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Genesis 8.1 M&F Anatomical Elements?

maikdeckermaikdecker Posts: 2,750
edited January 2021 in The Commons

It's utterly charming that we now have the possibility to fit male anatomical elements to females and vice versa, but why don't we get also at least the basic (!) anatomical elements textures fitting to the basic textures of the corresponding figures?

As of now - I think - we would have to use a female skin texture on the male figure, and of course it has to be one which has also anatomical element textures. Alas, these male/female or female/male options don't always work properly...

So... thanks, but thanks for nothing? At least until PA start delivering the needed textures?

Or do I miss something obvious here?

Post edited by maikdecker on
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Comments

  • Catherine3678abCatherine3678ab Posts: 8,018

    maikdecker said:

    It's utterly charming that we now have the possibility to fit male anatomical elements to females and vice versa, but why don't we get also at least the basic (!) anatomical elements textures fitting to the basic textures of the corresponding figures?

    As of now - I think - we would have to use a female skin texture on the male figure, and of course it has to be one which has also anatomical element textures. Alas, these male/female or female/male options don't always work properly...

    So... thanks, but thanks for nothing? At least until PA start delivering the needed textures?

    Or do I miss something obvious here?

    Missing? Perhaps the anatomical elements which would presumably come with textures when the Pro Bundle(s) is/are purchased for 8.1.

  • maikdeckermaikdecker Posts: 2,750

    Catherine3678ab said:

    maikdecker said:

    It's utterly charming that we now have the possibility to fit male anatomical elements to females and vice versa, but why don't we get also at least the basic (!) anatomical elements textures fitting to the basic textures of the corresponding figures?

    As of now - I think - we would have to use a female skin texture on the male figure, and of course it has to be one which has also anatomical element textures. Alas, these male/female or female/male options don't always work properly...

    So... thanks, but thanks for nothing? At least until PA start delivering the needed textures?

    Or do I miss something obvious here?

    Missing? Perhaps the anatomical elements which would presumably come with textures when the Pro Bundle(s) is/are purchased for 8.1.

     Don't have those.. so does Vicky 8.1 come with textures for male and female anatomical elements?

    But why give the anatomical elements away with the basic G 8.1 figures but without textures?

  • Catherine3678abCatherine3678ab Posts: 8,018
    edited January 2021

    maikdecker said:

    Catherine3678ab said:

    maikdecker said:

    It's utterly charming that we now have the possibility to fit male anatomical elements to females and vice versa, but why don't we get also at least the basic (!) anatomical elements textures fitting to the basic textures of the corresponding figures?

    As of now - I think - we would have to use a female skin texture on the male figure, and of course it has to be one which has also anatomical element textures. Alas, these male/female or female/male options don't always work properly...

    So... thanks, but thanks for nothing? At least until PA start delivering the needed textures?

    Or do I miss something obvious here?

    Missing? Perhaps the anatomical elements which would presumably come with textures when the Pro Bundle(s) is/are purchased for 8.1.

     Don't have those.. so does Vicky 8.1 come with textures for male and female anatomical elements?

    But why give the anatomical elements away with the basic G 8.1 figures but without textures?

    They are not giving away the anatomical elements with the basic figures. The included files are solely for the uv sets - and I have no idea why they thought to include those with the base figures unless it was, possibly {just an idea}, to be a teaser for some that more was coming.

    Post edited by Catherine3678ab on
  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 17,929

    Catherine3678ab said:

    maikdecker said:

    It's utterly charming that we now have the possibility to fit male anatomical elements to females and vice versa, but why don't we get also at least the basic (!) anatomical elements textures fitting to the basic textures of the corresponding figures?

    As of now - I think - we would have to use a female skin texture on the male figure, and of course it has to be one which has also anatomical element textures. Alas, these male/female or female/male options don't always work properly...

    So... thanks, but thanks for nothing? At least until PA start delivering the needed textures?

    Or do I miss something obvious here?

    Missing? Perhaps the anatomical elements which would presumably come with textures when the Pro Bundle(s) is/are purchased for 8.1.

    No, if you buy a DAZ Originals character stand-alone that is adult they include the genitalia textures for the genitalia even though they don't include the genitalia geometry. The base characters do not and that is weird. You can't buy a 'Pro Base G8.1F' or a 'Pro Base G8.1M' character to get those textures either although the geometry is interchangable so you can buy any pro character to get that.

