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Gen3 Rigging Adjustment Problems

TamunaTamuna Posts: 82
in Technical Help (nuts n bolts)

I'm sorry if this toppic has already been discussed, I couldn't find it.

I've created a few custom face morphs for Genesis 3 female - eye space, size, pull up and down etc. - but I can't adjust the rigging right. Initially the bones do change their position correctly, but after I use ERC freeze, adjusting the new morph dial makes some bones go crazy, they rotate all over the place. Specifically the bones that seem to be controlling eyelid movements and squinting are causing such problems. I've searched for tutorials, but they're no help. They're all for G2, and G2 skeleton doesn't have those bones that are causing problems here. Has anyone had this problem?

Comments

  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526
    edited October 2016

    I had experienced it, then it should happen when you use auto adjust rigging to the shape. you may not notice, when you apply the option, but it already rotated or flip , usually all eyelids nodes. (I believe it is a kind of bug)

    to remove this problem, I  extrude exclude face rigs (those hidden for posing rigs) , by check option, then use "adust rigging to the shape" then set another part rigs first.

    after that, use same option for the face rigs with only check about face bones, but without "rotation".

    though it may still  change some node end points strange  way, but you can adjust it manually by joint editor.

    after check all rigs correctly fit current shape, then use ERC freeze.

     

    If you already use ERC freeze,, one way is manually removed those face rigs ERC rotation only.

    I believe, those tiny face rigs most case , no need to change rig  rotation to fit current morphed face..

    without change rotation value of rigging,  they work, when I roate rigs with weight map,to change face expression.

    Post edited by kitakoredaz on
  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526
    edited October 2016

    If you had already ERC freezed,, may need only remove "orientaion" ERC around eye lids rigs

     

    1. in parameter tab, go to edit mode. then select the morph which you making.

    2  r-click the morph parameter >Show in proerty hieraalchy.   it open property hileralchy pane, then auto-select your morph .

    3. Open sub-component.1.stage ,  then serch nodes from right pane. about eyelids rigs. (r and left) 

    4 select those,,, , ERC[DeltaAdd]: X,(Y,Z)orientation   of those Eyelids nodes  by click those ERC with shift,,,  then "remove selected" 

    in my pic I already removed only about those OrientationERC about Eyelids bones, when I made this face morph. then there is no orientatioin ,,,

     

    I usually  not use "rotation" (set delta for Orientation) at all,   about thoes eyelids face rigs,,  when adjust rigs to the shape.

    around jaws may only need to apply rotaiton(orientation) I think.

    (about body morphs, you may need to set rotation, or when you check bone,  fingurs nodes really ugly arranged) 

    orientation.PNG
    1075 x 971 - 621K
    Post edited by kitakoredaz on
  • TamunaTamuna Posts: 82

    Thanks for replying. I didn't quite understand everything, I think. I tried following your steps, but it's not what I'm looking for. It returns the bones as they were originally and then they stay unaffected, but I want them moving, just not moving out of control. I've tried all sorts of combinations of settings, but nothing's working for me. :( I guess the only thing I have left to do is to NOT adjust those bones at all, but then face poses (blinking etc.) don' work well with them.

  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526
    edited October 2016

    Unfortunaetly , there is no  "perfect setting"  which can "adjust all bones to the morphed shape , at once."   then you may feel difficulity..indecision

     

    but you have already found, some bones do not locate  correclty with "rotation" on. (mostly around eyes rigs for expression)  that means another bone almost work well with the setting.. 

    then  if you apply "adjust rigging to the shape" without rotation (translation only) ,, about all face  rigs , you may see different bones locate strange,,  but this time,,

    most of  face rigs locate correctly  ,without orient X, Y, Z each nodes.   So what we can do,?  cool

     

    1  apply "adjust rigging to the shape"  about face rigs without "eyerlids rigs" you can choose rigs by checking nodes ,.. 

    f you do not check,, ,, those eyelids  rigs exclude from auto adjust process,, then no not change . (just stay as same as before,, no translation,)

     then keep first  arrange if it work well,, if some nodes still move strange place, (it may different aboout your morph target shape.)

    memorize those  rigs name,, then  just Undo .   , (of course, next time, you exclude those rigs with eyelids rigs)

     

    2 re-apply "adjust rigging to the shape" but this time without rotation,, , and only abbut rigs which you have not selected.

    3  if there were still some nodes, which can not locate and rotate correctly,,    manually adjust location. (center point, and end point),  then arrange all face nodes..    

     

    then,,,  my suggested way,, (to remove nodes ERC only about rotation,, only  about the problem nodes) never reset  all.  sad

    and after  you remove some orientation  ERC of the morph,  did you save and overwite morph?

     if you did not save,, nothing change.. next time when you load those morph (with ERC), then it still keep all ERC, then eyelids should rotate as same as before...  

