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Sept 2016 New User Contest "Depth of Field" (WIP Thread)

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  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited September 2016
    aaráribel caađo said:

    I went back to this. I didn't like geometry in the background for a studio shot, but thought I should revise the background, so I lightened the shader on the background and used a contrast colored-light to give it some texture. With the camera pulled out, this hopefully shows off the depth of field more effectively. Color toning and film grain added in Photoshop/NIK Tools..

    A simple gradient or 'burst' pattern on the backdrop would add a little 'punch' and make it seem more like 'something' is there.  What little variation there is, is obviously just from the lights.

    Post edited by mjc1016 on
  • aaráribel caađoaaráribel caađo Posts: 686
    mjc1016 said:
    aaráribel caađo said:

    A simple gradient or 'burst' pattern on the backdrop would add a little 'punch' and make it seem more like 'something' is there.  What little variation there is, is obviously just from the lights.

    Thanks!

    I tried a pattern on the backdrop, but with such shallow depth of field, it just gets blurred into a fairly flat field. I guess the question is, does this image not feel "punchy" enough without a more complicated background? I'm going for a studio head portrait, so I'm thinking something more like what Peter Hurley does, but with exaggerated DoF. But maybe that isn't working. Or maybe my lighting is still too flat… Interesting, Hurley appears to use fairly even lighting on women, while going with more contrast in the lighting with men; and the men tend to face the camera directly, while the women don't.

  • dreamfarmerdreamfarmer Posts: 2,128
    edited September 2016

    It's funny how depth of field looks a lot like frosted glass. :/

    "Old Industry"



     

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  • FrankTheTankFrankTheTank Posts: 1,185
    edited January 2018

      

    Post edited by FrankTheTank on
  • dreamfarmerdreamfarmer Posts: 2,128
    DvoraszeniaStudios said:
    dreamfarmer said:

    It's funny how depth of field looks a lot like frosted glass. :/

    "Old Industry"

    I like this idea. But I think you should try to get some reflections of her in the window. And that faint grid-like pattern on the glass is distracting and doesn't look like glass. It doesn't seem to be a reflection of anything in the room. I haven't played around with that set yet to know so I could be wrong.

    Yeah, the pattern on the window is a legacy of applying the Architectural shader to the building. Easy to fix and while I was at it, I poked at creating a reflection. Unfortunately using the Iray PBR stuff makes it hard (for me anyhow) to get a reflection on the side of the window where it's darker (aka inside the building). I'm seeing if I can grub up the glass the same way I grubbed up Karynna, which, if it works, could be interesting.

    I'm also trying to figure out a way to enhance the raven, which might be hard given it's from a low-rez model set. Maybe I'll change the color.

  • XangthXangth Posts: 127
    edited September 2016

    Hello all. I have a couple of things I am working on for this contest before it ends one render in Bryce and one I am doing in the Daz Studio. I have not gotten far enough with the Daz Studio render project but here is the render from Bryce with a Depth of field for this contest.

    Title: Mission Complete

    Bryce 7 Render 20 hrs

     

     

    mission_complete.jpg
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    Post edited by Xangth on
  • Shinji Ikari 9thShinji Ikari 9th Posts: 1,188
    Xangth said:

    Hello all. I have a couple of things I am working on for this contest before it ends one render in Bryce and one I am doing in the Daz Studio. I have not gotten far enough with the Daz Studio render project but here is the render from Bryce with a Depth of field for this contest.

    Title: Mission Complete

    Bryce 7 Render 20 hrs

     

     

    Looks good. Can I ask what he's packing?

  • social_stigmasocial_stigma Posts: 107
    edited September 2016
    aaráribel caađo said:
    mjc1016 said:
    aaráribel caađo said:

    A simple gradient or 'burst' pattern on the backdrop would add a little 'punch' and make it seem more like 'something' is there.  What little variation there is, is obviously just from the lights.

    Thanks!

    I tried a pattern on the backdrop, but with such shallow depth of field, it just gets blurred into a fairly flat field. I guess the question is, does this image not feel "punchy" enough without a more complicated background? I'm going for a studio head portrait, so I'm thinking something more like what Peter Hurley does, but with exaggerated DoF. But maybe that isn't working. Or maybe my lighting is still too flat… Interesting, Hurley appears to use fairly even lighting on women, while going with more contrast in the lighting with men; and the men tend to face the camera directly, while the women don't.

    the angle and lighting hurley seems to use for women provide a softer look (sort of the idea old movies had in using gaussian blur or a "vaseline" lense for closeups of women). higher contrast for lighting can make contours look more angular (thus more masculine) and the slightly turned posture is generally considered slimming.

    as for your background, if you point a light fairly straight at it (off to the side of the image) but angled slightly toward the center, you should get a gradient effect similar to what hurley uses. if that explanation makes any sense.

    he also seems to crop his images a bit wider, getting some shoulder in the frame.

    one thing that pops out in your portrait is the eyes - they look a little too wide open. you might try closing the eyelids just slightly.

    btw, i think your model/subject choice is fantastic.

