BVH problem

Pjotter

I am trying to import a walk cycle and others from BVH. I can do that, but whatever I do, the forward motion (Y) from the hip is always way off. It goes always much faster as it should be, so a lot of foot sliding. I have this with any BVH source, including the biovision files. Also Aniblocks in DS > BVH or as export aniblocks. In DS everything looks perfect, but after export BVH > import in Carrara, it is way off. I have tried every import option I think. And if I run any BVH in BVHacker, all looks fine too. If I import a BVH with a new skeleton, this one is fine. Is Carrara messing up things, or am I missing something.

I have had this problem for many years. Any ideas for solving this, besides editing the import errors all the time. I am stuck.

ProPose

I'm no expert, but I find that not all bvh files are created equal.  I have pretty good results with the CMU_Daz version of bvh files. They do work better in Daz, which I then convert to aniblocks and then import those into Carrara.  I use Daz Studio 3.1 and Carrara 8.1.0.153 for the conversions.  Having said that, I still need to "fix" things in Carrara to get them the way I want.

 

edit to add;

SciFi Funk has a bunch of u-tube vids that can explain the proceedure better than I.

Pjotter

That is true, but if I import a BVH file to a Genesis figure in DS, it looks fine. But if I import the same BVH file to the same Genesis figure in Carrara, the forward motion (Y) is way off.

argus1000

Pjotter said:

That is true, but if I import a BVH file to a Genesis figure in DS, it looks fine. But if I import the same BVH file to the same Genesis figure in Carrara, the forward motion (Y) is way off.

That is why I never import a BVH directly into Carrara. (Although there might be a way if you use a program beforehand with the name 'dance" in it, as posted here). I always import into Daz Studio, do my primary editing there (with "Animate") and import the file (with the figure) as a DUF into Carrara. Then you can make a NLA clip out of it and discard the figure if you wish.

ProPose

This is probably not going to help you at all......but, when using Genesis 1 or 2 I do all my conversions in 3dxchange and iClone.  I export a bvh from 3DX 6 into Daz Studio 4.7 and save as a pose preset(animated).  Open that in Carrara 8.5 and that works fairly well for me. I know, and long and expensive way to get things done.

ProPose

If it looks good in Daz, try saving it as a pose preset duf file like Argus1000 said, and load that into carrara.

WendyLuvsCatz

with iClone bvh exports at least, I found I can load them on figures in Carrara if I also import them as a separate skeleton and make the DAZ figure's hip track it's hip.

Not tried this with others yet.

3DAGE

why convert aniblocks to BVH,. 

Create your animation in DS using aniblocks,. (Bake to studio keys) ...save DS scene,. Open the DS scene (duf) into Carrara.

as Argus suggests,.

Pjotter

DUF did the trick. Now it looks good. I have tried DUF, but there was no animation, only a pose. So I gave up on this, because I thought it wasn't possible. But I forgot to bake the Aniblocks. It also works for import BVH in DS and export as DUF. Now I can move forwards again (without foot sliding). Thanks all!

wgdjohn

Any walk etc cycles I have are from DAZ.

Tell me please...

• What is BVH? Are DAZ walk cycles BVH or DUF by default?... or is BVH a Poser or other format?
• Not being very familiar with DS... where is the "Bake to keyframes" option.
• I suppose that a walk, etc, cycle is different for each Generation... is that correct?

 [walk cycle impaired]   TIA

Pjotter

BVH are motion files. From walking to throwing to jumping, etc. In Carrara you select hip, import a BVH file and your character moves. They have the extension .bvh. A very big one is here: https://sites.google.com/a/cgspeed.com/cgspeed/motion-capture/daz-friendly-release.

