan how to develop your products. Many have complained in the past of how this has led to problems for them...just a thought.

The DAZ Studio Improvement program is opt in, but it isn't a survey - it's the thing they added several versions ago (might have been 4.5 or 4.6) that sends anonymised usage data. If you can't recall whether you opted in or not check Edit>Preferences and look under Feedback in the General tab.

I know that I didn't opt in Richard...that's my default position on that type of thing....I can definitively state that I can find product I buy and use. That whole argument reminds me of when I first started to use mods in games. Initially I got a lot of yellow triangles then I learnt how to install mods properly. Voila! No yellow triangles...as a teacher I would have to vote for education over idiot proofing every time.

Rogerbee

Fixmypcmike said:

Rogerbee said:

SpottedKitty said:

Rogerbee said:

I'm gettng the distinct impression that 4.9 will have to, hopefully, go through a lot more beta iterations before public release, so I shall look at the threads with interest. I just hope and pray that if Daz Connect is something we HAVE to use that it is 101% working properly before that happens.

For what it's worth, during one of the big "lots of changes" updates a few years ago (can't remember if it was 4.0 or 4.5) I was part of a discussion trying to reassure people that the at-the-time beta would have all its most annoying glitches hammered out before final release. I remember saying at one point "considering how many major features still need urgent work, if it's still not released by next month, I'll not be too surprised: if it's released by next week, I'll be worried."

I logged in the day after to find the final release had been rolled out.  

This is why I don't think it should be up to we end users to be beta testing anything. They should have a beta program with dedicated people, pro users and PA's that know what they are doing, going over things with a fine tooth comb. Only when they are satisfied should the product then be rolled out to end users. Instead, we have to do it and are flying blind most of the time. You don't make someone that has only just got their pilot's license suddenly fly an F-18, but, that is always what it feels like when Daz roll out a Beta.

CHEERS!

Daz does have a private beta team that tests before the public beta is released.

Ok, good, then why get everyone else to do it when they can!?

CHEERS!

fixmypcmike

atticanne said:

 

DIM and My Products both have the Connect version.

Can you explain exactly what steps you took and exactly what you are seeing?  DIM and Product Library both have the same unencrypted zips as before.

cherpenbeck

Change in itself isn't bad, but forced change sometimes is, and premature forced change always is. This 4.9 release looks like a forced premature change.

Give me a working smart content first, please, and I do really mean working, not this patched thing we have now, which, as I already stated in a earlier post (wasn't answered), does not put things where they should be by any logic.

Like, I neither find the artic fox nor the butterflies under animals. Just as an example. Maybe for DAZ a fox isn't an animal ...

Edith: Yes, I know, I can move the icons. But then, if I can and shall move the icons myself, why do you want to take my ability away to move the original files to a place I prefer? Because I might break something? We users aren't Kindergarten-kids who need to be kept away from every potential danger. And so far i didn't ask support to mend what I myself have broken. All I asked for help were informations which should have been in a manual which didn't exist at the moment, or, more precise, the informations might have been there, but a novice user like me was unable to find them anywhere.

Edith 2: And other users and vendors and, yes, Daz-people were really helpful. I got my answers. But with well organized information I would not have had to ask in the first place.

And now it seems we get 4.9 before we get the chance to get all needed information for 4.8.

BeeMKay

atticanne said:

BeeMKay said:

atticanne said:

L'Adair said:

Richard Haseltine said:

L'Adair said:

I do nearly everything on my desktop computer, but I do have a laptop. If I install 4.9 to my laptop and try out DAZ Connect, will content on my desktop be affected and start requiring DAZ Connect if and when I upgrade to 4.9? Or will the fact the two computers won't be using the same database be sufficient to prevent that?

First, nothing will happen to your existing installs - only the content installed with Connect is encrypted. As for using both the laptop and the desktop, it is my understanding from official posts that while the rules say one active machine only in fact, in the majority of cases, you would be able to have both machines actively registered to use Connect-installed content - but there are a number of fctors involved which make it impossible to be definitive (I hope it will be possible to be clearer in future).