    I agree that the Base Genesis 8 / 8.1 Female and Male should have genitalia textures. They are adult characters and still among the best DAZ 3D offers at any price. Most of the other adults are gaunt; sinewly & rawboned, characters or roided out, but the base Genesis 8 are quite normal (LOL, by past standards, in the US they seem downright thin at any age nowadays).

    It would be nice if vellus hair, fibre hair, and fibre eyebrows were also included. I've got those already via other purchases, but I have this thing about functional completeness, even if I hardly ever use all of those things.

    In my opinion making a functionally complete high quality character as the free giveaway base helps sales more than it hinders potential sales. 

  • MistaraMistara Posts: 38,675

    the hd addon doesnt mention if it includes for the anatomical, says 6 normal maps.  if the hd product doesnt mention it, means it doesnt?

  • Catherine3678abCatherine3678ab Posts: 8,018

    nonesuch00 said:

    Catherine3678ab said:

    maikdecker said:

    It's utterly charming that we now have the possibility to fit male anatomical elements to females and vice versa, but why don't we get also at least the basic (!) anatomical elements textures fitting to the basic textures of the corresponding figures?

    As of now - I think - we would have to use a female skin texture on the male figure, and of course it has to be one which has also anatomical element textures. Alas, these male/female or female/male options don't always work properly...

    So... thanks, but thanks for nothing? At least until PA start delivering the needed textures?

    Or do I miss something obvious here?

    Missing? Perhaps the anatomical elements which would presumably come with textures when the Pro Bundle(s) is/are purchased for 8.1.

    No, if you buy a DAZ Originals character stand-alone that is adult they include the genitalia textures for the genitalia even though they don't include the genitalia geometry. The base characters do not and that is weird. You can't buy a 'Pro Base G8.1F' or a 'Pro Base G8.1M' character to get those textures either although the geometry is interchangable so you can buy any pro character to get that.

    I agree that the Base Genesis 8 / 8.1 Female and Male should have genitalia textures. They are adult characters and still among the best DAZ 3D offers at any price. Most of the other adults are gaunt; sinewly & rawboned, characters or roided out, but the base Genesis 8 are quite normal (LOL, by past standards, in the US they seem downright thin at any age nowadays).

    It would be nice if vellus hair, fibre hair, and fibre eyebrows were also included. I've got those already via other purchases, but I have this thing about functional completeness, even if I hardly ever use all of those things.

    In my opinion making a functionally complete high quality character as the free giveaway base helps sales more than it hinders potential sales. 

    I hope that you were not reading that I was suggesting one could buy a Pro Base G8.1 figure because I wasn't. I was referring to the V8.1 and M8.1 Pro Bundles, just sometimes don't spell out every single little detail - the Pro Bundles were being released the same day as the Base Figures. 

    Some adult stand alone characters come with "all" textures, some do not. Hence the importance of a well written Product Page.

    Yes the genitalia textures for the base figures would have been nice.

     

  • PtropePtrope Posts: 679

    The Victoria 8.1 Loving Life Bundle says it comes with both Genesis 8 male and female "anatomical elements" - are these textures or actual geometry?

  • Catherine3678abCatherine3678ab Posts: 8,018

    Ptrope said:

    The Victoria 8.1 Loving Life Bundle says it comes with both Genesis 8 male and female "anatomical elements" - are these textures or actual geometry?

    These should be the included geometry :-) 

    • Genesis 8 Female Anatomical Elements
    • Genesis 8 Male Anatomical Elements
    • Genesis 8.1 Female Vellus Hair
  • maikdeckermaikdecker Posts: 2,750

    So to sum it up:

    1. DAZ advertises the new G8.1 generation stating "Male anatomical elements will now work on females. Conversely, female anatomical elements will work on males." which is true
    2. DAZ doesn't deliver any textures/material files for female anatomical elements on G8.1M or for male anatomical elements on G8.1F
    3. Vicky and Michael for G8.1 DO come with anatomical elements textures/material (or at least shows them in the file lists for both figures; can't check for truth as I don't own those figures and don't have the intent to buy them)
    4. New PA made figures for the G8.1 generation might or might not include one or both anatomical elements textures/materials denpending on the PA

    So, business as usual for anatomical elements for the basic G8.1 figures? You might get them, but to be able to use them you need to jump through to some extras hoops or spend addionatial money?

