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LineRender9000 [FAQ]

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  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,890

    Select a camera, copy (ctrl-C). Select the other camera, paste (ctrl-V)

    It's been a while since I've used LR9k, so as for the rest I don't really recall.

     

  • tkdroberttkdrobert Posts: 3,533
    Oso3D said:

    Select a camera, copy (ctrl-C). Select the other camera, paste (ctrl-V)

    It's been a while since I've used LR9k, so as for the rest I don't really recall.

     

    Thank you.  I didn't know you could do that.  Seems I learn something new about Daz everyday despite doing this for over a year now.

  • Sfariah DSfariah D Posts: 25,723
    Oso3D said:

    Select a camera, copy (ctrl-C). Select the other camera, paste (ctrl-V)

    It's been a while since I've used LR9k, so as for the rest I don't really recall.

     

    Wow!  I always created a new camera but with current camera properties.

  • tkdroberttkdrobert Posts: 3,533
    edited September 2018

    I was able to get LineRender to work last night thanks to that Google Doc.  It's all good.  Now I just have to play with the settings to get exactly what I want out of it. 

    Post edited by tkdrobert on
  • djigneodjigneo Posts: 283
    tkdrobert said:

    Also, I've never rendered using more than 1 camera.  How do you get them all to point that the same thing, the same way?

    The (included) LR9k AutoRender script does this automatically. It lets you schedule a series of renders and aligns the cameras for you automatically.

  • tkdroberttkdrobert Posts: 3,533
    djigneo said:
    tkdrobert said:

    Also, I've never rendered using more than 1 camera.  How do you get them all to point that the same thing, the same way?

    The (included) LR9k AutoRender script does this automatically. It lets you schedule a series of renders and aligns the cameras for you automatically.

    Yeah I figured that out,  Cool feature.

  • 3dOutlaw3dOutlaw Posts: 2,470

    I am working with LineRender, and have a question, if someone could take a look:

    When I render, i want to produce a pwtoon render, then the two outline renders. 

    1. yy__01_Main camera (this is my existing pwtoon camera)
    2. yy__02_Main camera
    3. yy__02_Main camera_lines
    4. yy__03_Fresnel reflected v
    5. yy__03_Fresnel reflected v_lines

    So, I do not want renders 2 and 4, as they add time, and I don't use them.  Any way to turn them off?

    (yy_ was the prefix, so just ignore that)

  • tkdroberttkdrobert Posts: 3,533
    3dOutlaw said:

    I am working with LineRender, and have a question, if someone could take a look:

    When I render, i want to produce a pwtoon render, then the two outline renders. 

    1. yy__01_Main camera (this is my existing pwtoon camera)
    2. yy__02_Main camera
    3. yy__02_Main camera_lines
    4. yy__03_Fresnel reflected v
    5. yy__03_Fresnel reflected v_lines

    So, I do not want renders 2 and 4, as they add time, and I don't use them.  Any way to turn them off?

    (yy_ was the prefix, so just ignore that)

    If you use the render script, you can remove the passes you don't want.

  • 3dOutlaw3dOutlaw Posts: 2,470

    I assume that is the Linerender Script you are talking about, that pops up the dialog?  If so, I have 3 lines in there: 

    • Main Camera (3delight) ...this is for the pxToon Render
    • Main Camera (Linerender)
    • Fresnel reflected v (Linerender)

    So, the bottom two each produce 2 renders as seen in the list of 5 renders above.  I was trying to inhibit #2 and 4.  If I remove the second one above, I lose both #2 and #3...

  • EightiesIsEnoughEightiesIsEnough Posts: 1,069

    I am wondering if there is an ability to update the plugin to allow for a dashed outline as if the characters were invisible as shown in some comic books?

  • Geminii23Geminii23 Posts: 1,327

    So I have been experimenting today with LineRender9000 but so far I am not seeing how I can achieve just a nice simple line render only.  The multiple files that are output are not really what I am after.  The composite file was interesting but the results weren't much better than something I could do in Photoshop in far less time.  Can anyone offer any insight on this?  I would really love to figure out a way to do nice line art to use as overlay for some comic book style experiments.

    Thanks!

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,890

    I would use Fresnel ‘colorid’, and I THINK shadow render (it’s been a while), use the script and remove the other options.