But there are more. You can also import them in Daz Studio. Bake the keyframes is converting aniblocks (Daz Studio) to keyframes so you can export them as BVH or DUF. BVH fits to most generations. And do a search for "BVH Carrara" on YouTube as a start.

mindsong

All good stuff, it's also worth mentioning that BVH has become a generic standard (like obj' files are to meshes), but only effects bones! This means morphs (expressions, body warping effects) are lost to that conversion. This is why alembic/fbx/collada formats exist in the broader industry, and why Genesis3 has more bones in the face than previous Daz characters. Earlier Carrara-capable Daz characters have facial jaw-bones and eye-bones, but most expressions are done with morphs. Iclone controls/uses both if needed. The problem is none of the older stuff transfers (very well) to the G3 family, so large libraries and tools can't be easily carried forward to that character, even if it ever does become Carrara compatible.

It's a hugely useful format (BVH), but knowing its limits is useful as one designs a good workflow.

The iclone conversion is interesting (and may still be handy!), but I always made aniblocks in DS and imported them into Carrara, so that little direct 'duf' trick mentioned above is priceless! thanks!

--ms

mindsong

wgdjohn said:

Any walk etc cycles I have are from DAZ.

Tell me please...

• What is BVH? Are DAZ walk cycles BVH or DUF by default?... or is BVH a Poser or other format?
• Not being very familiar with DS... where is the "Bake to keyframes" option
• I suppose that a walk, etc, cycle is different for each Generation... is that correct?

 [walk cycle impaired]   TIA

I believe that the 'bake to keyframes' action is only available with the animate2 plugin (payfor). it's a right-click option on the background of the animate tab/screen.

The walks are different if the bones are different, and yes, they usually are different for each character. I asked if there was a standard BVH humanoid skeleton, and most folks said no such standard really exists. But... many apps have some mapping functions that let you import a BVH capture with a given skeleton, and remap it to a character with a differing skeleton (google 'danceforms' for a possible tool). Daz Studio's 'import' can pull in a BVH, and has a kind of hidden remapping (right click kind of thing) function that let's you remap and save a mapping profile. I got the large mixamo collection to genesis1 using this. Not perfect, but worked.

When a skeleton with 4 spinal bones is mapped to a skeleton with 2, you're obviously going to see some differences, but the results are usually still useful as a starting point. Note that some skeletons have hands and feet with tons of bones, and others have just a few (e.g. 1 bone for all 4 fingers, and one for the thumb). Again, for many uses, it's still useable/useful.  Most have slightly different names (which are the mapping mechanism), but the arms/legs/hips/neck/head are usually pretty similar across characters. 

There's a youtube video out there for taking a Poser walk-designer walk from poser to carrara - using the same character in both apps, if you happen to have poser. Even an older poser version has the walk-designer. M4/V4 should work fine. Genesis can probably be finessed. Genesis2 may be possible with the help of Wendy and others in here.

--ms

WendyLuvsCatz

my walks tend to footslide too so not the best one to ask

Mmoir probably the best person to look to for Carrara animation.

Dartanbeck

the3Ddigit said:

my walks tend to footslide too so not the best one to ask

Mmoir probably the best person to look to for Carrara animation.

Well I recall you showing success in bringing BVH into Carrara before. I was having a hard tme with it and you've shown me the way - but that was a long time ago and I haven't used that method since, so I can't remember how to instruct how to do it. But I was using those CMU files with great success.

Cool thing about GoFigure's and SKAmotion's and PoserMoCap's animation packs, I've never experienced foot slide.

Yup. I'm a fan of aniBlocks. That aniMate 2 is just one beautiful piece of work. So I would personally recommend the workflow Argus uses. I have a large collection od BVH files, but never use them - yet, at least. Instead I almost always opt for starting with a similar motion from my GoFigure, SKAmotion, or PoserMocap collection, and then tweak the animation by hand - using the original as a timing helper. 

I've even had Rosie walk down stairs using this method. But then another alternative for tweaking is to put the figure into a Group and keyframe changes to the character's position by moving the group. Then creating another group for further tweaks.

One thing I've noticed with Carrara is that, where there's a will, there's a way. 

