Make clothing more useful, please!
cherpenbeck
Posts: 1,411
I just saw the Mischief Outfit for G3 Females.
First impression: Whoa, great!
Second impression: Oh no! Another one with "sexy" holes!
Bare midriff side, only one arm covered, one thigh exposed. Plese, content creators, could you make your clothing stuff more versatile? Just adding an option to this new clothing which would cover up these bare regions would have made it the perfect clothing for my needs. With these gaping holes, it would look ridiculous on my character. Which sane woman would dress with what should be protecting clothes in the wilderness, if theses clothes would leave crucial parts of her body unprotected?
Okay, this "holes included" way it might appeal more to male buyers, but would it really be so difficult to give us an option with AND without these gaping openings?
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You could use a texture on her arm and thigh for a layered look with undersuit
arm may be free if lefthanded for ease of weapon use thigh unsure about
Yes I could. But still, the protective clothing would have holes, holes, in which insects could crawl, in which twigs would get cought. Why not make one continous mesh in the first place, and give option with transparency maps to the buyer if he/she wants holes?
I've gotten into the habit these days of looking for extras when it comes to clothing. If a clothing product doesn't have lots of adjustment and movement morphs then I consider it not worth the money (unless its heavily discounted, of course).
Personally, while I like sexy outfits, this outfit would be much better without the holes. It is not a sexy outfit and would have been useble and more versatile if both sides matched.
in saying that I am not a fan of transmaps and prefer 3D details such as seams which would limit useability for some. It's funny, I never even look at the FX, movement or adjustment morphs as i can usueally fix anything with a deformer.
You beat me to it.
I can sort of understand the obsession with skimpwear. Because who doesn't like to make renders of sexy nearly-naked people fighting monsters in their underwear? I will confess, I have bought -- and used -- my share of skimpy content over the years. Let he who is without skin cast the first render, as they say.
But asymmetry? What in the name of Victoria is that about? If you discount the odd off-the-shoulder dress, I don't believe I've ever seen asymmetric "let's suddenly expose a random body part" on an actual living human being. (OK, I've never seen a satin chastity belt with wrought iron links and pauldrons either, but that's just because I don't get out much). Yet some days it seems as if every second clothing outfit on offer has this weird one-sided peekaboo thing going on. Or if it's symmetric, then it has random holes punched in it to reveal navels or thighs or sideboobs or what-have-you. (Note: it's not actually every second outfit. I had to hunt long and hard to come up with examples. But they are there, at a statistically significant level).
I don't intend any disrespect to the content artists, such as Rhiannon, whose work sparked this latest rant. Mischief is a really beautiful piece of work, both in modeling and texturing. If it had a full leg on the left side, and a full sleeve, and if the top was symmetrical ... or maybe if it just had a full leg and a full sleeve ... or anything except that weird thigh-exposing business going on on the left leg ... then it would have hit my shopping cart so fast it would have left a smoking crater.
But as it is, No Sale.
Artists, please: if you want to make an otherwise modest outfit that randomly exposes bits of flesh -- whether the exposure is symmetric or asymmetric -- please, please, see if there's a way that you can make it optional. Because I'd be willing to bet that an outfit where the buyer can choose whether to flash random bits of the wearer's skin will sell at a rate of about four or five times that of one where the choice is 'baked in'.
And if you want to make a version of Mischief that doesn't look like someone dragged a medieval huntress into a Frederick's of Hollywood and set about mugging her with a pair of kitchen shears, then, so help me, I will buy that. Like, instantly.
I was actually really impressed with recent things like the trenchcoat for g3f that actually looks like something someone might actually think about actually wearing. Sadly, I'm broke. Anyway.
Obviously I can't speak for any artists here, but I get the impression that everyone feels like their outfits have to stand out and be recognisable as their outfits in some way... and that's exactly the reason I don't buy any of them (except for a few exceptions, like Aeon Soul's that have a billion show/hide capabilities.) Background characters can't wear them, and Main characters kind of lose that personal touch when they're wearing a known recognised fancy impractical outfit that wasn't made for them.
I wouldn't mind seeing some really basic clothing like tops, tshirts, and jeans, but super detailed, high quality, and HD to match all the HD characters we get now. I don't know how popular that would be. Maybe they're selling enough one legged boob fighter suits to people who have different taste to me to be happy with what they're doing. Or maybe the sorts of things that get made are just what they really wanted to make, and that's fine. But I've explained why I won't buy it.
I practically cried when I found Beat578's G2 Skidress freebie: real clothing that might be worn by a real human being in a real situation. I looked at it and immediately thought "Oh yes, I can use that." Whereas skimpwear and exposure-wear just makes me go "Uh, yeah, well, I guess. But how about 'no'?"