    You will get clean lines based on colorid (which you will have to set), and a shadow render which can be processed to get whatever shadow sketch style you want.

  • Geminii23Geminii23 Posts: 1,327
    Oso3D said:

    I would use Fresnel ‘colorid’, and I THINK shadow render (it’s been a while), use the script and remove the other options.

    You will get clean lines based on colorid (which you will have to set), and a shadow render which can be processed to get whatever shadow sketch style you want.

    Hi Oso3D.  Thanks for that quick response.  I was reading through the documentation, but it isn't clear to me how I am supposed to set this.  Using the Surface Selection tool on my figure, I can see that there is a setting called LR9k ColorID.  On the character they all are set to white (255) and on the clothing they vary from white to other greys.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,890

    Right, on the character you basically click on the colorID and set it to... whatever.

    You can do stuff like make all the skin textures the same colorID so it's treated as one thing, or, if you want, separate it out.

    Like, do you want lips to be outlined or not? Make them different colorIDs or same.

    I basically copied a similar approach to this for my Oso Toon kit, but with material IDs (and requiring a post pass to convert colors to lines)

     

  • Geminii23Geminii23 Posts: 1,327
    Oso3D said:

    Right, on the character you basically click on the colorID and set it to... whatever.

    You can do stuff like make all the skin textures the same colorID so it's treated as one thing, or, if you want, separate it out.

    Like, do you want lips to be outlined or not? Make them different colorIDs or same.

    I basically copied a similar approach to this for my Oso Toon kit, but with material IDs (and requiring a post pass to convert colors to lines)

     

    Ok.  Now I am going to need to try out yours.  Funny, I have purchased pretty much every single kit I could.  LineRender, Visual Style, Manga Style, Oso Toon, Sketchy. I can't seem to figure out how to use any of them.  Hahahahah

  • 3dOutlaw3dOutlaw Posts: 2,470

    Of the ones you mention there, I've had most luck with Visual Style Shaders (using the free geometry shell outline shader), and then PWToon, which was not in your list.  If you got an example of the style you are after, maybe we can recommend something or an approach?  I got a nice line from Linerender, but the quality versus render time, etc...versus PWToon...I couldn't justify that it was worth the extra render time.  (though it was better)

  • Geminii23Geminii23 Posts: 1,327
    edited January 2019
    3dOutlaw said:

    Of the ones you mention there, I've had most luck with Visual Style Shaders (using the free geometry shell outline shader), and then PWToon, which was not in your list.  If you got an example of the style you are after, maybe we can recommend something or an approach?  I got a nice line from Linerender, but the quality versus render time, etc...versus PWToon...I couldn't justify that it was worth the extra render time.  (though it was better)

    Oh, yes I did forget to mention that one and of course...I have it as well.  LOL.  I am on a Mac Pro 8-Core which can't compete at all for Daz rendering.  So saving time would be awesome.  iRay takes forever + a day to render just about anything.  3DL does much better.  So I will need to add PWT into my experimentation.

    As far as look goes, I guess I would default to some of the sample images that made me buy any of these plugins in the first place.  First we have the Sketchy one here.

    https://www.daz3d.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/0/2/02-sketchy---toon-edge-and-art-style-shaders-for-iray-daz3d.jpg

    With the LR9K, I really liked this look:

    https://www.daz3d.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/0/2/02-linerender9000-daz3d.jpg

    PWT would probably be this one:

    https://www.daz3d.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/p/w/pwtoon-0.jpg

    Hopefully this helps.  I am not opposed to using Photoshop and doing some layer compositing, but it would be nice if I could achieve some line work inside of DAZ first to emulate a traditional comic ink outline first.  And I am also looking at Visual Style Shader to see about exporting flat color images (like 2D) right out of DAZ as another layer to experiment with.

    Thanks!

     

    Post edited by Geminii23 on
  • 3dOutlaw3dOutlaw Posts: 2,470

    For a pretty basic PWToon, this was very easy and fast render.  

    tkdrobert did a great combined image using three of them here:  https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/4028391/#Comment_4028391

    This is the best thread for VSS, that has the outline freebei link at the start as well, imo:  https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/10961/manga-style-visual-style-topic-update-sept-23rd-2017-fixed-dropbox-links-commercial/p14

    Linerender pass combined with VSS would probably look great!  Now I am wondering if you can do this at once...may try it with linerender or PWToon for lines and VSS for colors.