 

wgdjohn

Pjotter said:

BVH are motion files. From walking to throwing to jumping, etc. In Carrara you select hip, import a BVH file and your character moves. They have the extension .bvh.  [cut]

Not having saved a walk cycle nor imported one I was'nt clear... Thanks!

mindsong said:

I believe that the 'bake to keyframes' action is only available with the animate2 plugin (payfor). it's a right-click option on the background of the animate tab/screen.   [cut]

Aaak!... sadly I don't have Animate2 for DS, only what it comes with, will have to wait for a GoFigure sale. I did latch on to Animate for Carrara but haven't messed with either.  Glad that you pointed out that it is Animate2... saved me a huge amount of time searching for it.  I'll still take a quick look but won't get my hopes up. Thanks!

the3Ddigit said:

Mmoir probably the best person to look to for Carrara animation.

Thanks Wendy... I'll ask Mike.

Dartanbeck said:

Cool thing about GoFigure's and SKAmotion's and PoserMoCap's animation packs, I've never experienced foot slide.

Yup. I'm a fan of aniBlocks. That aniMate 2 is just one beautiful piece of work. So I would personally recommend the workflow Argus uses. I have a large collection od BVH files, but never use them - yet, at least. Instead I almost always opt for starting with a similar motion from my GoFigure, SKAmotion, or PoserMocap collection, and then tweak the animation by hand - using the original as a timing helper.  [cut]

Dart... great advice using them for a "timeing helper"!

WendyLuvsCatz

Dartanbeck said:

the3Ddigit said:

my walks tend to footslide too so not the best one to ask

Mmoir probably the best person to look to for Carrara animation.

Well I recall you showing success in bringing BVH into Carrara before. I was having a hard tme with it and you've shown me the way - but that was a long time ago and I haven't used that method since, so I can't remember how to instruct how to do it. But I was using those CMU files with great success.

Cool thing about GoFigure's and SKAmotion's and PoserMoCap's animation packs, I've never experienced foot slide.

Yup. I'm a fan of aniBlocks. That aniMate 2 is just one beautiful piece of work. So I would personally recommend the workflow Argus uses. I have a large collection od BVH files, but never use them - yet, at least. Instead I almost always opt for starting with a similar motion from my GoFigure, SKAmotion, or PoserMocap collection, and then tweak the animation by hand - using the original as a timing helper. 

I've even had Rosie walk down stairs using this method. But then another alternative for tweaking is to put the figure into a Group and keyframe changes to the character's position by moving the group. Then creating another group for further tweaks.

One thing I've noticed with Carrara is that, where there's a will, there's a way. 

 

I just did what you already suggested, loaded it on the figures in DAZ studio or Poser and saved a pz2

I still get footslide though.

Dartanbeck

Bummer.

However, the footslide should be uniform across time, so by adding the figure to a group and shifting it further or backward just the right amount on the end frame we should be able to fix it 

That's part of what I meant by "Where there's a Will there's a Way" with Carrara. It just seems to always have a tool that can fix something, one way or another - often many ;)

Pjotter

the3Ddigit said:

Dartanbeck said:

the3Ddigit said:

my walks tend to footslide too so not the best one to ask

Mmoir probably the best person to look to for Carrara animation.

Well I recall you showing success in bringing BVH into Carrara before. I was having a hard tme with it and you've shown me the way - but that was a long time ago and I haven't used that method since, so I can't remember how to instruct how to do it. But I was using those CMU files with great success.

Cool thing about GoFigure's and SKAmotion's and PoserMoCap's animation packs, I've never experienced foot slide.

Yup. I'm a fan of aniBlocks. That aniMate 2 is just one beautiful piece of work. So I would personally recommend the workflow Argus uses. I have a large collection od BVH files, but never use them - yet, at least. Instead I almost always opt for starting with a similar motion from my GoFigure, SKAmotion, or PoserMocap collection, and then tweak the animation by hand - using the original as a timing helper. 

I've even had Rosie walk down stairs using this method. But then another alternative for tweaking is to put the figure into a Group and keyframe changes to the character's position by moving the group. Then creating another group for further tweaks.

One thing I've noticed with Carrara is that, where there's a will, there's a way. 

 

I just did what you already suggested, loaded it on the figures in DAZ studio or Poser and saved a pz2

I still get footslide though.

Save it as DUF files. Open this in Carrara. Works fine for me. Foot sliding is gone for me. Finally.

Mistara

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