Kids 7
1bravodeltabravo
Posts: 23
Would be good to see something other than dollish children and teens. Would love to see children models on par with V7 and M7.
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What about Donevan for Genesis 3 Male - Full Boy Character? Or is he too old?
Zev0 did the Growing Up set for G3M and G3F.
Donevan at the other store is a teen according to the description. To me there is just something a little off about him. I much prefer Chase here at DAZ and he at least includes a preteen/tween morph.
I consider Zev0's Growing Up morphs and skins to be must haves, but finding clothes that will work well on the female child is difficult. Also, there is currently a limited selection of skins that are appropriate for use on young children. By appropriate, I mean ones that don't look like they need a shave or look too old for the subject.
If DAZ produced a propack, we would get at least a couple of hairs, three characters each, a couple of pose sets, and a few outfits designed for kids. We can make do with what is available, but a Kids 7 or K7 for G3M and K7 for G3F would add a lot to the available options.
Far far two old. What I'm looking for is a child around the age of 4.
http://www.daz3d.com/growing-up-for-genesis-3-male-s
The Growing Up apps are fantastic apps, but they don't replace having a base figure at or close to the age of a child, or preteen character. This would be quite obvious if anyone has tried to morph an already overly endowed female base figure to a preteen. Figures like the tweens can be morphed to passable approximations of children, but we're still talking about a LOT of work.
There is a reason why you don't see a lot of renders featuring children. It's simply too much work; way more than someone who simply wants to do pin ups, who has it pretty easy.
But since this has been requested continually for quite some time, I think we have to accept that a non-toon child figure is something no one wants to do.
Sure, it's not as easy as simply selecting a prebuilt character, but it's actually less work than creating one from scratch and getting it through QA at one of the store sites. Clothing is going to be an issue unless you make it yourself, too.
It is disappointing that there has not been a Kids 7 iconic figure, especially as there have been loads of adult (or near adult, or toon) iconic figures for both G3F and G3M.
The fact that there has not been a Kids 7 suggests that there is a strong motivating reason why not. I would be interested to know the real reason(s).
Here are some possible suggestions: (please note I am not speculating that any or all of these are true, I am simply wondering about the reasons, in case anyone knows and wants to, and is allowed to, tell us.)
Perhaps:
1) No PA currently considers that sales would justify the effort (so don't make their own characters)
2) DAZ doesn't consider that sales would justify the effort (so don't buy PA characters or make their own)
3) It may be technically difficult to create a realistic child figure from the current G3x figures.
4) PAs and or DAZ may consider controversy over the possibility of misuse of child figures by a tiny minority as a risk/burden too high to take.
5) DAZ may be busy with many other projects such as other iconic 7 figures, developing new technologies for inclusion in to DS, or even developing a new generation of figures (which may or may not include child or baby figures). Certainly they are busy and Kids 7 may just be too low priority.
If anyone knows (and can tell) the real reason(s), please do.
Several people have mentioned morph packages which can help to make fair approximations of a child figure, and that may be considered by PAs and or DAZ as sufficient. However, I agree with Zylox that there are few, if any really "child appropriate" skins. It looks very weird and spooky to see a child figure in an adult skin (texture), especially with significant make up or even tatoos. Clothing is also an issue; whilst autofit can sometimes make a reasonable job of fitting a dress designed for a busty woman figure to a girl figure, it often does not. Even if it does, finding clothing that is "child appropriate" is difficult (not many 4 to 12 year old girls wear high heels and miniskirts, or ballroom gowns, for example!)
I know daywalker is working on a child character, but it would be great to see DAZ release an HD Kids 7 figure pro bundle with a bunch of appropriate hair and clothing figures as well as poses etc.
I think they have, but simply didn't call it Kids 7 Male or Kids 7 Female. To my way of thinking, that's what the Tween Iconic character bundles were supposed to be.
One thing to consider, is using the original Genesis or Genesis 2 figures for your children. They both accept Kids 4 textures and also have versions of Growing Up for them. You will still have the problems with clothing, although K4 clothes will autofit to Genesis. There are serious problems with skirts and dresses, but they may be fixable with the right add-ons. It is also possible to bring generation 3 young teens and preschoolers to Genesis, again requiring Gen-X add-ons.
Growing Up is made to bring Genesis down to about 5-6 years old. Combining the Child morph from Genesis or Little Ones with Growing Up may allow you to make a 3-4 year old. I was very sad to discover that Little Ones, Rayn, and Skyler's clothes do not work well on female Growing Up figures younger than young teen.
One PA has already confirmed #4 as the reason for their hesitancy to create such a figure. My question to that would be then, if everytime users ask for such a character and they are directed to all the morphing applications, then doesn't that minority have the ability to do that already?
Exactly the reason why I don't have a problem with creating tweens and younger characters; the ones some vendors are concerned about doing "bad things" with such characters already can if they are willing to take the time to make them themselves. Why should people that want them for honest uses be denied them because of what some others might do?
#1 and #2 are the main motivators, just like you don't see a David or Hiro.
Endowed cleavage or groin areas can very easily be morphed away.
@Male-M3dia Did your Genesis 2 boys not do well? I adore them and use them ALL the time, built some of my most favorite characters using them. I've been hoping you might do some younger heads and shapes for Genesis 3. I think this is Reagan (head morph), but I call him Jake.
Those aren't kids though, they would be young adult/teens. That is about the line before they stop selling. My younger guys do well, but I wouldn't recoup my investment going younger.