    Post edited by social_stigma on
  • Shinji Ikari 9thShinji Ikari 9th Posts: 1,188

    Found myself having yet another idea for my furry captain. I think that I'm done with my first corrador render and should try to think of a title.

    P.S. BTW the set of this idea and the one just mentioned are by the same artist. A 3DC over at renderocity. I recomend looking them up and taking a look.

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  • dawnbladedawnblade Posts: 1,723

    Any comments on my "I'll Scratch That Itch!" submission with the Ogre and War Bird would be greatly appreciated when you get a chance.smiley

  • dawnbladedawnblade Posts: 1,723
    Shinji Ikari 9th said:

    Found myself having yet another idea for my furry captain. I think that I'm done with my first corrador render and should try to think of a title.

    P.S. BTW the set of this idea and the one just mentioned are by the same artist. A 3DC over at renderocity. I recomend looking them up and taking a look.

    Cool prop! I didn't find it on renderocity, can you post a link to it?

    I like the second image with the guy trying to catch up. My suggestion is to add more light to the 2 primary figures. Can't see face of the one next to cheetah girl because of dim lights.

  • saintneversaintnever Posts: 7

    Being bigger than life.

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  • saintneversaintnever Posts: 7

    I'm thinking I attached that wrong...

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 33,604

    No it's fine you attached it right.   If you want to bring it up to an in line render than you need to click on the attachment thumbnail to bring it up to full size, and then right click on that, select "Copy Image Location"

    Then click on the image iconl, up there in the rich text tool box

    And in that box insert the image location here.

  • saintneversaintnever Posts: 7
    edited September 2016

    Awesome!! Exactly what I needed!!

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    Post edited by saintnever on
  • saintneversaintnever Posts: 7

    ...I reeeeeeeally like DoF, so this contest is a blast for me! :D

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  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    tubbyfalls1 said:
    aaráribel caađo said:
    mjc1016 said:
    aaráribel caađo said:

    A simple gradient or 'burst' pattern on the backdrop would add a little 'punch' and make it seem more like 'something' is there.  What little variation there is, is obviously just from the lights.

    Thanks!

    I tried a pattern on the backdrop, but with such shallow depth of field, it just gets blurred into a fairly flat field. I guess the question is, does this image not feel "punchy" enough without a more complicated background? I'm going for a studio head portrait, so I'm thinking something more like what Peter Hurley does, but with exaggerated DoF. But maybe that isn't working. Or maybe my lighting is still too flat… Interesting, Hurley appears to use fairly even lighting on women, while going with more contrast in the lighting with men; and the men tend to face the camera directly, while the women don't.

    the angle and lighting hurley seems to use for women provide a softer look (sort of the idea old movies had in using gaussian blur or a "vaseline" lense for closeups of women). higher contrast for lighting can make contours look more angular (thus more masculine) and the slightly turned posture is generally considered slimming.

    as for your background, if you point a light fairly straight at it (off to the side of the image) but angled slightly toward the center, you should get a gradient effect similar to what hurley uses. if that explanation makes any sense.

    he also seems to crop his images a bit wider, getting some shoulder in the frame.

    one thing that pops out in your portrait is the eyes - they look a little too wide open. you might try closing the eyelids just slightly.

    btw, i think your model/subject choice is fantastic.

    Going along with that...the pupils are a bit too dialated for the amount of light reaching them.

  • BorisBadenovBorisBadenov Posts: 51

    I had a vision for this image, but never imagined it would come out like this.  I wanted some subtle lighting effects, cool reflections and, of course, DOF!

    The stuff I thought would be hard came out really nice.  I thought posing would be easy, but the hardest part for me was posing the hand.  Aargh!  I still don't like it!!

    Any ideas for improvement (in any area, of course) would be welcome.

     

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  • saintneversaintnever Posts: 7
    BorisBadenov said:

    I had a vision for this image, but never imagined it would come out like this.  I wanted some subtle lighting effects, cool reflections and, of course, DOF!

    The stuff I thought would be hard came out really nice.  I thought posing would be easy, but the hardest part for me was posing the hand.  Aargh!  I still don't like it!!

    Any ideas for improvement (in any area, of course) would be welcome.

     

    You could try zooming in on her a bit more (bringing the two foreground pieces more to your thirds area) and then shorten your F-stop a bit. Does that make sense? I feel like this an AWESOME render and concept, but what I think you are looking for is a little better framing of the shot.

     

  • BorisBadenovBorisBadenov Posts: 51

    Well, that's not working.  I don't really understand f stop enough to be able to fix it.  I tried zooming in enough to make a difference and the red pieces were almost non existent. 