    Seems so to me.

  • PtropePtrope Posts: 679

    It's the Daz "perv penalty" ;)

  • TimbalesTimbales Posts: 2,252
    Mystiarra said:

    the hd addon doesnt mention if it includes for the anatomical, says 6 normal maps.  if the hd product doesnt mention it, means it doesnt?

    None of the male Daz Original figures I have for G8M include normal maps for his genitals.
  • PerttiAPerttiA Posts: 9,487

    Ptrope said:

    It's the Daz "perv penalty" ;)

    Maybe the same principles could be applied to real humans as well, you have to be an adult before you could have the "tools" and even then only if you paid for the licence laugh 

  • maikdeckermaikdecker Posts: 2,750

    Ptrope said:

    It's the Daz "perv penalty" ;)

    From that base of thinking chickens would also have to be banworthy, due to the old saying: "It's kinky to use a feather when lovemaking, but it gets pervy when..." well, guess You either know or can imagine it goes on... devil

  • PtropePtrope Posts: 679

    Follow-up question: in the bundles, the anatomical elements say "Genesis 8," not "Genesis 8.1" - does this mean existing gens for either G8M or G8F will work with both G8.1 figures? Or is the missing ".1" a typo?

  • The Blurst of TimesThe Blurst of Times Posts: 2,410

    I've been attaching the Genesis 8 anatomical elements to Genesis 8.1. It's not a new prop, anyway. It's the same Genesis 8 prop.

    If you have morphs for the gens, then they still apply even though you're using Genesis 8.1.

  • onixonix Posts: 282

    I do not care about anatomical elements, but what I really want to see is how the hell Daz manages to apply geograft to the figure which vertices do not match (and I guess they do not match on purpose to make such an application impossible) 

     

     

    The Blurst of Times said:

    I've been attaching the Genesis 8 anatomical elements to Genesis 8.1. It's not a new prop, anyway. It's the same Genesis 8 prop.

    If you have morphs for the gens, then they still apply even though you're using Genesis 8.1.

     

    yes you can fit it but you need to do some tinkering 

    but where is the promised interchangeability between genders

  • fred9803fred9803 Posts: 1,559

    The Blurst of Times said:

    I've been attaching the Genesis 8 anatomical elements to Genesis 8.1. It's not a new prop, anyway. It's the same Genesis 8 prop.

    If you have morphs for the gens, then they still apply even though you're using Genesis 8.1.

    According to Richard mod the anatomical elements provided with the G8.1 bundles are not the same as the existing G8 ones. See attached link.

  • Roman_K2Roman_K2 Posts: 1,206
    edited January 2021

    FWIW (this is a partial solution) there is always M4, at least for still images (and maybe some GIF or other animations.)

    1. Finish your artwork, whatever it may be.

    2. Load M4 and adjust with a pose/camera angle that resembles your artwork. On some of my computers V4 and M4 do not always load very well. These days M4 seems to pop up with boxer shorts - go to the "no shorts" skin map.

    3. Assuming you can get the base figure to work, you can now add the M4 "gens" - on my computer this is under products - look under letter "M" and it is hidden in dozens of choices of expressions and skin maps and whatnot. The first time I noticed it -- by chance as it were -- I thought "Hmmm, what's this?" indecision

    4. Switch to the geometry editor and remove most of the figure - eg. why waste time rendering the parts of M4 that you don't need?

    5. Render as a .TIFF image, eg. on a transparent background. Render it big, so you will have some wiggle room when shrinking things.

    6. Load everything in an image editor. Using a feathered lasso tool, draw a circle around the M4 gens and select "Copy". Presto, paste the now fuzzy-edged M4 gens as a new layer, eg. like a "sandwich" of layers where your otherwise finished artwork ends up below the gens layer. Nudge and/or stretch/shrink/warp/puppet warp (this part is cute) to pull things into position. Add a bit of drop shadow and/or darken the creases a bit and flatten the image.

