Really intrigued by Carrara! Potential buyer with some quick questions
WsCG
Posts: 391
Hello!
So, I've been an on-again, off-again user of various Daz products. I own Hexagon and Bryce, and of course DazStudio is a free download.
I hadn't ever really checked out Carrara before, as I've been more of a Blender3D user, and even then, it's mostly been "dabbling".
However, lately, I've decided to seriously dive into 3D animation/storytelling, and have been looking into other options. I like Blender, and let's face it... you can't beat the price. However, despite being able to navigate it well enough, its setup is a little bit "messy" to me. There's no clear workflow. It's kind of all packed into the same interface, and tucked away in tabs and dropo-downs; not unlike 3DSMax in that way (and I'm really not a fan of that software).
Just out of curiosity, I came around to Daz again, as I've considered learning how to use DazStudio to create characters and such from there, at least 'til I'm good enough with modeling to create my own, along with creatures.
I started looking at Cararra and downloaded a demo I found linked on another thread. One of the first things that jumped out at me is that Cararra seems to have one of those key things I'm looking for.. an actual workflow, presented through its Assemble, Model, etc. I l*love* how everything's compartmentalized into its own part of the program, keeping everything very task-focused. That's a huuuge plus for me. I also *really* like the Storyboard section. I don't know how to use it, yet, but I can already imagine it being very helpful in creating and organizing shots, etc. In any case, the more I poked around with it, and the more features I discovered, the more and more intrigued I became. I decided that I might just have found the 3D modeling/animation solution I'm looking for.
Before I start sending out wedding invitations, though, I do have a few questions I'd like to ask of other, more experienced Cararra users, or anyone else with insight to offer.
1. Using DazStudio and Cararra3D, what would a basic workflow be to create a full animation? No particular length or complexity, just in terms of how you would typically step through the process from concept to final render? Doesn't have to be super descriptive. I'm just curious what a 35,000 foot view of a typical workflow might look like.
2. Is Cararra still being actively developed and supported, or is it in a kind of "stasis" mode, like Hexagon and Bryce seem to be? As interested as I am in diving in and learning it, I'd like to make sure Cararra has a future before I begin investing the time and money into learning it. Part of my concern is due to the fact that the only way I could find the product pages for Hexagon, Bryce, or even Carrara, was through a Google search. They all seem to be completely absent from the main website here. I did a bunch of clicking and navigating around the site, but everything brought me to something to do with DAZStudio, the software, assets, etc. So, is Carrara still being supported, or is DAZ "burying it" to put more focus on their Studio products? I'm perfectly happy to spend what's necessary to get into it, but I want to know that money's going to be well-spent.
3. Are there good, recommended training resources for Carrara? Videos, books, sites? Any of particular quality that would be good to look at first as I begin learning it? I've found some videos on YT, but they seem kinda scattered and not very topical, or focused on any particular learning path.
I think that's it for now!
Thank you for reading and for any replies y'all might provide!
Take care,
Mike
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Comments
It's funny you mention Blender, as imo that's the only other program out there in the hobbyist price range that can do nearly as much as Carrara can, except that Carrara has the (huge) plus of being able to work native with Poser/Studio characters. It's a tremendous, tremendous program, and it boggles the mind that Daz hasn't promoted it more. Best kept secret in rendering, imo. And the Carrara community here is a huge plus.
As to the questions:
1. Not sure Studio brings any benefit to the animation pipeline at all, I'd most likely cut it out. Possibly use Studio to set up pre-existing aniblocks you want to use of characters (you can use aniblocks in Carrara too, but Studio allows you to see what the aniblock motion would before applying it, whereas with aniblock importer for Carrara it doesn't do that).
2. Carrara has a future, not because it's being actively developed, but because it already does nearly everything. Supposedly there is still some dev going on for it, but probably not much really and it's taken forever to even hear reports. I expect the only thing that will be really developed is to have Genesis3 support (it currently doesn't, Genesis1 and 2 work in Carrara, but Genesis 3 doesn't, so if that's important to you that may be a dealbreaker). Certainly Carrara doesn't get anywhere near the development love that Studio does. Again, I don't see that as a problem, as particularly with the inclusion of the VWD dynamic cloth plugin, Carrara does everything I would ever want it to do already.
3. PhilW's training videos are superb, you can find them in the DAZ store under Infinite Skills, or you can go the less pricey route of buying a 1 month membership at infiniteskills dot com and watching them there. There's also the Carrara 7 manual (just google 'Carrara 7 manual' and you'll find it) that I use as a reference all the time. Mike Moir has some training videos on modeling in Carrara too, and there's a ton of training stuff over at CarraraCafe (even I did a series of video tutorials on creating and using realistic dyamic hair quickly and easily). There's a ton of stuff on youtube for nearly every topic, and Dartanbeck has a thread that compiles a ton of the training resources all together.
exactly what John Stark said.
there is also a carrara animators forum, not sure how busy it is
best to keep all eggs in one basket though :)
http://www.bond3d.byethost18.com/?i=1
Hello! Thank you for the feedback/info!