  • Geminii23Geminii23 Posts: 1,327
    3dOutlaw said:

    For a pretty basic PWToon, this was very easy and fast render.  

    tkdrobert did a great combined image using three of them here:  https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/4028391/#Comment_4028391

    This is the best thread for VSS, that has the outline freebei link at the start as well, imo:  https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/10961/manga-style-visual-style-topic-update-sept-23rd-2017-fixed-dropbox-links-commercial/p14

    Linerender pass combined with VSS would probably look great!  Now I am wondering if you can do this at once...may try it with linerender or PWToon for lines and VSS for colors.

    Very nice!  Oh yeah I love tkrobert's images.  I will check out that other thread.

  • ObsidianpoetObsidianpoet Posts: 95

    I bought this the other day and I can't seem to get it to work to do what I want.  I am trying to get only a black-and-white picture, like shown in the examples.  I want to use these with my renders to make a coloring sheet of some of my characters. I'm following the enclosed manual, but it doesn't really tell me how to achieve that look.   Is there a visual tutorial or another thread where this is discussed step by step?  I bought it based on the examples on the store page such as the woman with the book and the woman with the staff.  Those are the kinds of renders I need to make, I just can't figure out how to do it.   Any help is appreciated.  Thanks!   

  • TheNathanParableTheNathanParable Posts: 984
    Shannon McRoberts (obsidianpoet) said:

    I bought this the other day and I can't seem to get it to work to do what I want.  I am trying to get only a black-and-white picture, like shown in the examples.  I want to use these with my renders to make a coloring sheet of some of my characters. I'm following the enclosed manual, but it doesn't really tell me how to achieve that look.   Is there a visual tutorial or another thread where this is discussed step by step?  I bought it based on the examples on the store page such as the woman with the book and the woman with the staff.  Those are the kinds of renders I need to make, I just can't figure out how to do it.   Any help is appreciated.  Thanks!   

    If you use the included scripted renderer, basically what happens is that Daz will render your scene exactly how the camera sees it, generates the outlines, and then saves the outlines to a seperate image file (at the filepath you set in the renderer). You won't see those outlines within Daz Studio. The actual render window won't show these. They've been saved outside of Daz (this really confused me at first, as I hadn't used scripted renderers before). Basically the idea is that you'd do at least two renders (a regular render, then a LR9000 render) and then combine the two in Photoshop/Gimp/Krita/etc.

    If you just want black and white outlines, follow the manual to set up the outlines as you want. In the scripted renderer, make sure the outline colour is set to black and the image type is set to PNG. If done right, you should end up with a PNG file with black outlines on a transparent background. Usually i'd then take those outlines and combine them with other renders (you can check my gallery for some toony examples), but in your case you'd just want to add a white background underneath the black outlines.

  • djigneodjigneo Posts: 283

    Also worth mentioning that there is a double-click settings option for the black and white style under Scripts > LineRender9000 > Settings presets > LR9K Black & White

    After loading that, launch Scripts > LineRender9000 > LR9k AutoRender, set the output filename, click Render! and see if that gets you close.

  • burginburgin Posts: 18

    Hello, I just bought LineRender9000 and am beginning to get the hang of it, but I'm still unable to get the result you show in the attached image.

    Could you please tell me how you achieved this?  Many thanks.

     

    Screen Shot 2019-10-17 at 10.50.59.png
    227 x 291 - 68K
  • tkdroberttkdrobert Posts: 3,533
    edited October 2019
    burgin said:

    Hello, I just bought LineRender9000 and am beginning to get the hang of it, but I'm still unable to get the result you show in the attached image.

    Could you please tell me how you achieved this?  Many thanks.

     

    What cemeras are your using?  Are you using the render script?  To get that result, I would be using Edge, Frensel, and Shadow Opancy cameras (I'm not home, so I appologize if the names are off) set to 3Delight-LineRender9000.  I usually render in high-res, so I set my light thinkness to 4.0 and that other setting to .20.  I'm obviously not the creater, but I use LineRender alot.  LineRender is not perfect so you have to play with the settings.  After I composite the layers in Photoshop or Clip Paint Studio, I usually clean up the lines in one of those programs.     