I understand this. I'm not worried about the encryption. My concern was about your end. Was there anything on the servers that would require I continue to use DAZ Connect. My instinct says, "No," but I wanted to verify this first. I'm not planning on using 4.9 for anything other than looking at how it works, for now. If I like what I see, I'll be installing it on my Desktop once changes via 4.8 are visible in 4.9 and vice-versa.

nightwolf1982 said:

L'Adair said:

I do nearly everything on my desktop computer, but I do have a laptop. If I install 4.9 to my laptop and try out DAZ Connect, will content on my desktop be affected and start requiring DAZ Connect if and when I upgrade to 4.9? Or will the fact the two computers won't be using the same database be sufficient to prevent that?

The answer is:  if the two computers are NOT using the same database, then no your content on your desktop won't be affected by 4.9 being on your laptop.  At least, that's how I understand things.

Thanks. As I mentioned above, I'm just verifying there isn't anything on the DAZ servers/cloud that will muck up my install on the desktop.

I suggest you be very careful.  I tried 4.9 and installed my Genesis and Genesis 2 Starter Essentials.  Even though I uninstalled the new ones, through DIM I cannot get my regular unencrypted files to download or install.

Have you checked if the essentials are still in the "installed" section of DIM? As DAZ Connect and DIM probably won't talk to each other, and DAZ Connect doesn't download ZIPS, DIM will probably still have its "I downloaded this already" files in the download directory.

 

BeeMKay said:

atticanne said:

L'Adair said:

atticanne said:

L'Adair said:

Richard Haseltine said:

L'Adair said:

I do nearly everything on my desktop computer, but I do have a laptop. If I install 4.9 to my laptop and try out DAZ Connect, will content on my desktop be affected and start requiring DAZ Connect if and when I upgrade to 4.9? Or will the fact the two computers won't be using the same database be sufficient to prevent that?

First, nothing will happen to your existing installs - only the content installed with Connect is encrypted. As for using both the laptop and the desktop, it is my understanding from official posts that while the rules say one active machine only in fact, in the majority of cases, you would be able to have both machines actively registered to use Connect-installed content - but there are a number of fctors involved which make it impossible to be definitive (I hope it will be possible to be clearer in future).

I understand this. I'm not worried about the encryption. My concern was about your end. Was there anything on the servers that would require I continue to use DAZ Connect. My instinct says, "No," but I wanted to verify this first. I'm not planning on using 4.9 for anything other than looking at how it works, for now. If I like what I see, I'll be installing it on my Desktop once changes via 4.8 are visible in 4.9 and vice-versa.

nightwolf1982 said:

L'Adair said:

I do nearly everything on my desktop computer, but I do have a laptop. If I install 4.9 to my laptop and try out DAZ Connect, will content on my desktop be affected and start requiring DAZ Connect if and when I upgrade to 4.9? Or will the fact the two computers won't be using the same database be sufficient to prevent that?

The answer is:  if the two computers are NOT using the same database, then no your content on your desktop won't be affected by 4.9 being on your laptop.  At least, that's how I understand things.

Thanks. As I mentioned above, I'm just verifying there isn't anything on the DAZ servers/cloud that will muck up my install on the desktop.

I suggest you be very careful.  I tried 4.9 and installed my Genesis and Genesis 2 Starter Essentials.  Even though I uninstalled the new ones, through DIM I cannot get my regular unencrypted files to download or install.

Was this on a different computer as your 4.8 install, or the same computer?

One of the first things this thread told us was once something gets converted over to DAZ Connect, we'd have to continue using connect for that product. That's why I'm not willing to install the Beta on my desktop computer. I don't want to be stuck if I happen to not like DAZ Connect.

Same computer.  If this is true, then I'll just scratch DAZ and use Poser and Carrara.  