The skimpwear is fun and fine, but I still think the content creators are missing out on a market for clothing that looks like it might be worn by real people. Bring on the parkas and coveralls and puffy jackets and trenchcoats and windcheaters and practical armor and raid jackets and pants-and-tunic sets that aren't strategically cut to show off the wearer's mons veneris, etc. etc.
When I started learning how to rig clothing, I quickly realized that a lot of skimpwear is possibly so because if mesh is not covering certain areas, they are a lot easier to rig.
For "full cloth" clothing items, many content creators would really have to learn how to rig ... a task MUCH easier these days with the new tools.
Beat578 - the day I use this ski-dress, I will make a donation (and with a big smile on my face). That is what I call "normal" , but beautifully made clothing.
As for the Mischief Outfit, I wonder if I should buy it, try if I can mend these holes womehow, if not, it goes back to DAZ ...
... or maybe, the vendor reads this thread and starts a texture set without holes.
I refuse to make anything that is skimpwear. There is far too much of this sort of thing in the store. My items have to be either historical or everyday wear, or I won't make them.
I don't mind skimpwear so much. I like having a range of clothing from skimpy to more everyday sort of stuff (although this store does seem to heavily favour skimpy outfits). Where I usually draw the line is very asymmetrical skimpwear because I think it looks ridiculous and ugly.
I don't have any issues with skimpy clothing at all. You can have skimpy everyday clothing (if in doubt, move to a warm place.)
For me, it's not the fact that it's skimpy; it's simply unusable for anything but a one off pinup.
(Again this is not ALL clothing in the store. Experience has taught me the need to state the mind bleedingly obvious these days.)
You also have a solid lack of bias when it comes to creating. While perhaps not 50/50, Male clothing of the normal variety are common, span timelines, and represent multiple cultures. At least I can see some British vs. American variations.
Thank you for your hard work.
There are so many clothing for female characters that are supposedly for the purpose of engaging in war or battle, but you look at the outfit and go "what? one is supposed to fight in this outfit"? Like the new Soldier of Chaos Outfit for Genesis 3 Female(s)....how is one really supposed to fight comfortably in this outfit? It really really does make one wonder what or how artists come up with this stuff. Forget about creativity, how about practicality?
I think a lot of the clothing is purely designed for the wearer to commit suicide in interesting and unusual ways. Certainly most of the "armour" I've seen in the store would be suicidal to the wearer in a combat situation that had actual weapons and competant fighters.
I was very tempted by the trenchcoat, as something sensible and practical, until I saw it was G3 only, and so no good to me.
And again, Mischief - if that had been symmetrical, even if it had the option for silly holes... well, it would still have been no sale cos G3. Actually, it would would work for me sleeveless, but that silly trouser leg ... no.
And Victorian Huntress Steampunk - that would exactly fit a character I have, perfectly. Only... you guessed it: G3.
So that's 3 no sales that could have been sales for me.
valzheimer's Genesis 3 Female for Genesis 2 Female(s) product claims to "smoothly fit any Genesis 3 Female conforming clothes to Genesis 2 Female(s) using the Autofit in DAZ Studio". It was on sale recently as part of a flash sale (60% off), and the flash/blink sales seem to be repeating currently. It might be worth following the flash sale alerts thread just in case that one comes round again. With more and more G3 content coming down the pipe, it could be a handy thing for G2 holdouts to have in their toolbox.
I picked it up during the recent sale, but haven't had time to try it yet, so I can't say how well it works. Caveat emptor, etc.
As far as accuracy. I would give it a 6/10. Genesis to Genesis 2 is more accurate. So is V4 to Genesis 2. It's not very accurate at all. Without smoothing mods (which destroy detail and I hate using them) You're better of saving your money until a new and improved updated conversion comes out. As it sits right now I've yet to load a G3 clothing atrical onto a G2 without poke throughs.
This outfit would've been cool with a full base base with a sexy variation.
I'm a G2 holdout because Carrara, so G3 for G2 may not be viable as a solution (but then again it might). I can always return it if it doesn't work out.
Same here. I would have been sorely tempted had the pants been whole. It would have at least made it to the wishlist.
I laughed so hard, I cried. And you are so "right on the money." And that bit about dragging a character into a Fredrick's of Hollywood and mugging her with a pair of kitchen shear could describe so many of the clothing items these days... (I really appreciate the clothing items that don't have the holes modeled in, like the Ghost Bride...)
I put the trench coat into my wishlist. Actually most things are going in there, as I spent so much money during the PA Festival, most purchases this month are "robbing Peter to pay Paul." But I will buy it, once I build up the coffers again.
I would also like to see some really basic clothing, "supper detailed, high quality, and HD." I always thought the reason for not seeing a lot of these is it's so hard to create a contemporary style that has mass appeal. Same is true in real life... just go to the department store and look at the clearance racks!
And it is greatly appreciated. Thank you.
This is so true. And not just the skimpware. So much of the scifi/fantasy clothing can't be kitbashed into anything contemporary.