    I tried to reframe everything and just messed it up.  I moved the camera down but then the king was cut off at the top.  I moved it the other way and the pawns were cut off at the bottom.  I moved it left and right but then the girl was behind either the king or the queen.  As it stands it is offset a little bit and not perfectly centered.  It may not be all the way to the thirds area the way I would like it but it will have to do I guess.

    I also noticed a weird shadow on her hand that I would like to get rid of but I'm not sure how.  Moving the lights could really change everything.

    The weekend is almost over and I probably won't have time during the week to mess with it or I would consider starting completely over from scratch.

    Thanks for the input though.  Much appreciated.

  • FrankTheTankFrankTheTank Posts: 1,185
    edited January 2018

      

    Post edited by FrankTheTank on
  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited September 2016
    aaráribel caađo said:
    mjc1016 said:
    aaráribel caađo said:

    A simple gradient or 'burst' pattern on the backdrop would add a little 'punch' and make it seem more like 'something' is there.  What little variation there is, is obviously just from the lights.

    Thanks!

    I tried a pattern on the backdrop, but with such shallow depth of field, it just gets blurred into a fairly flat field. I guess the question is, does this image not feel "punchy" enough without a more complicated background? I'm going for a studio head portrait, so I'm thinking something more like what Peter Hurley does, but with exaggerated DoF. But maybe that isn't working. Or maybe my lighting is still too flat… Interesting, Hurley appears to use fairly even lighting on women, while going with more contrast in the lighting with men; and the men tend to face the camera directly, while the women don't.

    This is something I came up with...after looking at Peter's site.

    It seems to cover some of what you say you want.

    Here's in Studio terms how to do a couple of the points you and I have raised.

    The gradient, in this case is even more simply achieved than how tubbyfalls1 mentioned.  I simply placed a back light (spotlight) down lowangled toward his head and then widend the spread angle to about 97°

    Then for the key and fill lights, I changed their geometry to Rectangle and entered 100 in height and width...that makes them basically the same as 1 meter square 'softboxes'. 

    The other change I made was to Set the Focal Length to 85mm (that's more in line with the lenses Peter uses)

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    Post edited by mjc1016 on
  • BorisBadenovBorisBadenov Posts: 51
    DvoraszeniaStudios said:
    BorisBadenov said:

    Well, that's not working.  I don't really understand f stop enough to be able to fix it.  I tried zooming in enough to make a difference and the red pieces were almost non existent. 

    I tried to reframe everything and just messed it up.  I moved the camera down but then the king was cut off at the top.  I moved it the other way and the pawns were cut off at the bottom.  I moved it left and right but then the girl was behind either the king or the queen.  As it stands it is offset a little bit and not perfectly centered.  It may not be all the way to the thirds area the way I would like it but it will have to do I guess.

    I also noticed a weird shadow on her hand that I would like to get rid of but I'm not sure how.  Moving the lights could really change everything.

    The weekend is almost over and I probably won't have time during the week to mess with it or I would consider starting completely over from scratch.

    Thanks for the input though.  Much appreciated.

    Did you check out flipmode's DOF tutorial? Its linked on the very first page.

    http://flipmode3d.com/depth-of-field-daz-studio/

    it's really very good and should help you out. And when adjusting the DOF, it really helps to look at your camera from perspective view, rather than through your camera (after you've framed your shot of course). That way you can actually see the visual of the small red-green cross hairs which will show where your focal plane is, as well as the planes in front and in back which will show your  area of sharp focus. Once you have everything framed how you want it, use the focal distance slider to put the crosshairs where you want your sharpest focus. And then just move the fstop down to decrease the area in focus, or increase fstop to increase the range of sharp focus. By looking at your camera, rather than through your camera, you will be able to see how these changes move the focal planes around and everything will make sense to you then. I've probably made this sound more confusing than it is. Just check out flipmode's tutorial.

     

     

    Thanks Dvoraszenia, (and saintnever)

    I made a few adjustments after looking at that tutorial you mentioned.  I'm not sure if the result is an improvement or not.

    Whattdya think?

     

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  • aaráribel caađoaaráribel caađo Posts: 686
    tubbyfalls1 said:
    aaráribel caađo said:

     I tried a pattern on the backdrop, but with such shallow depth of field, it just gets blurred into a fairly flat field. I guess the question is, does this image not feel "punchy" enough without a more complicated background? I'm going for a studio head portrait, so I'm thinking something more like what Peter Hurley does, but with exaggerated DoF. But maybe that isn't working. Or maybe my lighting is still too flat… Interesting, Hurley appears to use fairly even lighting on women, while going with more contrast in the lighting with men; and the men tend to face the camera directly, while the women don't.

    the angle and lighting hurley seems to use for women provide a softer look (sort of the idea old movies had in using gaussian blur or a "vaseline" lense for closeups of women). higher contrast for lighting can make contours look more angular (thus more masculine) and the slightly turned posture is generally considered slimming.

    as for your background, if you point a light fairly straight at it (off to the side of the image) but angled slightly toward the center, you should get a gradient effect similar to what hurley uses. if that explanation makes any sense.

    he also seems to crop his images a bit wider, getting some shoulder in the frame.

    one thing that pops out in your portrait is the eyes - they look a little too wide open. you might try closing the eyelids just slightly.

    btw, i think your model/subject choice is fantastic.