     

    My latest using LineRender9000

    Post edited by tkdrobert on
  • burginburgin Posts: 18

    tkdrobert

    Many thanks for your reply. « What cemeras are your using?  Are you using the render script?  To get that result, I would be using Edge, Frensel, and Shadow Opancy cameras (I'm not home, so I appologize if the names are off) set to 3Delight-LineRender9000. » See attached screenshot. The render output is six files (two for each camera) that look nothing like the result I'm after, and I can't see how combining them in PS would make any difference.

    What I am not doing?

     

     

    Screenshot 2019-10-17 at 16.48.50.png
    1338 x 1388 - 137K
  • tkdroberttkdrobert Posts: 3,533
    edited October 2019
    tkdrobert said:
    burgin said:

    Hello, I just bought LineRender9000 and am beginning to get the hang of it, but I'm still unable to get the result you show in the attached image.

    Could you please tell me how you achieved this?  Many thanks.

     

    What cemeras are your using?  Are you using the render script?  To get that result, I would be using Edge, Frensel, and Shadow Opancy cameras (I'm not home, so I appologize if the names are off) set to 3Delight-LineRender9000.  I usually render in high-res, so I set my light thinkness to 4.0 and that other setting to .20.  I'm obviously not the creater, but I use LineRender alot.  LineRender is not perfect so you have to play with the settings.  After I composite the layers in Photoshop or Clip Paint Studio, I usually clean up the lines in one of those programs.     

     

    burgin said:

    tkdrobert

    Many thanks for your reply. « What cemeras are your using?  Are you using the render script?  To get that result, I would be using Edge, Frensel, and Shadow Opancy cameras (I'm not home, so I appologize if the names are off) set to 3Delight-LineRender9000. » See attached screenshot. The render output is six files (two for each camera) that look nothing like the result I'm after, and I can't see how combining them in PS would make any difference.

    What I am not doing?

     

     

    • Set your cameras to 3delight>LineRender9000 instead of Scripted 3Delight>LineRender9000.
    • Add another Shadow Opacity cam and set it as 3Delight.  You can this with Frensel as well.  Try it and see if those layers interest you at all.
    • Expirement with the line width.  You might have it set to low depending on the resolution. 
    • In Photoshop, create a layer that is solid white, then "copy special-->copy in place" each image LineRender created as a seperate layer.
    • Compositing the layers in Photshop, GIMP, or some other tool is the key to getting good results.

    It would be helpful if I could see your composited results, then I might be able to help better.  Also, it's possible that the image example you posted was created using both PwToon and LineRender9000.  They can compliment each other.  Pwtoon has a camera for creating black and white like that.  Only the PA can answer that one for sure.

    Here is another example closer to what you want:

    MvK lineart by tkdrobert

    Post edited by tkdrobert on
  • burginburgin Posts: 18

    « Set your cameras to 3delight>LineRender9000 instead of Scripted 3Delight>LineRender9000. »

    In Render Settings: if I select Scripted 3Delight as the Engine, I can select a Render Script. But when I switch the engine to 3Delight, the Render Script option disappears.

    How do I get 3Delight>LineRender9000 ?

    Thanks again !

     

  • burginburgin Posts: 18

    PS : « it's possible that the image example you posted was created using both PwToon and LineRender9000.  They can compliment each other »

    Oso3D writes: « The problem with PWToon and most similar systems is that they rely on Normals to define an outline. But if you have a very shallow or flat surface that’s angled almost perpendicular to the camera, this causes ‘bleed’ of the lines and the surface often fills in. LineRender has the option to base drawing lines on an ID, which results in a much more reliable line. »

    I'm making architectural images – flat surfaces with only rarely a figure – do you think it's worth my while to buy pwToon ?

    BTW - I like your image ! How did you arrive at that ??

     

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,890
    edited October 2019

    Personally I think LineRender9000 would be much more useful for architectural stuff.

    I think fresnel mode and color Id will help for making really clean lines.

    Post edited by Oso3D on
  • burginburgin Posts: 18

    PPS - I'm getting somewhere now, by trying different camera, and then compositing the line files only in PS

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