LOL... everytime I see something like this, I think to myself, "No way. If I'm going to battle, I want to dress like the men. I don't want my opponents realizing I'm a woman." I haven't bought any of the skimpware fight outfits, but the full set of armor for G3F was an instant buy, when it came out.
I bought it then, too. And I have tried it. It works just as well as the rest of auto-fit. Maybe better. At least on the items I've tried. Now I'm not as reluctant to put a G3F only clothing item in my cart. Though I'm still more willing to buy items that support both G2f and G3F in one product. If the item is something I'd normally buy, that is.
I'd like to also say thank you to the vendors for the boots, though. Have you notice how the last few products have had reasonable heels? I guess they were listening when so many of complained about how ridiculous spiked heels were for a fighter or hunter! That includes Mischief Outfit. I don't really have a need for Mischief, but if it had been symmetrical with full coverage, I know I would buy it anyway, at some point. If only for the boots!
I swear I'm tempted to buy the Mischief thing for the boots. Those are great boots.
If I had a modeling program and knew how to use it, I'd load those pants and split them down the middle, mirror the intact side and join them. For silliness I might even do the same for the stupid side and use them over leggings as chaps. Of course i'd have to learn to rig them...
Thanks for the thread, and for bringing my attention to the Mischief outfit. I must say I didn't even glance at it in the store until now.
In general, I really agree with the comments about the artful holes in what is supposed to be protective clothing, and don't even get me started on how our female warriors are supposed to get anything done while tripping around in the muck of the wilderness wearing stilleto heels.
But this outfit is really good. The "jacket" is a seperate piece leaving an asymetreical, it is true, but really serviceable and stylish tank top underneath. The tank top has nicely modeled wrinkles, doesn't stick like cling wrap, and I'm picturing it with that long bohemian skirt of Emma and Jordi's, or pick any skirt or pants really. A tank like that can go anywhere, and do anything. Hey, if Sarah Conner can fight Terminators in a full coverage tank top, my girl can run around in the steamy woods fighting trolls in one too.
The pants, I'm with you and I don't get the hole in the side held up with an industrial buckle, except that Rhiannon has used that sort of detail before, and it is a mark of her style. I swapped in a the pants from Dark Storm, and stuck a leather shader on them to blend in with the rest of the outfit. A couple quick collision adjustments for the pants with the boots and thigh band, and problem solved.
The boots, OMG the boots. Flats, really well made, excellent details, FBM adjustment morph, and a removeable throwing dagger? What is not to like? I would (and have) paid more than the asking price of under $6 just for boots by Rhiannon. This set gives me a really great tank top, excellent boots, bracers, thigh band and swords. I snapped it up.
Here is a pic without the jacket.
This is number one for me. Since Genesis I have found myself using D-Formers more and more on clothing to get that Generation 4 clothing movement I was so used to.
And I have almost every single item you have made because of it. and if i want to put holes in any of it I will do it in photoshop lol.
Now she looks like she could get something done. Now I have to go add another item to my wish list. I have got to stop coming to the forums. But then I wouldn't learn anything either.
I usually solve the "unnessecary holes" problem with adding undergarnments. That is, I change the skin of the nessecary bodypart to something else with the help of a fitting texture. For this dress I might use a leather texture. Many skimpy-armor have been enhanced with chainmail textures to make more believable warriors that way. The important thing here is to be careful with displacement maps though to avoid pokethroughs.
Two things. First, thank you for the information on the quality of Rhiannon's products. As a relative newbie, I had no idea. Knowing this will affect my decision making about her (his?) products in the future.
Second, thanks for sharing that image. Without the jacket, that tank top does look really good, in spite of the asymmetrical hemline. I don't know that I have need for bracers, thigh band or swords, but I'm pretty sure I can find a use for the boots. So... I just added Mischief to the my wishlist!
Exactly, truly tired of skimming through skimpwear, reason I enjoy using all your beautiful fashions
all your fashions work fabulous with figure models. Thanks for sharing/providing for community.
Hey! That's exactly how I planned to use this outfit. The pants and 'shoulder part' are totally useless, but the rest works.
BTW. Check out the Rectifier outfit. Part Sci-Fi female contemporary military outift, part lingerie. Oy Vey!
I'm wondering what people think of things like this http://www.daz3d.com/attica-for-genesis-3-female-s
Personally I think it's pretty cool, and generic enough to be used multiple times.
Also while I was browsing around to look at things I can't buy, I found this http://www.daz3d.com/tau-ceti-overseer
And I guess it might not be to everyone's tastes? But to me that is insanely cool. I love the design, it's practical, it's pretty without sticking out like a sore thumb, it has many parts and adjustments as well as hide mods on top of that, and 3 complete textures out of the box. Yes, it's a bit more expensive than other clothing, but to me 100% worth it.
Note: Not trying to advertise any particular items or vendors, simply showing examples of things I came across that I think constitute really useful clothing, as the thread is titled.