Have you checked if the essentials are still in the "installed" section of DIM? As DAZ Connect and DIM probably won't talk to each other, and DAZ Connect doesn't download ZIPS, DIM will probably still have its "I downloaded this already" files in the download directory.

DIM and My Products both have the Connect version.

 

After reading your answer, I tried again, with documentation. The result was that my DIM file is untouched, that the files installed in "my Library" are untouched, and that the encrypted stuff is neatly installed in its own directory.

So, I do not know what happened in your install (as something must be happening differently in your install to overwrite the files), but in my installation, it works properly, and my old installation is not touched. Uninstalling from DIM, redownloading, also gives me unencrypted files for Gabriel.

EDIT: Maybe it is best if you file a ticket, so they can fix what is causing the problem.

Before installing from the Cloud

Installing the files from Cloud

Cloud-Gabriel is installed in the directory reserved for Cloud-downloads. The original content is untouched. I refreshed that folder twice to make certain.

In DIM, the DIM file is still under "Installed" where it should be.

 

mjc1016

Pendraia said:

I know that I didn't opt in Richard...that's my default position on that type of thing....I can definitively state that I can find product I buy and use. That whole argument reminds me of when I first started to use mods in games. Initially I got a lot of yellow triangles then I learnt how to install mods properly. Voila! No yellow triangles...as a teacher I would have to vote for education over idiot proofing every time.

Ah...those infamous yellow triangles....

And isn't there something about the universe building bigger idiots to counteract all the idiot-proofing?

Yes...a quote a attributed to Rick Cook...

“Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.”

But on the point of the Improvement Program...I think it is going to be skewed data.  Most of us who have been using computers in terms of a decade++ probably shut it off.  And  for minor fixes we probably don't report them as much as we should...we just fix them and move on.  But to be fair, decisions can only be made with data available...so if the data is skewed in favor of new users or those with problems (whether those problems arise from something inherent in the program, a lack of understanding how things work or some other reason) in a way, it is our (us 'power users') own fault...because we haven't been supplying data to help shape those decisions and they can only make their decisions based on what they 'know'.

No we don't have to like it...but it's just the way it is.

 

 

BeeMKay

DaWaterRat said:

Okay, I'm still a little confused.

Let me try to explain what I'm trying to understand.

Right now I have (as a sample)

G:\D4Library (Genesis stuff)

G:\StudioRuntimes\PropsAndSets

G:\StudioRuntimes\Millenium 4

G:\Shaders

set up as separate runtimes.  I don't use the My Library folder (which is under D4Library) at all, except to set up freebies.

So when it downloads, it will install to G:\D4Library\My Library\cloud etc.?  Can I tell it to not use My Library?  Can I have it put Shaders in a separate Directory?

From what you've said, the answer is currently no.  All content I download from Daz Connect will get thrown into G:\D4Library\My Library and I'll have to use categories (Which will need serious re-aranging because I really do not like Daz' Default organizational system) and Smart content to see it, since I won't be able to see it using the Content Library.

Do I have that right?

 

Well, it currently installs into the top directory listed in your Content directory manager. The only way to have it install Shaders into a folder "shader" would be to move that folder to the top of the list, and then install. Then, when you want to install Vehicles to the Vehicle folder, you'd move that up to the top of the list, and install.

But the problem with that is that DAZ Connect would keep looking for the folder with the meta data, which is installed in the top directory. If it doesn't find the meta data listing, it will keep downloading it over and over for each folder... at least, that's what it did in my installation when I tried the "different directories". So, at this point it is really not recommended. Also, since I work mostly with categories, for me, the current way through Smart Content is rather clumsy. I spent a few minutes after download quickly categorizing my content from the Content Directory to the Categories; with Smart Content, the process is much more time consuming, and I really don't like it very much.

But as far as I undrstood the programmers, who posted earlier in the thread, they are working on several improvements for this situation. I'm rather curious to see what they come up with.

That said, for people who use Smart Content a lot, the new system is really simple to use, and fairly quick. And on the bright side of things, if you know the SKU of your product you are looking for, you can quickly find it in the new folder structure....

