Applying d-former to high resolution level

ant2505

Hi, everyone!

I want to make some veins for G2F inside DazStudio. I was trying to apply d-former to high resolution level, but noticed, that with any level of resolution or level of subdivision, d-former always uses same edges of same polygons (see the pics). And i wonder: if high resolution doesn't work the way i want in this situation, what for is it then? And, of course, how can i make veins then?) Thanks in advance!

SixDs

"what for is it then?"

Well, one thing it is used for is mesh smoothing. That can often help with poke-through and other issues. Sub-d is also integral to using HD and similar texture maps that rely on sub-d in order to create finer details in renders. But it is important to remember that DAZ Studio is not, nor is it intended to be, a content creation program. It does have a few tools that will allow you to do a little more than just pose objects and set up scenes for rendering, but they are limited in what they can do. D-Formers are a good example of this. They are primarily included to deal with problems associated with fitting clothes to figures, deforming parts of figures colliding with objects, etc. They were never intended to be used to create or edit content, although it wasn't long before some started doing so. But they really are no substitute for a proper modelling program. If you want to create veins, I would suggest that you look into using bump, normal or displacement maps based on the figures texture maps. Once you have done that you may find that using Sub-D will enhance the effect.

ant2505

Guess you're right, but personally i find dazstudio's d-formers really comfortable to do body morphs for figures comparing to zbrush. Perhaps, that it's cause of my poor knowing of zbrush... For example, in dazstudio i know how to choose separate polygons and apply d-former to them controlling it with sliders, while i'm not sure whether there is possibility to do same thing in zbrush. I know there is some analogue of daz's d-former with ability to change form and size of it's deformation, but looks like this is not the same... Moreover, as i know, when exporting figure from dazstudio to zbrush and back, the resolution level of the figure must be on "basic" level. Does it mean, that i can't use zbrush to make hd morphs for daz's figures?

Could you please tell me how to use these "bump, normal or displacement maps"? I guess, first i should choose "normal map" in "surfaces" tab and then go for "layered image editor", am i right? If so, what should i do then? Maybe there is some kind of tutorial?... and is it enough to have only dazstudio to make veins that way, or i have to use some other software as well?

IsaacNewton

SixDs said:

"what for is it then?"

Well, one thing it is used for is mesh smoothing. That can often help with poke-through and other issues. Sub-d is also integral to using HD and similar texture maps that rely on sub-d in order to create finer details in renders. But it is important to remember that DAZ Studio is not, nor is it intended to be, a content creation program. It does have a few tools that will allow you to do a little more than just pose objects and set up scenes for rendering, but they are limited in what they can do. D-Formers are a good example of this. They are primarily included to deal with problems associated with fitting clothes to figures, deforming parts of figures colliding with objects, etc. They were never intended to be used to create or edit content, although it wasn't long before some started doing so. But they really are no substitute for a proper modelling program. If you want to create veins, I would suggest that you look into using bump, normal or displacement maps based on the figures texture maps. Once you have done that you may find that using Sub-D will enhance the effect.

Hi SixDs, you state that "it is important to remember that DAZ Studio is not, nor is it intended to be, a content creation program".

I'd like to take issue with you to some extent regarding that statement. Certainly DS is not designed for de novo character creation or complex object creation such as is possible in programs like Maya, Zbrush etc, but that is not the sum of "content". Content can and does include such things as morphs to existing figures. Moreover the DAZ3d advertising clearly indicates 3d morphinig as one of it's fearures (see http://www.daz3d.com/daz_studio). Further, for earlier versions of DS DAZ3d produced a Content Creator Tool Kit which was "Created for professionals, by professionals, the Content Creator Toolkit is geared toward serious content creators" DAZ3d the incorporated this into later versions of DS as standard "If you have DAZ Studio 4.x PRO Edition, you do not need to get the Content Creator Toolkit. DAZ Studio 4.x Pro Edition includes all the plugins and features of the Content Creator Toolkit."

You may argue that DS is not as good at creating content as some programs, or that DS is geared to creating specific forms of content, but I think it unfair to suggest that DS is not intended for content creation.

The tools that are included in DS ARE intended for both editing and creation of content.

The question raised by ant2505 is a valid one. What is the purpose of high resolution in DS? Clearly it allows PAs to create fine details in their characters which are available at the DAZ3d shop.

However, access to this HD technology for the purpose of making new morphs is only available to PAs, not the general user. The situation is worst with the latest and best figures that DAZ3d has released (Genesis3) since the number of polygons which are available for the normal DS user to morph (in DS or any other program like Zbrush) is less than 20000 in base resolution. So G3f has less than one third as many polygons available for morphing, for the normal DS user, compared to say V4 which has over 60000 polygons in base resolution.

PAs can use the HD technology to subdivide the G3f character mesh to millions of polygons if they want and make as detailed morphs which will be seen as HD morphs when back in DS. Normal users cannot do this.

There is the alternative (as mentioned by SixDs) of using weight maps displacement maps, bump maps and normal maps for making fine details such as veins. This technology is available to all, though many find it much less intuitive than mesh manipulation. This seems to be the only solution available to ant2505's problem at the moment.