@Jonstark: Regarding the not needing to use DazStudio - well that's a potentially good thing lol. I like to keep my workflows as much in one app as possible - outside of using a 2D app for texture work, etc. But, there are some nice models and such in DazStudio, and I can see it being advantageous to create/tweak characters in there and bring them into Carrara as needed.
Regarding the Genesis 2 vs 3, honestly, I'm not even sure what the differences are, yet. I'm that new/unfamiliar to DazStudio, and it's all a bit confusing to me, yet, with all the options and variants. I look at the install manager and think "I have no idea what I should be installing here... What version do I get, and why?" I did grab the Genesis 3 stuff, as I assume it to be the "latest and greatest". But the Genesis 2 stuff looks fine to me, too (again, I'm not sure what the differences are; I have no point of reference, being a new user), so I could use that as well.
I did see a Carrara Pro package on the store that seems to include a bunch of characters and such as well.. so maybe that's a good option? Not sure.
Well, thanks for the info! It's heartening to hear/read that at least I don't have to worry about the software going "poof" any time soon lol. I've invested in programs before, only to have their developers stop support of them, and it's disappointing to see happen, particularly when the app is so nicely designed.
I'm glad somebody set the record straight there Jon
Welcome back BTW
Hi
Most models "from daz Studio" can be loaded directly into carrara,. and adjusted "tweaked" directly in Carrara,. you have the same list of parameter sliders to adjust the shape, pose, expression. and more.,.. so, if you have carrara,. there is no need to create/adjust your character in any other software,. then send that to Carrara.
Carrara is a modeller,. so it can be used to create something from nothing, or to adjust / edit an existing model,.
Carrara Pro,. comes bundles with a bunch of free Daz3D models,. example shaders, example scenes,. and example carrara models, (created in carrara)
the "trial download" version has all the tools and features of the Pro version. but with the 30 Day limit
If it's still on sale for 20 bucks,. get it,. it's a steal,.
+1
Man, if I could get it for $20, I'd own it already lol. It's currently $150 for the regular, and $290 or so for Pro. I have the Pro trial, and 30 days is more than enough time for me to learn the way around, do some tutorials, and maybe put together a smallish/simple project. Maybe I'll get lucky and they'll have one of those $20 sales in the interim.
Is there anything that's "must have" in the Pro version to make it worth the extra $140? Is it just more sample assets, or is there additional functionality/tools?
I like how active and responsive its community is, too! Very heartening. Nothing worse than posting into a program's official forums, and hearing echoes in return.
Thank you all for the info/advice/feedback!
Are you a member of the Platinum Club? That could make a big difference (and be worth joining just for that). Pro is showing for me at less than $40, but I get a bit extra off as a Published Artist.
From memory, Pro includes the Ocean primitive (and maybe a couple of others?) which aren't in the standard version, plus there are more tools in the Vertex Room for modelling, such as the edge tools which are very useful, so if you are thinking of doing much modelling, Pro is worth getting.
Carrara Pro is $45 if you are a platinium club member ($24 per quarter), making a $69 tab from which you can remove the 3x$6 coupons for Daz own products, making it a final $51.
Strangely enough, the regular (non pro) version is $105 with platinium.
Ahhh okay. I wasn't aware of the Platinum club.
So, just so I'm aware, the Platinum Club membership is $24 per quarter.
Is Carrara Pro a one-time $45 (or whatever it ends up being) fee? Or is that a quarterly fee as well?
I'll likely stick with the trial for a time, since I have pretty much the full 30 days, yet. Just want to make sure of the costs before I do the budgeting math stuff.
Thanks!
major sales this month and next. the sale price will prolly dip.
there's no obligation to keep paying the pc+ after the 3 months
Carrara is a one time purchase. It is not quartely.
The Latinum CLub will help you get models from the store at reduced rates, a real boost at the beginning. It really does pay for itself.
The Pro version is 64 bit, you definitely want the pro version and not standard (but ironically with platinum club Pro is less expensive anyway). Join Platinum club once to buy Carrara and drop it if you like after you own Carrara. Although if you don't already own a lot of content, the platinum club is pretty great at getting you discounts of other stuff from the store.
Genesis3 is the 'latest and greatest' yes, but not particularly superior, depending on your needs. I personally think Genesis1 is the best overall, and Genesis2 is pretty good too (so is Victoria/Michael 4, which is older content but still perfectly good). Genesis3 is the most recent, so all the stuff for it is more expensive, but that's not much of a plus :) earlier generations have more content anyway, and if some clothng item for Genesis 3 strikes your fancy you can always get a clone to transform the clothing into Genesis 1/2 clothing instead, and use it with those figures as well.