Pendraia

mjc1016 said:

Pendraia said:

I know that I didn't opt in Richard...that's my default position on that type of thing....I can definitively state that I can find product I buy and use. That whole argument reminds me of when I first started to use mods in games. Initially I got a lot of yellow triangles then I learnt how to install mods properly. Voila! No yellow triangles...as a teacher I would have to vote for education over idiot proofing every time.

Ah...those infamous yellow triangles....

And isn't there something about the universe building bigger idiots to counteract all the idiot-proofing?

Yes...a quote a attributed to Rick Cook...

“Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.”

 

Too true...but if they want to hand feed everyone for the rest of their days? Who am I to stop them....

 

mjc1016 said:

But on the point of the Improvement Program...I think it is going to be skewed data.  Most of us who have been using computers in terms of a decade++ probably shut it off.  And  for minor fixes we probably don't report them as much as we should...we just fix them and move on.  But to be fair, decisions can only be made with data available...so if the data is skewed in favor of new users or those with problems (whether those problems arise from something inherent in the program, a lack of understanding how things work or some other reason) in a way, it is our (us 'power users') own fault...because we haven't been supplying data to help shape those decisions and they can only make their decisions based on what they 'know'.

 

That was my point that the data is most likely skewed and I agree with what you're saying about not reporting to a point. Even those issues that have been reported as bugs do not seem to get the attention that this has.

 

Chohole

Rogerbee said:

Fixmypcmike said:

Rogerbee said:

SpottedKitty said:

Rogerbee said:

I'm gettng the distinct impression that 4.9 will have to, hopefully, go through a lot more beta iterations before public release, so I shall look at the threads with interest. I just hope and pray that if Daz Connect is something we HAVE to use that it is 101% working properly before that happens.

For what it's worth, during one of the big "lots of changes" updates a few years ago (can't remember if it was 4.0 or 4.5) I was part of a discussion trying to reassure people that the at-the-time beta would have all its most annoying glitches hammered out before final release. I remember saying at one point "considering how many major features still need urgent work, if it's still not released by next month, I'll not be too surprised: if it's released by next week, I'll be worried."

I logged in the day after to find the final release had been rolled out.  

This is why I don't think it should be up to we end users to be beta testing anything. They should have a beta program with dedicated people, pro users and PA's that know what they are doing, going over things with a fine tooth comb. Only when they are satisfied should the product then be rolled out to end users. Instead, we have to do it and are flying blind most of the time. You don't make someone that has only just got their pilot's license suddenly fly an F-18, but, that is always what it feels like when Daz roll out a Beta.

CHEERS!

Daz does have a private beta team that tests before the public beta is released.

Ok, good, then why get everyone else to do it when they can!?

CHEERS!

It gives a larger variety of input.   When this iteration of the forum was rolled out and there were some hiccups  the cry went up that the members should have been allowed to test the beta forum before it went live.  It is much the same here.

BeeMKay

Okay... question. I am testing 3Delight in 4.9, and normally, it hogs my CPU 99,9% during a render.

But now, even though all the cores are happily working away, they are just at 62%.

Is that supposed to happen, or is something wrong?

I'm using a simple scene with one G2 character, a biplane and the Dry Mud Desert with default light that come with the environment set.

mjc1016

BeeMKay said:

Okay... question. I am testing 3Delight in 4.9, and normally, it hogs my CPU 99,9% during a render.

But now, even though all the cores are happily working away, they are just at 62%.

Is that supposed to happen, or is something wrong?

Hmmm...that could explain some of the render results that wowie had...

Some kind of throttle?