    Thanks. This was good to think about. I pointed my background light at a null so I could easily position it looking throught the camera. That helped get gradient. I also widened the frame. I was going for surprise in the expression, so rather than closing the eyes, I pushed the brows up a bit to make the expression more clear. 

  • aaráribel caađoaaráribel caađo Posts: 686
    aaráribel caađo said:
     
    mjc1016 said:

    It seems to cover some of what you say you want.

    Here's in Studio terms how to do a couple of the points you and I have raised.

    The gradient, in this case is even more simply achieved than how tubbyfalls1 mentioned.  I simply placed a back light (spotlight) down lowangled toward his head and then widend the spread angle to about 97°

    Then for the key and fill lights, I changed their geometry to Rectangle and entered 100 in height and width...that makes them basically the same as 1 meter square 'softboxes'. 

    The other change I made was to Set the Focal Length to 85mm (that's more in line with the lenses Peter uses)

    Thanks—these were really useful comments. Your pupil comment was really interesting. I adjusted them a bit. I switched to mimicing a Pentac 6x7 camera (frame width to 56mm, focal length to 105mm instead of the 120mm I'd been using before). My lighting wasn't too far from what you showed, although before I hadn't thought about pointing the background light to a null, which made it much easier to set up and adjust!. I have a small disk light near the camera that's set to 125 Lumens just to create a secondary reflection. The new render has to wait for an all-night date with Iray.

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  • AlacorAlacor Posts: 5

    Whelp, here goes. Long time lurker and a brand new user. Here is my very first render, aside from silly playin' around. Any help is appreciated, even basic tips!

    "Secrets over Sunset" done in Iray

     

     

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  • XangthXangth Posts: 127

     

     

    Shinji Ikari 9th said:
    Xangth said:

    Hello all. I have a couple of things I am working on for this contest before it ends one render in Bryce and one I am doing in the Daz Studio. I have not gotten far enough with the Daz Studio render project but here is the render from Bryce with a Depth of field for this contest.

    Title: Mission Complete

    Bryce 7 Render 20 hrs

     

     

    Looks good. Can I ask what he's packing?

    Reply: thanks for the comment Shinji Ikari 9th. The male charactor is holding a rifle. It is part of the Genisis namo suit it commes with a rifle, katana and another hand blade weapon. 

     

    Shinji Ikari 9th said:
    Xangth said:

    Hello all. I have a couple of things I am working on for this contest before it ends one render in Bryce and one I am doing in the Daz Studio. I have not gotten far enough with the Daz Studio render project but here is the render from Bryce with a Depth of field for this contest.

    Title: Mission Complete

    Bryce 7 Render 20 hrs

     

     

    Looks good. Can I ask what he's packing?

     

  • ewcarmanewcarman Posts: 180
    BorisBadenov said:

    Thanks Dvoraszenia, (and saintnever)

    I made a few adjustments after looking at that tutorial you mentioned.  I'm not sure if the result is an improvement or not.

    Whattdya think?

     

    This is looking really good. The DOF is great and the reflections are a nice touch. A couple of things to think about. 

    1. Her right eye seems a little crossed. My attention is drawn to it in a bad way. You might want to cheat it back a little - and really a little is probably all you need.
    2. She is partially resting her chin on her hand. I think if there was a little indentation on her cheek, it would look a little more natural. I'm not sure if that's what I'm picking up or not. I'm not sure if there is a morph you can use to try to simulate a little indentation or if you want to try deformers (which are pretty cool but can also be very frustrating). Another option would be to have her begin reaching for a piece - sort of changes the mood from one of contemplation to action, so might not be what you are looking for. If you do this I would think you'd want her to just begin to move her hand rather than have her hand almost ready to touch the piece capturing the transition from contemplation to action.

    Best of luck, whatever you decide.

  • kanegskanegs Posts: 80
    edited September 2016

    Another idea that I've been playing around with:

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    Post edited by kanegs on
  • dreamfarmerdreamfarmer Posts: 2,128
    edited September 2016

    Any more thoughts on this one before I submit it? I also have another one I'm working on that uses DoF more meaningfully  but renders take forever especially when you  have to evaluate focus...

     

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