Help making default glass shader work.

dyret

No matter how high my render settings are and all though I'm using a caustic camera the glass shader just shows up white in render.

Herald of Fire

Need a bit more detail to help you out here. Can you post your render settings? It might also help to know what other objects are in the scene. High amounts of reflection, for example, will require more raytrace bounces to properly calculate everything.

Szark

From memory when using a Caustic Shader Camera you need a Shader Mixer Light too and a Caustic Shader which you have. What version of Daz Studio are you using btw as the glass shader was broken in the earlier versions of DS4 and 4.5 last time I checked the glass shader was working ok with a normal distant light.

Khory

I'm not sure about caustics, but as I understand it regular glass needs to be enclosed in some sort of 360 "environment" to render properly. It doesn't have to be anything fancy. It can be a simple cube or sphere primitive. With regular glass if everything is not enclosed you get big black patches in the glass object.

wancow

http://blackraven3d.com/sponsored/fisty/freebies/

Look for "Fisty Liquids" good glass shader in there.

kitakoredaz

If you want to make caustic effect , you may need caustic camera and caustic light to make photon map, and catch them.
there are good You tube tutrorial .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwCHxSTlOQo&list=PL5606C0A5A62058AB
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2lwC6HHTrU

(I can not understand clear about all parameter well, but after making shader light and photon camera
by the tutorial, I just saved it as subset, then merge it into another scean then adjust photon color
or light direction etc)
but it is difficult to adjust the parameters . many times the effect are differnt from what I image ^^;
so I practice them with t each parameter changing one by one, how it work,,.

but when you just hope to use default shader mixture glass shader (came with daz studio)
, you may need not. just apply the preset ,,as default setting, I think it work @@;

so how your setting of glass shader and light ? (It can work with daz default light).

dyret

ok. thanks for the answers :) didn't know I need a special light as well. ok. have to do some experimenting. Thanx for the lik to fisty Wancow

Szark

Yeah Fisty's stuff are ok for average inages but you can't beat using properr shaders, shader lights and Cameras.

and Khory has a point about reflection

dyret

I have version 4.5.0.114 and hvae used up to 6 on max ray trace depth in the render settings with a shading rate of 0.10, still can not get the default glass shader to work.

dyret

sorry for spelling! LOL. I have also set up the cameras and lights the way described in the videos in the post up above.

Szark

I am sure the glass shader was broken in Ds4.5.0.114 There has been two Pubic releases since that version.

mjc1016

dyret said:

I have version 4.5.0.114 and hvae used up to 6 on max ray trace depth in the render settings with a shading rate of 0.10, still can not get the default glass shader to work.

That's because in that version there's a 3Delight bug that makes the raytrace depth not function...it's stuck at 2. Update DS to get a more recent version of 3Delight that fixes that problem.

kitakoredaz

I did not try glass shader with 4.5.0.114 beta
so if they are broken., you must need to update 4.5.1 if hope to use daz shader mixture glass shader.^^;
and I am not good renderer so can not show the bettere sample,,:red: sorry,,

I understand Khory pointed about reflection and 360. surroundings need.
for me to find caustic effect keep not so bright surroundings.

the second tutorial (in bright room and vase) was difficult to make same naturall scene for me too.
she mentioned caustic opacity of the glass shader need black (may opacity intensity zero?)
it seems important to clear see caustic effect.

then for final render, she set the caustics color grey of the caustics camera (for naturall)
but if first set the color grey like more vase shadow color, you may see not well how caustic effect work.
(so I first set the color orange or red then, change color gradually more naturall)

you may need to care about the material setting of sorroundings objects and
shader light direction and intensity.

but 6 of max ray trace depth may not need to check caustic , and glass effect for test lender .
I think,, 3 or 2 max ray trace can show you the effect clear .

shading rate too. it may lost your time much untill you decide the scene setting.
so not need to set 0.5 or 0.1 untill you decide everything. so for test, shading rate 1 or 2 OK, I think. @@;
my pic is max ray trace 2, and shading rate 1, then caustic color turn orange to check.
(but I understand it is more difficult,to adjust them for naturall and good render ^^;)

kitakoredaz

then,,this is my question,,(sorry)

so what is shader light?

for example,,, which product light means shader light?
I think not need to make shader light with shader mixture .

but I can not clear understand,, which light is shader light or not?
in daz shop,, which light can cause caustic effect ?

mesh light are not shader light? or urber area light can not caustic effect @@;?

Khory

Shader light is really sort of a catch all name in a way. If you look in light presets you will see DS default you will see 3 already set up shader lights. Fair warning they will over ride all the lights already in your scene. Best option is to load them in an empty scene and save them as a scene subset. Shader lights can be created with shader mixer and that gives you several options for types and so on. Someone mentioned earlier that caustics is one of the available types of shader lights that can be created. I think there are some tutorials for shader mixer but I'm not sure that it is covered by any of them.

kitakoredaz

Khory thanks,, so I understand, ds default light set can be call as one of shader light ,

then,, actually if hope to make caustics effect in ds , must need to make caustic camera and caustic shader light
by shader mixture which can make photon map? ,, @@;?