BurstAngel

I'm surprise they didn't see this issue of multiple runtimes coming. I remember only playing with Studio for a few weeks before reworking my runtime into multiple runtimes. It only makes sense to keep each generation in a separate folder, and props/enviroment by genre. I keep my save files in a separate folder for easy backup. So far my setup is this

DAZ Built in Folder (for lights and shaders)

Figures/Mil4

Figures/Mil4/Hair

Figures/Mil4/Clothes

Figures/Genesis 01

Figures/Genesis 02

Figures/Genesis 03

Figures/Mil3

Figures/MISC

Figures/Creatures

Enviroment/Natural

Enviroment/Modern Vintage SciFi

Enviroment/Medieval & Fantasy

Enviroment/Industrial & Steampunk

As nice as Smart Content and DAZ Connect is, I rather have an organized harddrive.

 

Richard Haseltine

Faeryl Womyn/CalieVee said:

Ok now while I wait for her to answer, which could be a while.  I have some concerns regarding the smart content and rearranging things.  Also a question about something I have not seen here yet and I honestly can't read anymore pages, got as far as 22 and had to quit...lol  I'm tired so might repeat myself.

1.  Smart Content and not rearranging files.  When it comes to Daz files, the one's that are specific to the Genesis series models and must go in the My Library in Documents, I tend to let them install as per the way it was set up.  The only thing I have changed is Ghastly's files since it adds a new folder to the list when it's for Genesis so that is where I put it, otherwise everything goes to where the artist intended.

Main problems, if we can't rearrange files, that means I will get errors cause of what I did with Ghastly's folder.  Secondly, things that should go in Materials with the clothing and props and such are instead put in Presets and I have to go looking for said textures or morphs..it's very annoying when I have to do that.

Question...will the Vendors now have properly set up folder structures for their products so I don't have to go hunting for things.

2.  If the Vendors don't follow the same pattern as all other products for folder structure, the other choice is to alter the files so they are set up properly.  Apparently not anymore, thereby frustrating me and others since you are removing that ability.  Do you have any idea how many products, free and paid for are not properly set up?  How many times I get errors about something not being found due to incorrect path information.  I understand new vendors not having correct file paths, but I am getting this from vendors who have been around a number of years and they have not corrected their bad habits, this shows a complete lack of respect for the customer and you compound it by preventing anyone from fixing it.

I know you said you will have tickets answered faster now, but honestly, you think we believe that?  I have seen numerous times in the threads here, for years now, about what is termed the Daz timeframe, suggesting it will be available or fixed or looked into in a few days to a week and everyone knows it could be months if at all.  Preventing anyone from fixing things themselves will slow down everyone who can do their own fixes.

3.  Metadata and data folder, kinda goes with the other 2 things.  About half of the stuff I have gotten since metadata appeared and this new My Library set up has no metadata and in many cases no data folder.  Now I don't know how important the data folder is, but it seems to me that if it's there, vendors products should have it in their set up.  I am not talking about older products either.  I have seen this even in recently free and paid for items and from well known vendors.

Now you want to fix it so that people do not move folders and do not change files.  In order to do that, everyone and I mean every last person who makes content for Daz, has to follow the same folder structure and properly save and zip their products with proper and corrent paths.  Side note, naming of things is horrendous.  I have a tree, try to find textures but it's not listed under trees, sometimes it's the Vendors name or some weird shortened concoction of the product name or Vendor name, making it more difficult to find.  This is a problem due to the files not being in the Material folder with the product, sometimes it's in presets or some other named folder I have to hunt for.

Ok now all of that is why preventing our own folder set up is an issue and how it interfers with work flow.  If the Vendors and that means Daz as well, can not use a proper folder structure and properly named items and correct file paths, you chould not prevent us from fixing things instead of waiting for the Daz idea of a time frame.

 

What has not been answered that I have seen so far.  The question of external runtimes.  I have 2 drives, I also have a tendency to add and remove items on a constant basis depending on my needs.  I install everything that has to be in Daz and the documents My Library set up as I stated above, including textures and other files that need to be there to work properly.

