Carrara compared to the "big boys" (Maya, 3DS Max, etc.)
Digifex
Posts: 15
Hi there,
I have just updated Carrara which I have been using since version 2. But since I haven't used any of the "big" 3D software apps (like Maya, 3DS MAx, Cinema 4D or the like) I'm curious to know what Carrara lacks in comparison to these other apps. Does anybody know?
Regards, Digifex
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Comments
You mean, regardless of the price ?
I'd say compared to the following:
- Maya
- 3DS Max
- Cinema 4 D
- Lightwave
- Modo
- Houdini
Well, the biggest difference is that you can BUY Carrara for about 50$, but you can only RENT Maya and 3dsmax for about 300$/month.
The others you can buy for >1000$ each.
Of course Carrara is cheaper. But how about the modeling tools, the shader system, aniamtion tools, render engine? Does Carrara hold a candle against the more expensive packages?
Carrara hasn't been updated in years, right?
Exactly, that's why I want to know what other software developers have added in the meantime.
Here is a Carrara render of a candle, scene is included in Carrara and was rendered right now, so yes it does hold a candle against other 3D apps:
I honestly have no idea how I could render a better candle in Maya, even if I had 3000$/year and training i Maya, it is still a candle...
you get what you pay for pretty much
unless its Blender 3D
then you just get grey hairs if you do not rip them out first!
Some news here about new plugins for Carrara:
http://carraracafe.com/
Can't speak about other software, but with Modo, what you get is more polish and refinements with the tools. For instance, where in Carrara you might have a simple soft select, in Modo you can define falloffs. Actually you can define falloffs for any tool (and multiple falloff algos) from scaling to bending to . . . More recent updates have been to concentrate on production for game engines. Most recently, nondestructive procedural stack-based modelling, better retopo etc.
Cool. So I'm imagining using such falloffs for animations being fantastic, but even for more control in capturing a still of a motion shot.
It feels like this is the sort of thing the original question is wanting to know - and is really quite the ponder in many ways. I hope this expands to help us all get an idea of the real answer. Not a nit-pick contest, but some honest realization of what the enormous (Enormous with a capital E) cost difference grants anyone wanting to explore the differences.
Yeah, Carrara hasn't been updated during the entire period of time when all of the other 3d apps made the switch to PBR engines and liquids are supposedly (maybe they really are?) a push-button simplicity. Weta digital has released their skin over muscle over bone system, which I think is truly amazing. I saw LightWave get some fun new features and Modo went from fairly new on the market to one of the more sought-after softwares of its type. The Big Boys continue to be HUGE and this benefits them from many fronts - including added support from both free and paid for plugins and such from the masses. But even more, it keeps them being the only thing talked about in the magazines regarding anything in 3D art creation.
I am one whom has often had this same wonder.
I'll take a peek around the corner and see that everyone is still using Maya... oh, wait... so many thousands just left and went to Modo? Hmmm... better have a look.
In these little stints into checking out the others, I'll often see something really cool - some feature or function that's getting some good visibility in the rags. I'll get on this hunt for more information and start tracking it all down, but only for more glimpses into what's going on... not getting too heavy into reading... time is always a bane and I've got stuff in Carrara that needs doing.
I'll watch short videos and read the captions and some of the Q&A. Lately it's been the procedural modeling techniques afforded in Maya, but other times it might be advancements in particles or added controls for linking pivots and the parenting properties on-the-fly and so forth. All of these things that could really stand to make life easier.
The thing for me is somewhat twofold:
A: I Love Carrara
Since getting Carrara I've been growing and growing in the realms of 3d and just loving it. There's a lot to learn and Carrara has some really nice features to soften the blow while still turning out some really decent results.I like having all of these primitive and volumetric solutions - simple to set up, then tweaked to perfection via better lighting and shaders. Just working within Carrara fills me with glee, and I like that.
In the end, I need the ability to make or bring in content, give it realistic (or not?) textures, apply motion, add dramatic lighting, and be able to capture it all on camera sending it out in a format I can further use to stitch into a movie. Carrara allows me all of these things well. Everything else is a simplification to the workflow.
B: Affordability
Max and Maya or anything else that requires regular dues is positively out of the question for me now. just cannot afford it. As for the others, I probably could piece together the funds to make the switch, but it would take a lot of time. LightWave is currently quite affordable, in my opinion.