Yeah, gotcha,,,I'd be perfectly happy to have some young adults/teens to go along with the hunks you've been making of late.
I have no problem with the Tween Julies and Skylers et al of the DAZ family. I like them and use them, but no way can they be thought of as young children. It seems like the reasons for no Kids 7 may indeed be a combination of factors. Some of which I accept even if I don't like it, others are more difficult to accept:
Nelson makes a good point "One PA has already confirmed #4 as the reason for their hesitancy to create such a figure. My question to that would be then, if everytime users ask for such a character and they are directed to all the morphing applications, then doesn't that minority have the ability to do that already?"
Indeed, if someone is determined to misuse a thing, they will find a way. That should not mean that the ""thing" should be made unavailable to everyone. Some people use cars to kill people, should we prevent everyone from using cars to prevent the harm caused by a tiny minority? Do we ban all sharp pointed things because someone could use them for hurting people? I'm not even going to mention guns in the US... oops I already did.
In the end the choice of making a child figure should be up to the individual PA (and probably is), but it is sad that society limits it self because of the views or misdeeds of a few. Did I mention what an utter disaster Prohibition was in the 1920s and 30s USA? The people who lobbied for it probably thought it would benefit society. It would be interesting to see figures on how many people were injured or killed from 1920 to 1933 due to the implementation of Prohibition vs how many would have been injured or killed due to alcohol abuse. I mention this only to support the idea that restraining society in general, whether by law or taboo, to try to protect everybody from a tiny minority is not always such a good idea.
I don't discount argument 3) from being a significant issue, since the proportions and shape of children are so much different than adults. This combined with the need to get good/appropriate clothing and footware that actually fits is probably a serious challenge.
There is obviously an interest in figures and clothing for this, but it needs vendors to make this happen; if the existing ones are reluctant to, perhaps it is time for those interested in seeing this happen that have the skills to do so should get involved.
There is an interest, but the main question is if there's enough interest to pay for the time a PA would have to spend on it. Especially since solutions like Growing Up morphs are available...
Growing Up is only a partial solution, since not everyone wants to take the time to use them, and there isn't enough age appropriate and more normal clothing in the store in addition.
Yes, but some people might consider them enough and decide not invest in other child figures because of that, which reduces the potential market.
Not necessarily; I own Growing Up, for all three versions of Genesis, and I still see the usefulness of additional youth figures enough that I'm creating some for Genesis 3.
I agree with Daywalker here. Having a set of morphs for G3F to create a child like figure is nice but I think having specifically morphed figure shapes made by professionals is far more likely to give realistic results.
Consider this; if having some body and face morphs is sufficient to produce the figures that people want, then why have DAZ3d released so many different "iconic 7" figures? The differences between most of the iconic 7 figures are small compared to the differences between an adult figure (eg G3F) and a child figure (eg Kids 7)
My personal opinion is that DAZ3d has some level of duty to the 3d community to produce a Kid 7 iconic figure to fulfil the boast that genesis 3 figures are the bees knees of the 3d figure world (please note, I paraphrase :) ). Can it really be true that Bethany 7 or Ivan 7 are likely to sell more copies than Kids 7?
On your last question, since we don't have access to the actual sales figures, we can't answer the question. Many of us (not including myself) seem reluctant to accept the word of those that have made such figures and do have access to the numbers, so the question persists even after it has been answered repeatedly. If we want it to change, we're going to have to convince the PAs to be willing to take less if needed to get the products we desire; it's as simple as that.
My thing is, I want to see such a figure, before I accept that someone made one that didn't sell. Kids 7 are very stylized figures; they aren't necessarily the mate to the realistic figures that Daz has been leaning toward.
Neither am I inclined to beleive that something won't sell, if I can't find anything similar to it that didn't sell to base that on. I see lots of items pop up all the time, that make me wonder, "how many people have actually asked for that?" Most likely the PA simply wanted to model it, and did, not knowing whether it would sell or not, but of course hoping it would. If you can do this for figures/creatures/ whatever that no one asked for, why all the grumbling and sudden concern with what doesn't sell well when it comes to something that customers have asked for?
Just as an update I have tried out Growing Up and I am fairly pleased with the results I am guessing that is possibly the real reason for a lack of Kids 7 is that Growing Up is sufficient enough.
Hi bravo, I'm glad to hear you have made a character you are happy with using the existing morphs. Would you care to share a pic or two to show us. In view of the nature of the figure perhaps you should show the figure with just a plain white skin, preferably with mesh lines (Wire Shaded in the DrawStyle options menu). Seeing the mesh lines on the figure may allow folks to indicate where their might be a distortion problem when it comes to skin textures and even clothing.
Daywalker is right, we don't have access to sales figures, so we can't know how many copies of the various iconic figures have been sold. I don't think any PAs or DAZ3d have or would tell us that information. But an indication of relative expected sales of an iconic Kids 7 verses the average of the other iconic 7 figures from DAZ3d would be nice and might put this issue to bed.
I suspect that Nelson is right in saying most PAs just model what they want to and then see if the sales are good or not. However DAZ3d is in a different position to it's PAs. DAZ3d could either commission a PA directly for Kids 7 figure or have its own modellers make Kids 7. The fact that they have not yet done so says something, I'm just not sure what.
It says they are ready to move onto Genesis 4 in June :D
What, what, what...?
"It says.." what is this "it"? Where is this info from?