All Poser and other program related stuff that only goes in a runtime and does not require My Library, I use external runtimes.  Currently I have 8 runtimes based on how I like things done.  Models for all the Daz and other models I have acquire over time and the many textures made for them.  Clothes so I have no problem finding them or their textures and have to weed through hair props and other stuff to get them set up in the scene, etc etc.  I will be deleting the Halloween runtime tomrrow and setting up the Christmas one.

Question, will we still be able to access the external runtimes like we do now?  Directing Daz where to find them, even if they are on a different drive then the program?

Has anyone who downloaded the beta tested this yet?

It's the CVonnect files, buried in the \Data folder, that cannot be moved. Content from other stores or freebies is not going to go there, and probably won't have metadata at all, so there's no need to restrict that. The content you can't move at all, buried in the daat folder, isn't showing in the ... Formats folders so you won't see or use the actual folder names as you do with the non-Connect content. All your existing content is going to work as it does now, as will future content you isntall with DIM (though that shouldn't be moved, to avoid breaking updates and the CMS).

IceCrMn

BurstAngel said:

I'm surprise they didn't see this issue of multiple runtimes coming. I remember only playing with Studio for a few weeks before reworking my runtime into multiple runtimes. It only makes sense to keep each generation in a separate folder, and props/enviroment by genre. I keep my save files in a separate folder for easy backup. So far my setup is this

DAZ Built in Folder (for lights and shaders)

Figures/Mil4

Figures/Mil4/Hair

Figures/Mil4/Clothes

Figures/Genesis 01

Figures/Genesis 02

Figures/Genesis 03

Figures/Mil3

Figures/MISC

Figures/Creatures

Enviroment/Natural

Enviroment/Modern Vintage SciFi

Enviroment/Medieval & Fantasy

Enviroment/Industrial & Steampunk

As nice as Smart Content and DAZ Connect is, I rather have an organized harddrive.

 

You only have 2 base folders here Figures and Environment.

Isn't this pretty much the same as what Studio sets up as default anyway?

Studio default has

People/Genesis 01 

People/ Genesis 02

, etc, etc

yours has all the people under figures instead of under people, but thats the only difference I'm seeing, unless I'm mising something.

fixmypcmike

Rogerbee said:

Fixmypcmike said:

Rogerbee said:

SpottedKitty said:

Rogerbee said:

I'm gettng the distinct impression that 4.9 will have to, hopefully, go through a lot more beta iterations before public release, so I shall look at the threads with interest. I just hope and pray that if Daz Connect is something we HAVE to use that it is 101% working properly before that happens.

For what it's worth, during one of the big "lots of changes" updates a few years ago (can't remember if it was 4.0 or 4.5) I was part of a discussion trying to reassure people that the at-the-time beta would have all its most annoying glitches hammered out before final release. I remember saying at one point "considering how many major features still need urgent work, if it's still not released by next month, I'll not be too surprised: if it's released by next week, I'll be worried."

I logged in the day after to find the final release had been rolled out.  

This is why I don't think it should be up to we end users to be beta testing anything. They should have a beta program with dedicated people, pro users and PA's that know what they are doing, going over things with a fine tooth comb. Only when they are satisfied should the product then be rolled out to end users. Instead, we have to do it and are flying blind most of the time. You don't make someone that has only just got their pilot's license suddenly fly an F-18, but, that is always what it feels like when Daz roll out a Beta.

CHEERS!

Daz does have a private beta team that tests before the public beta is released.

Ok, good, then why get everyone else to do it when they can!?

CHEERS!

There are issues that are discovered when 10,000 people try to use soimething that aren't when 20 people do.

mjc1016

Fixmypcmike said:

There are issues that are discovered when 10,000 people try to use soimething that aren't when 20 people do.

Besides the forum servers melting from the increased traffic complaining about the changes...

Private betas, for most software are definitely small groups...public betas are generally expected to garner lots of responses from a wide variety of users...many more than the private beta ever could, but still not everything that could pop up with the whole user base, that a main/final release would.  That's why there are often a second release a few days/weeks later from the original main release.  There are just some things that can't be found in small samples.