what makes the Mona Lisa smile so special?
Mistara
Posts: 38,675
basically, how to make realistic facial expressions?
it's soo hard.
the perfect scene just falls apart if their expression doesn't rock.
a smile doesn't move just the lips - cheeks ball, eyes crinkle
how many billions of facial muscles are there? doh
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I don't know... I never got the big deal about her smile... till I heard it pointed out that she is supposed to be smiling I never really noticed it... its so subtile, like she quietly passed gas and nobody noticed and she is more relieved than happy... she seems more... "not uncomfortable" than smiling.
reading the wiki on it. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mona_Lisa
i need the artsy things spelled out for me, i like the painting but don't understand why.
it says : The woman appears alive to an unusual measure, which Leonardo achieved by his new method not to draw the outlines, "mainly in two features: the corners of the mouth, and the corners of the eyes"
the background looks like she's sitting in front of another painting.
Animators use mirrors to study their own expressions to add realism to their characters. We can read really subtle muscle movements in the face, which is probably why so many people are fascinated by the Mona Lisa. You need to use facial morphs other than just expression morphs to really capture an emotion.
Agreed. Custom sculpted morphs is the best option. This vendor does it and you can see the difference it brings to the character.
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=348252
You can do one whole hell of a lot with the Head Pose Controls in Genesis... IMHO... not everything, but quite a bit.
I don't know why, but I prefer converted expressions from M4 and V4 over genesis expressions. There is something I do not like about genesis expressions. Will let you know when I figure it out LOL.
That's nice, wancow. She's flirting a bit and about to smile. I wouldn't trust her though, lol.
right? that's what i'm trying to say.
we see an expression looks fake or toonish, but how to figure out exactly what it needs to fix it?
Ignore
The reality is that in real life everybody's facial muscles are different with regard to facial shape which gives them their unique looks and expressions. With these expression presets, you are applying a generic expression so that's why there is a level of unrealism because they are not specifically designed for that face shape. A good example of this is when you buy a celeb look alike character set. They look very much like the celeb at default state until you apply an expression. Why? Because you are applying a generic expression that isn't designed for that face.
I"m sure that's true... And I'd REELY like to figure out how to add those to the Pose controls after converting them...
Then you're saying to get facial expressions for, say, a Jack Nicholson look-alike model, expressions that truly look like Jack, the only way is to get photographs of Jack himself, doing all those different expressions? (I know that sentence was crap - and English is my only language :) )
Observation is key.
Then you're saying to get facial expressions for, say, a Jack Nicholson look-alike model, expressions that truly look like Jack, the only way is to get photographs of Jack himself, doing all those different expressions? (I know that sentence was crap - and English is my only language :) )
In a nutshell yes. This vendor does that. Go through the promo images of the characters.
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=348252
Each expression is custom made for the figure it was designed for.
To me the best thing is to go for subtle expressions. People (adults anyway) are rarely wildly overjoyed or angry or whatever. Usually they're trying to keep things down, not cause too much fuss. Kids are more open because they don't have to play by the same rules.
This set has some good subtle expressions:
http://www.daz3d.com/shop/100-essential-emotions-for-v4
would be nice to see expressions made for male genesis. Many of the expressions available for genesis are rather feminine. I think that adds to the pool of Unrealism to genesis. Would be great to see facial muscles sliders too, individual ones. What really grinds my gears with the Gn expressions is that many of them do something wrong to the eyes... makes them look off. The upper eyelid just doesn't look right. It also annoys me when expressions are NOT sliders.
The all-in-one expression sliders are good in small amounts when mixed with other single modifying sliders, but by themselves they are a little too fake looking.
No facial expression is the same on both sides of the face while a dial that adjusts both sides of the face is easier to use you can still make minor adjustments with the dials that control one side or the other.
Remember that sliders have negative values as well, don't' be afraid to use them.
In a nutshell yes. This vendor does that. Go through the promo images of the characters.
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=348252
Each expression is custom made for the figure it was designed for.
Especially the Stallone and Will Smith morphs...Bruce Willis is pretty good, too (it's him, from his days on Moonlighting...not really his current stuff, but younger).
A lot of the time stock expressions just don't seem to look right to me, they always seem over-exaggerated and lack the subtlety of real world emotion. Getting the expression just right has been, for me at least, a case of either fiddling with sliders for ages or in some cases actually going in and manually adding my own morphs. I would dearly love to see some more subtle expressions available on the market for Genesis, as I'm sure others would as well.
Less is more :)
Frankly, I think we can work with the morphs we have, and perhaps add some from V4 to get most if not all of what we need... What I would very much like to see is a tutorial on how to make controller sliders, so we can add to the Face Pose Controls...
In Poser you can use the morph tool on the face to change the expression. You can import your render to Photoshop and liquify it and change the expression. You can import the figure into Sculptris and do all kinds of things to it. (don't ask me how)
The "Mona Lisa smile" was a marketing gimick invented by art exhibors to instill a sense of mystery into the painting.
Actually, I did find something shortly after posting that in the Daz store which I made a point to buy. There's a bundle which has a very good range of subtle smiles and other expressions which work really well straight out of the box. If you want to check it out yourself, its the moods bundle.
http://www.daz3d.com/shop/animations-poses/expressions/moods-bundle-expressions-for-genesis
Those look nice... but I still want to make my own dials...
The DAZ figures have never been good at smiling, at least not if you want them to show their teeth, which don't look very good IMO (been looking in vain for some good V4 teeth morphs). I guess that's why you rarely see them smile that way.
The SM figures are much better in that respect, IMO. And RDNA has made some very good face morhps for them.
I agree there are no flexible teeth morphs for V4. Also Any figure can get a beautiful smile, just depends what packages are available for that particular figure. Here is Genesis with a custom smile morph I made with one or two morphs from my upcoming Dental plan product.
V4, not genesis, and a quick tyr out render, but I thought I got quite a sbtle expression going on here
Here's another 2p's worth. A smile made with the Genesis face morphs and raw expressions. I don't have the expressions pack. A little assymetry thrown in to make her more real.
Yes, assymetry does add to the look. I mean our faces aren't even symmetrical. Neither are our smiles.
One of the problems is that people have become so used to near-symmetrical faces through film, TV and ad choices that it shapes the way we see the world. But the best photos by the top photojournalists go after character and that's never "perfect". I know that I always smile slightly to one side as I can feel the muscles pull that way.