    Post edited by Roman_K2 on
  • maikdeckermaikdecker Posts: 2,750

    Roman_K2 said:

    FWIW (this is a partial solution) there is always M4, at least for still images (and maybe some GIF or other animations.)

    A very interesting solution for whatever problem it is supposed to solve... 

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 11,037
    edited January 2021

    fred9803 said:

    The Blurst of Times said:

    I've been attaching the Genesis 8 anatomical elements to Genesis 8.1. It's not a new prop, anyway. It's the same Genesis 8 prop.

    If you have morphs for the gens, then they still apply even though you're using Genesis 8.1.

    According to Richard mod the anatomical elements provided with the G8.1 bundles are not the same as the existing G8 ones. See attached link.

    What Richard said in that post is that the "G8.1 male elements for female" and the "G8 male elements" are different items, not that the anatomical elements provided with 8.1 are different from the ones provided with 8. 
    They are the same, and if you own a G8 pro bundle you'll get the update with the version for the opposite figure even if you don't buy the 8.1 bundles.

    Post edited by Leana on
  • HaruchaiHaruchai Posts: 1,884

    As to the textures use this - 

    Genesis 8 UV Swap: Male and Female Base | 3D Models and 3D Software by Daz 3D

    I have used this to change the UV on the figure and use character skins that have the corresponding anatomical elements textures. If using males on females you might want to find some with less/no body hair but that depends on what you are trying to achieve. LIE makeup also helps.

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 17,929

    Leana said:

    fred9803 said:

    The Blurst of Times said:

    I've been attaching the Genesis 8 anatomical elements to Genesis 8.1. It's not a new prop, anyway. It's the same Genesis 8 prop.

    If you have morphs for the gens, then they still apply even though you're using Genesis 8.1.

    According to Richard mod the anatomical elements provided with the G8.1 bundles are not the same as the existing G8 ones. See attached link.

    What Richard said in that post is that the "G8.1 male elements for female" and the "G8 male elements" are different items, not that the anatomical elements provided with 8.1 are different from the ones provided with 8. 
    They are the same, and if you own a G8 pro bundle you'll get the update with the version for the opposite figure even if you don't buy the 8.1 bundles.

    I wonder why they went to all the trouble of creating male anatomical elements for the female and female anatomical elements for the male but didn't include the morphs masculinizing the G8.1F and feminizing the G8.1M. It seems sort of incomplete work not to have done so. Of course the result might then be villianized as an 'unrealistic ideal Barbie and Ken' since then all the G8M / G8F body type morphs couldn't be applied to the opposite gender in any case.

  • UHFUHF Posts: 512

    Well, you never know when you might wanna get your Futa on.  :-)   And your character will need to be a contortionist to show off the facial improvements.

    I'm not sure the '.1's are worth the effort.  Maybe the expressions are, but I'll wait and see. I'm not even looking at the Genesis 8.1.   I'll wait and see how long till all the bugs are worked out.

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 11,037

    nonesuch00 said:

    Leana said:

    fred9803 said:

    The Blurst of Times said:

    I've been attaching the Genesis 8 anatomical elements to Genesis 8.1. It's not a new prop, anyway. It's the same Genesis 8 prop.

    If you have morphs for the gens, then they still apply even though you're using Genesis 8.1.

    According to Richard mod the anatomical elements provided with the G8.1 bundles are not the same as the existing G8 ones. See attached link.

    What Richard said in that post is that the "G8.1 male elements for female" and the "G8 male elements" are different items, not that the anatomical elements provided with 8.1 are different from the ones provided with 8. 
    They are the same, and if you own a G8 pro bundle you'll get the update with the version for the opposite figure even if you don't buy the 8.1 bundles.

    I wonder why they went to all the trouble of creating male anatomical elements for the female and female anatomical elements for the male but didn't include the morphs masculinizing the G8.1F and feminizing the G8.1M. It seems sort of incomplete work not to have done so. Of course the result might then be villianized as an 'unrealistic ideal Barbie and Ken' since then all the G8M / G8F body type morphs couldn't be applied to the opposite gender in any case.