For me, I just cannot afford the other apps. It's funny, because I couldn't afford Carrara either, when I bought it. It only ended up costing a couple hundred bucks, but times were tough for me then, and they still are. But that couple hundred bucks was given to Daz3d, and they won't let you give them that kind of cash without also giving, like... a thousand dollars worth of extras above and beyond what I was buying. It blew me away when I started downloading all of my goodies, only to find that I still had a bunch more stuff to pick out and download!
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The funny thing is, none of these higher-priced software options can do what Carrara does in one, special way: Load in Daz3d/Poser figures and their morphs, etc.,
Yes, we still have some tweaking to do. Shaders especially. But it all (most, anyway) works... and that's magical for someone like me whom wants to be able to do all of this using content from Daz3d or Renderosity.
Anyway, everyone here has already heard my views on that stuff... I didn't even really want to get into that, except to kind of explain the concept.
What I really hope is that someone with experience from some of these other options can pipe in with how ______________ is better because _____________, etc.,
It would really be nice to know what we might be missing out on from across the fence ;)
Talking of Weta Digital, Mari, which is the 3D paint prog that runs alongside Modo, was originally developed by Weta. Now of course it's released and developed by The Foundry. BTW, I only have the Indie versions, which are much cheaper but do have some significant restrictions - no scripting, native files tied to one machine, poly limits and so on.
I was going to try those, but I really don't like the idea of having to run through Steam like that. But besides being a few releases behind along the developmental line, they seem like an excellent option to get into those on the cheap.
The fact that you have Modo Indie and still use Carrara as your modeler is the true reason behind my not really looking into Modo anymore.
And in further response, in what I've been looking at, if I was to go for it and try going for a different setup, Modo is the one that seems to be the choice I would try. Their development is directly tied to the response from their users and is incredibly active.
Maya and Max look highly impressive but are so off the charts expensive for someone like me, I really try to not look too hard at them. It's nice to see what they're doing once in a while just in case someone comes along and asks me to use the software, but as awesome as they seem, I never really see anything to justify the cost for myself.
Whereas Modo's cost is easily justified. Not a huge investment for top-of-the-line tools.
And in that regard, LightWave also looks very powerful and even less expensive. Not the great choice right now for those interested in Active Development. While they might very well be in active development, the users sure aren't aware of any of it, it seems. That part doesn't bother me at all. I don't buy a software that falls short of my needs, waiting to shell out more dollars for constant releases. I bought Carrara because it does what I want, and I've been happy ever since!
It's partly lack of time to sit down and learn it properly. There are definitely things it does better (even waaay better) than Carrara in therms of general modelling. But Carrara still excels in other areas (trees, terrains, oceans etc etc)
If I'd spent big bucks on the full version (£1500 inc tax!), you can be sure I'd be putting every effort into getting the most out of it! But as it is, having Steam running in the background isn't much of an overhead, and I've still spent less on Modo/Mari Indie than it originally cost me to buy Carrara.
I own Lightwave, a very impressive program, but stopped updating years ago when I realized Carrara does everything I need. I think Dartanback hit the main point for me as a hobbyist short animation creator: the ability of Carrara to load and animate Poser format figures (characters, elaborate devices and vehicles, etc.) There is a huge number of these pre-rigged, load-in-Carrara-and-animate products out there at very affordable prices. I believe the PoserFusion product from Smith Micro (for 3ds Max, Maya, CINEMA 4D and Lightwave) requires that the animation be done in Poser. Not the case with Carrara, you don't need Poser at all. I'm not a modeler, so all the advanced modelling features in those big league programs have no value for me. But I'm sure the biggest advantage is being an industry standard, a huge factor for most I'm guessing. But of no value for me.
Very cool to know. If only it didn't have that one computer restriction as well. Still... you're right. The price is hard to pass up. Mari looks fun and, for those whom really love their SP, that can hook up as well (or instead of). Modo really does look amazing.
I was looking into it a bit when writing in my UV Unwrapping thread, and posted some videos in there that really have impressed me. As the many handy features were sinking in, imagining these features eventually evolving into my workflow just felt warm and comfortable. And it seems that they just keep pushing it to be even better and better on a constant basis.
Yes. I, too, mostly fit into this camp. Small exceptions being that I do enjoy modeling and everything that goes with it, but just don't do it often enough to make a huge investment to try and pull me away into another app.