    But if you already corrupted somehow,, you can try again from scratch. everytime you want,

     

    I do not believe,, there is user  who could learn  adjust rigs process to make face morph, without try and erroer.

    you must find good option, for each step,, (but I say again,,  there is no perfect setting,,  whici offer us "one click, then done  all,"

    We  need gradually reach goal with using different  option. + manuall joint edit. 　like Okarin of steins;gate

    Though ,,I really hope, , a DAZ  improve current "adjust rigging to the shape"  seriously. indecision

    Post edited by kitakoredaz on
  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,581
    edited October 2016

    For adjusting rigs in the face, I would do certain parts in different passes. The eye should be done separately as well as the eyelashes and possibly ears, since the bones are in different orientations than the rest of the face. Then when you are finished do the ERC freeze.

    For example, I would adjust rigging for the left and right eye in both the left and right panes, click OK. Then select adjust rigging to shape and select the eyelash bones and the head region on the right pane, then click ok.Then for the main face i would select all the bones in the face except for the eyes and eyelashes. Then I would do an ERC freeze to lock those bones in place.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    Male-M3dia said:

    For adjusting rigs in the face, I would do certain parts in different passes.

    It's more work to do it that way, but it is the only way to ensure that it gets done without messing up the whole rig.  One thing that does make it a bit easier...in the Adjust Rigging to Shape box, select Hip and right click, then scroll down to Uncheck > Uncheck All.  Then just scroll down and select the ones you need.

  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526
    edited October 2016

    The problem is, mostly about Gen3 facial rigs around eye.   it never happen about gen2 or gen2,, because,, only genesis3 have those facial rigs.

    there are group about upper  and bottom , eylids rigs. then  about under eyelids rigs are orientate z  180 alerady.. 

    (I can not see  any practical meanig, to set under eye rigs like that) 

     

     even though you select only about r eye (influenced node)  , or l eye, those rotation often return 180 to around 0,  when you adjust rigging to the shape.

    then when you add morph,  those rigs rotate with Z axis.    maybe there are still some nodes,,  z orientated 180 around,, (without clear reason)    or,, about x, y. such way. then when adjust rigts to the shape,, they turn oposit. 

     

    Post edited by kitakoredaz on
  • TamunaTamuna Posts: 82
    kitakoredaz said:

    The problem is, mostly about Gen3 facial rigs around eye.   it never happen about gen2 or gen2,, because,, only genesis3 have those facial rigs.

    there are group about upper  and bottom , eylids rigs. then  about under eyelids rigs are orientate z  180 alerady.. 

    (I can not see  any practical meanig, to set under eye rigs like that) 

     

     even though you select only about r eye (influenced node)  , or l eye, those rotation often return 180 to around 0,  when you adjust rigging to the shape.

    then when you add morph,  those rigs rotate with Z axis.    maybe there are still some nodes,,  z orientated 180 around,, (without clear reason)    or,, about x, y. such way. then when adjust rigts to the shape,, they turn oposit. 

     

    That's pretty much it. I would also add that after fiddling with it for a while I've spotted which ones get messed up. Basically, there are eight bones around each eye: inner, upper inner, upper, upper outer, outer, lower inner, lower and lower outer. Out of these the upper trio have proper behavior after ERC freeze, other prefer to perform pirouettes every time I move the dial. I've only managed to deal with them by making manual adjustments.

  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526

    To said more detail, about each facial rigs, may beyond my English skill,,  

    But about those eyelids rigs, I recommend, only , remove Z orientation ERC ,, if you hope to  keep X, Y, orientation.. (yes it may help sometime to arrange well with current face mesh,,

    I said, there is almost no meaning add ERC about orientation Z about those facial rigs.

    to be frankly said,, those eye lids arrange ment is something srange at start point,,  all eye rids node ,center point start almost same positon, then they arrange very narrow, 

    it cause real difficulity when I select nodes in the 3d view, as I like, ,,, maybe DAZ think,, we use parameter with scene tab, or use expression  which daz sell, but the strong point of facial rigs

    is ,,User can easy tweak detail by select and move bone t, who arrange eye lids rigs like that,  if you plan pose manually ??  (and daz do not  offer posing sheet still)

    then we many buy  expression morph product .

     

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,581
    Tamuna said:
    kitakoredaz said:

    The problem is, mostly about Gen3 facial rigs around eye.   it never happen about gen2 or gen2,, because,, only genesis3 have those facial rigs.

    there are group about upper  and bottom , eylids rigs. then  about under eyelids rigs are orientate z  180 alerady.. 

    (I can not see  any practical meanig, to set under eye rigs like that) 

     

     even though you select only about r eye (influenced node)  , or l eye, those rotation often return 180 to around 0,  when you adjust rigging to the shape.

    then when you add morph,  those rigs rotate with Z axis.    maybe there are still some nodes,,  z orientated 180 around,, (without clear reason)    or,, about x, y. such way. then when adjust rigts to the shape,, they turn oposit. 

     

    That's pretty much it. I would also add that after fiddling with it for a while I've spotted which ones get messed up. Basically, there are eight bones around each eye: inner, upper inner, upper, upper outer, outer, lower inner, lower and lower outer. Out of these the upper trio have proper behavior after ERC freeze, other prefer to perform pirouettes every time I move the dial. I've only managed to deal with them by making manual adjustments.

    Are you adjusting the eyelid bones separately? If you are adjusting those rigs with other facial bones, they are going to flip when adjusted. That's why I mentioned to do the facial bones in passes.

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