    There are transgender shapes available in the store: https://www.daz3d.com/transgender-shapes-for-genesis-8

  • WillDupreWillDupre Posts: 71

    Catherine3678ab said:

    maikdecker said:

    Catherine3678ab said:

    maikdecker said:

    It's utterly charming that we now have the possibility to fit male anatomical elements to females and vice versa, but why don't we get also at least the basic (!) anatomical elements textures fitting to the basic textures of the corresponding figures?

    As of now - I think - we would have to use a female skin texture on the male figure, and of course it has to be one which has also anatomical element textures. Alas, these male/female or female/male options don't always work properly...

    So... thanks, but thanks for nothing? At least until PA start delivering the needed textures?

    Or do I miss something obvious here?

    Missing? Perhaps the anatomical elements which would presumably come with textures when the Pro Bundle(s) is/are purchased for 8.1.

     Don't have those.. so does Vicky 8.1 come with textures for male and female anatomical elements?

    But why give the anatomical elements away with the basic G 8.1 figures but without textures?

    They are not giving away the anatomical elements with the basic figures. The included files are solely for the uv sets - and I have no idea why they thought to include those with the base figures unless it was, possibly {just an idea}, to be a teaser for some that more was coming.

    I believe the reason the UVs for the genitals are provided is because of an annoying issue with Hierarchichal Mat presets, If an H Mat includes materials for a figure or conformer that the end user doesn't have that H mat will throw up an error because it can't find the UV for every item in the mat, I assume that DAZ wants to be able to provide materials for their characters which contain genital materials without having to complicate things for the customer by providing seperate H-mats for with and without Genitals.

  • SevrinSevrin Posts: 6,301

    UHF said:

    Well, you never know when you might wanna get your Futa on.  :-)   And your character will need to be a contortionist to show off the facial improvements.

    I'm not sure the '.1's are worth the effort.  Maybe the expressions are, but I'll wait and see. I'm not even looking at the Genesis 8.1.   I'll wait and see how long till all the bugs are worked out.

    Yeah, I mean it's interesting stuff and all, but it's weird how clunky the rollout is.  It's not like there's a rush.  Genesis 8 was fine (not perfect!) a couple of weeks ago, and nothing about 8.1 changed that.

  • 3dTox3dTox Posts: 82

    Would it technically be possible to split the UV for the anatomical male elements into 2 or 3 material zones?  One so that the torso/body mats can be copied and used and 2 material zones for the genetailia portion and the testes portion.  It would make creating a texture to use on actors that don't come with premade textures so much easier.  Any slight discoloration would be easier to hide and would allow for different detail maps to be used for the different material zones

  • leo04leo04 Posts: 317

    So just how do I make a UV map for the 8.1 genitalia be it on a male or female?  I used to create that with a shader preset for GF2 and 3 but now I am not sure how to move forward.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 96,956

    Make a UV mapping, or select which UV set to use?

  • ANGELREAPER1972ANGELREAPER1972 Posts: 4,413

    Leana said:

    nonesuch00 said:

    Leana said:

    fred9803 said:

    The Blurst of Times said:

    I've been attaching the Genesis 8 anatomical elements to Genesis 8.1. It's not a new prop, anyway. It's the same Genesis 8 prop.

    If you have morphs for the gens, then they still apply even though you're using Genesis 8.1.

    According to Richard mod the anatomical elements provided with the G8.1 bundles are not the same as the existing G8 ones. See attached link.

    What Richard said in that post is that the "G8.1 male elements for female" and the "G8 male elements" are different items, not that the anatomical elements provided with 8.1 are different from the ones provided with 8. 
    They are the same, and if you own a G8 pro bundle you'll get the update with the version for the opposite figure even if you don't buy the 8.1 bundles.

    I wonder why they went to all the trouble of creating male anatomical elements for the female and female anatomical elements for the male but didn't include the morphs masculinizing the G8.1F and feminizing the G8.1M. It seems sort of incomplete work not to have done so. Of course the result might then be villianized as an 'unrealistic ideal Barbie and Ken' since then all the G8M / G8F body type morphs couldn't be applied to the opposite gender in any case.

    There are transgender shapes available in the store: https://www.daz3d.com/transgender-shapes-for-genesis-8

    just don't upload renders featuring them on this site as it goes against the TOS here, found that out the hard way no pun, ended up returning this for a refund because of that and it was tactfully revealed to me from several differant departments here 

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