Excellent to know! And, yeah, $24 every three months is nothing. I saw something about being able to switch it to monthly, so $8 a month, which is extremely nice, too.
I'm working through some of the tutorials over on CarraraCafe, and I'm sitting here laughing at how cool some of these tools are. For the longest time, I wondered "why do they have these side grids in the perspective view? Now I get it. Spline modeling is just awesome; editing the profile lines to affect the actual model - brilliant! I also understand the point of Assemble versus Model modes now. Who thought modeling a simple post could be so enlightening?
I did run into a weird thing where for some reason, instead of moving the whole object around, it's only moving a "dot", which I'm guessing is the object's anchor point? I must have hit a wrong key or something. Ah.. It's the Hotpoint. I hit CapsLock it seems. Okay, got it!
But anyway, I'm having fun with this so far. Probably won't even wait for the full 30 days before buying it.
Thanks again!
I think you got the key point - Carrara makes 3D fun! (and powerful - I have made an animated short with Carrara which has shown at film festivals across the world).
Nice! Do you have that uploaded anywhere that I can check it out? I like to see what others have done with software when I'm starting to learn it.
Sorry, because of film festival rules (and probably the distribution hopes of the producers) it isn't publicly available. You can see a few of my demo videos on my YouTube channel here:
https://www.youtube.com/user/PhilW222/videos
Have a look at the one called Tribal Light in particular, plus any other which take your fancy. I also contributed the underwater sequence for the following music video, again all done in Carrara: The amimated section comes in around 4 mins but I would encourage you to watch the whole thing!
Awwww, that's a bummer. Understandable, though.
Cool work on the music video! I liked the song, too. That Gavin Harrison (one of my favorite drummers) and Steve Hackett perform on it makes it even better! The playing and sound made me think "this drummer plays a lot like Gavin Harrison". Then I saw someone mention his name in the comments, and looked it up to confirm it. Always cool to hear people playing outside their regular bands.
Very cool stuff otherwise! Really curious to see what kinda crazy stuff I'll come up with.
Thank you for sharing!
You are getting good input from all the right people, all of whom I agree with. I've been using Carrara for years, having switched from Poser when I realized Carrara could seamlessly handle Poser format content, of which there is a vast amount for sale at very affordable prices at various websites. I am not a modeler, so I rely on purchased content of which I have a vast amount (a couple of thousand here at DAZ alone). In addition, Carrara can handle large scenes (lots of lights, large area, many props/figures) much better than Poser. I mainly do short animations, and to answer your question about workflow, about 90% of my work is in the Assembly Room, setting up scenes with characters, props, lights, motion capture files for the characters, etc. The other ten percent is divided between the Texture and Render Rooms, while the Model and Storyboard Rooms are hardly used, the former only for a nip or tuck on a purchased item. The OpenGL preview of the action in the Assembly Room serves as an animation preview (on my fairly fast machine), so the Render Room is used mainly for final or near-final renders. Here is a short animation done in Carrara that some people like (there are more at the same YouTube location):
As you might guess, I vote for "Try it, you'll like it".
Steve - very nicely done, and a sweet story too!
Very nice! I remember being that excited on Christmas morning as a kid heheh. Never got a spaceship, though. Maybe I should have been more demanding? Hmmm...
You can also check out Sci Fi Funk as most of his are done in Carrara. he also has a series of Diary of a 3D animator.
https://www.youtube.com/user/SciFiFunk
All of the above Advice is very good.I highly recommend the Infinate Skills and the MMoir tutorials but wait until they are on sale as it makes it more affordable.
Most of the Carrara Published Artists who make content for the Carrara part of the DAZ store are on the Forum and are more than willing to assist with any issues you have. You have already been talking to a few of them and they are also always learning from everyone else.
This forum is very helpful and the Carrara challenges will help to improve you skills. take a look at the Carrara Challenge list thread to see what they are about.
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/45254/learning-tips-and-tricks-from-prior-carrara-challenge-wip-threads#latest
There is also this thread that may give you some other information.
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/109316/why-should-daz-studio-user-try-carrara#latest
One other thing that can help is to look at the scenes that come with Carrara and disect them to learn how things were done when they were created.
Phil -
Thanks. For once I put up a draft and got some feedback, all of which was helpful. That's a luxury not available in the 48 Hour Film contest, but I highly recommend it in general. As we always say in engineering, you cannot check your own work. Other eyes will see things you just won't see.
I second the motion. SciFi Funk has some great techniques (which he shares), e.g. crowd scenes like the below. There's an even better one with people and traffic in a street, but I can't find it.
Wow! Man, the stuff I'm seeing made with this program just keeps getting better. Very inspiring!
I did check out some of the work on his channel, but I did not see that video.
Here is the first in his tutorial to get lots of characters in Carrara.
Part 2
Oops... I missed this whole thread! Sorry, man!