When you're done modelling, FBX or OBJ export it into Carrara, and it's no longer a worry. The one machine limitation is there mainly to prevent sharing the original model in a team. They seem to think that whenever two or more people are gathered in Modo's name to collaborate on a project, there shall be a great reaping of riches. Or something. ;)
Right... I'd just really want to have the modeler available on both my travelling laptop as well as my main Carrara beast. Still... it's worth every penny for their main release. I imagine I'd just try the Indie to get myself 'taught' and start making money on mesh. Then just buy the real thing.
The problem still exists though. Until I find myself having a difficult time creating what I want to create in Carrara, why buy something else? I know... because the additional (wonderful) features would save a lot of time and make it all a better experience. One day I'm sure I'll try some other stuff. That day will probably bring home Modo/Mari Indie bundle ;)
Every time Carrara crashes I say to myself, buggerit I'm switching to Modo. But because I invariably give myself a week less to do things than it actually takes, I'm always up against a deadline, and that forces me back to Carrara because I know how to do it and so its quicker.
Dang, I've just this instant spotted a UV error in what is supposed to be a final promo render. (and having a brick style texture, it's really obvious too) Grrrr . . .
...and once you get proficient in Modo... such tweaks will be quick - if they'd ever even happen in the first place. I hear ya.
Just keep in mind... no software is crash-free. many times with my laptop, it's not Carrara at all... but something else starting up that really shouldn't. I think.
My Beast that I built myself (for Carrara) never seems to crash with Carrara ever.
I've crashed Modo too . . .
No. If it did, it would be used and advertised as such
Dartanback -
Don't ever say stuff like that, at least where the computer can hear you. (Whispering: I had a muscular machine custom built by a local shop and have had the same experience. A rare "error has occurred", but that's about it. Don't repeat this out loud.)
shhhhhh
Got it! BTW, I was nowhere near the Beast when I said that! ;)
Hi,
Hard question. The only two disadvantages of Carrara to other tools are:
- no decent scripting language; and
- low support from DAZ3d and other manufacturers.
Maya, C4D, etc. do all have great support (Houdini engine, Realflow integration, lots of plugins [Thinking particles, MASH, Golaem Crowd], render farms and render integration [V-Ray, renderman, Arnold... you name it]) and come with 1 or more scripting language(s) that make the software quite flexible. But it all depends on what you want to do. Normally, you don't use just one tool for all your needs. Maya is a bad modeler (other people tell you otherwise) and Bifröst integration is a joke. MASH doesn't even come close to mograph in C4D. C4D is easy to use but has its limits (in animation, modelling, fluids) and you will need some plugins to get to work (Turbulence FD, Thinking particles). Blender is almost unusable and slow in dynamics. Well, Carrara even haven't dynamics - at least dynamics you can use :)
So, you normally use a wide range of software because there is no all-around package. I usually use Carrara, Hexagon, Houdini, Substance Painter and Octane. With this mix, it can be an amazing journey :)
Best wishes,
Thomas
Carrara has most things the big ones has, they may have more advanced features in one way or another but the price is different of course also and the resources the compaines spend on it.
If Carrara had a file format that could use external references I would be happy to use it, as it is now it's useless, takes ages to save/load a large scene for any little change (I love the Carrara renderer, only the Lightwave native renderer can compete with it).
Maya can only handle 100 morphs, thats a bit silly.
C4D can't even import an OBJ file without you buy an extra plugin and it can't save/load poses from files without you buy an extra plugin, and to even get morph support in C4D cost $2000 !!!! (only studio version support them) paying $4000 for something that can't even import an OBJ file is also a bit silly.
MODO is cool but the surface editor drives me crazy and no good rendering in there, modeling tools are great.
Blender is uhmmm, well it's Blender, you select with the right mouse button, it can't import FBX files without hands on and a little magic, if you can live with it's weirdness then it's free and great, I can't use it, drives me nuts.
So Carrara is no bad choice, just need a little TLC to be great.
Hi.
Blender's realtime dynamics:
Looks pretty usable to me ...
Cheers
Well, I mean real-world dynamics, not real-time dynamics. In the first animation, it's not water but something else. Water does not look that way. And in the second animation, it's good for a game, but that's it. What I'm talking about is a house destruction that looks real and water that looks real :)
Best wishes,
Thomas