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Refraction color map not working properly?

Doodle DesignsDoodle Designs Posts: 34
in Technical Help (nuts n bolts)

I've developed a product that imitates glass block. I wanted to use a color map in the refraction color channel to give the glass its color, but it doesn't work.

Here's the results when there is no map - the refraction color is set to a light blue color in the lower row.

It's exactly what I wanted, except that I wanted to use a color map with a texture filled with the same color because I have solid-color textures that I use in the diffuse color channel for other props in the product, so that everything is color-coordinated. However, this is what it looks like when I try to use a map in the refraction color.

Not only does the color not appear transparent any more, but the displacement map seems to be ignored. The displacement map is what gives the glass its bumpiness.

This can't be right.

Anyone know if there's a known bug with refraction maps?

Comments

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001

    First which shading 'model' are you using...Metalicity, Glossiness or Weighted?

    Which glass are you using...solid or thin?

    How are the glass blocks modelled?

    If they are modelled with actual thickness, you should probably be using Glass-solid and transmission color/distance.   Thin glass on modelled thickness gives odd results (and the other way around, too).

    Refraction color is used to mimic that property in single poly (no volume) glass...

    The displacement map IS being used, you can notice it in the lower right hand corner...the corner of that block is sticking out a little. 

    Are you using both a color and a map?  That can give odd results, too...if using a map, to set a solid color, try using pure white in the color slot.

  • Doodle DesignsDoodle Designs Posts: 34

    The glass blocks are just single-facet rectangular cubes (six sides = 6 facets), except the the top and edge blocks, which are beveled.

    I'm not familiar with glass solid or transmission color/distance. Are you talking about iRay? I'm not using iRay - I'm using the 3Delight renderer.

    Okay, I can see now that displacement is being used. Must be the lighting that makes it look flat.

    I'm getting the results I want, I just wanted to know why using a color map doesn't work in refraction.

    When I used the map above in the second image, the refraction color is set to white.

    No map

    Map

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001

    Yeah, the Iray shader....

    Which 3DL shader are you using?

    Since they are cubes, a volumetric glass should be used, if available.  None of the standard 3DL shaders will do 'thick' glass.  Depending on which shader you are using, the Refraction color will behave slightly (or more than slightly) differently.   

  • Doodle DesignsDoodle Designs Posts: 34

    I'm using Plastic (Glossy) although just plastic works too.

    I don't know anything about a volumetric glass shader either. That's not what I'm asking.

    As I said, the results are exactly what I want - it looks like glass block. I just want to know why using a color map gives different results than when using no map and the color set.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001

    Because Omnifreaker UberSurface and AoA shaders each handle refraction a bit differently than the Daz Default (which is what you are using).  In order to figure out if it's a bug or by design I need to know what is being used.

    As to why a volume/thick glass matters, using the wrong one will do things like make the glass render black..or too dark.

    And, yes, I can confirm that with a map in the Refraction color slot, the map overrides refraction...period.  What I don't know at this point is if that is by design or a bug.

  • Doodle DesignsDoodle Designs Posts: 34

    I can't imagine that it's by design - it makes no sense. Looking at the results shows that.

    Unless of courseit's a deliberate bug so that people won't use it. For some time I've wanted to try a rainbow map in there and see what cool results that would give - rather than just using a single color. Maybe 3DL can't handle something like that, so they fixed it so that no one would try it.

    But, man oh man, how cool would it be to have a rainbow glass block? cool

  • Doodle DesignsDoodle Designs Posts: 34

    BTW - The product has already been through beta-testing so I don't plan on changing anything. I'm just curious about why this issue is happening. And cause I'm mad I have a baker's dozen color choices in my product, but I can't offer customers rainbow glass blocks. wink

    The glass block effect works, as-is, so I see no reason to change anything.

    It's especially apparent when seen animated. (Except YouTube RUINED the quality of my video).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv8giqz79Eg

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited November 2016

    3DL can handle it...whether or not the shader can is another question. 

    Without knowing the exact code, it's hard to say what's up with the refraction color slot.

    After spending some time with it...I think it's a bug.

    It seems that plugging a map in ignores any color info and multiplies the map by the IOR. 

    And succes...

    It's using the wrong map type...and missing the trace function on the refraction.  So...as it stands, a map in the color slot will never work,  I've got a Shader Mixer 'fixed' version that swaps the map and adds the trace...

    refractionmap.png
    800 x 1000 - 1M
    Post edited by mjc1016 on
  • Doodle DesignsDoodle Designs Posts: 34

    Sooooooo... you gonna share? wink

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001

    Not yet...I'm trying a couple of things...like tiling and I'm encountering problems (I'm not sure if it's the map I'm using or what).  I should have something a little more solid in a day or two.

  • Doodle DesignsDoodle Designs Posts: 34

    I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

    *dreams of rainbow-colored glass block*

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