I know there are good (but difficult some of them) tutorial about shader mixture,
but hope more simply to make caustic effect, like as light preset or material preset etc,,

so I thought if there is some product light which can make good cautstic effect,
and another camera set,,

but now,, we have no choice to get caustic effect? must need to use shader mixture?

dyret

ok mjc1016. Downloading newesat version now.. Just hope that it doesn't f up everythinng I have installed. LOL

mjc1016

Khory said:

Shader light is really sort of a catch all name in a way. If you look in light presets you will see DS default you will see 3 already set up shader lights. Fair warning they will over ride all the lights already in your scene. Best option is to load them in an empty scene and save them as a scene subset. Shader lights can be created with shader mixer and that gives you several options for types and so on. Someone mentioned earlier that caustics is one of the available types of shader lights that can be created. I think there are some tutorials for shader mixer but I'm not sure that it is covered by any of them.

Ctrl-clicking on them will bring up the dialog box asking to 'replace all', 'replace selected' or 'add'...

mjc1016

kitakoredaz said:

Khory thanks,, so I understand, ds default light set can be call as one of shader light ,

then,, actually if hope to make caustics effect in ds , must need to make caustic camera and caustic shader light
by shader mixture which can make photon map? ,, @@;?

I know there are good (but difficult some of them) tutorial about shader mixture,
but hope more simply to make caustic effect, like as light preset or material preset etc,,

so I thought if there is some product light which can make good cautstic effect,
and another camera set,,

but now,, we have no choice to get caustic effect? must need to use shader mixture?

I don't know of any premade ShaderMixer presets that are available...other than the one in the glass set (I don't think it's a custom shader...'hard coded', not 'mixed' one).

But...the 'scene' may be broken. But the parts work...at least most of them. I'll load it up later and make note of which ones do work...and there is a preset for the glass shader, already. It's under the Shader Mixer presets...you just need the camera and light to go with them...and those are easy to make, anyway.

Szark

dyret said:

ok mjc1016. Downloading newesat version now.. Just hope that it doesn't f up everythinng I have installed. LOL

Well after 3 years of uninstalling and reinstalling DS2.3, 4 and 4.5 I have never had an issue with content after.

Yes sorry I meant to say SHADER MIXER light

ReDave

Kattey also asked recently about the refraction caustics and I haven't had the time to double check in the latest DS version, but in previous versions refraction caustics was broken (at least, as far as I understand it, I have a bug report somewhere). On the other hand, reflection caustics do work. You can use the My Library/Scenes/Shader Mixer/Caustic Sample scene as a base for reflection caustics. You need to select the DAZ logo (shuriken looking thingy) surface then in Shader Mixer select File-> Import From Scene... and click Accept on the window that appears (i.e. "Material"). You then need to connect the output of Ray Type Test(8) brick to the only free input connector on the If Else(7) brick and the latter's output to Reflection Colour on the DAZ Default Material (2) brick. Once you have fixed it save it as a brick network (File->Save Shader...) and use that instead of the Caustics Sample. You can also save a Shader preset (BTW, OT: what is a Hierarchical Material Preset?); for this to work you need to apply the shader to a surface firs, though.
I wouldn't save photon light & camera as a scene, because in the old one I have it seems to be stuck on the number of photons that I selected when I made it, and it doesn't seem to change no matter what I type. No idea if the new duf format supports saving the number of photons.

Bejaymac

mjc1016 said:

I don't know of any premade ShaderMixer presets that are available...other than the one in the glass set (I don't think it's a custom shader...'hard coded', not 'mixed' one).

But...the 'scene' may be broken. But the parts work...at least most of them. I'll load it up later and make note of which ones do work...and there is a preset for the glass shader, already. It's under the Shader Mixer presets...you just need the camera and light to go with them...and those are easy to make, anyway.

The problem is that many of the shaders in those scenes aren't fully connected up, there are a lot of brick networks that just stop without connecting the output to anything, not sure if it's the same issue that's in DS3 or not, with it you had to save your shaders in binary because in ascii some bricks wouldn't connect.

kitakoredaz

I just tried,, shader mixing light (as same as tutorial , for caustic effect)
and shader mixing photon camera ( I do not know clearly about each step)
then understand they can work with daz shader mixture glass (yes I used it ^^;)

then I ask,, is there any more easy way to make same effect or not @@;?

glass shader (shader mixture ) not make caustic effect I think without photon camera and caustic light.

pic 1 is,, I made the scene by shader mixture light, and caustic camera, and daz glass shader preset.(shader mixture)

it made caustic color on shade of vase.

then I made the scene with default daz shader light, and usuall camera with same position,
it can not make caustic reflected color on shade of vase I think,,@@;

or is there more simple way by use glass shader and daz default lights?
==================

thanks Redave, I tried again,,, about your mentioned sets.
then in ds 4.5. newest ver,, the caustic camera and light has problem yet
about reflection or reflaction?

mjc1016

kitakoredaz said:

or is there more simple way by use glass shader and daz default lights?

No...because the 'standard' lights and cameras don't have the ability to turn on the 'photons'. And since they are shipped in a binary format, there's no way to change that...hence the need to access the functions through Shader Mixer (you should be able to do it through Shader Builder, too...)

Maybe if we bug the dev team enough, they can add an on/off 'switch' for them to the standard lights and cameras...