Story vs Special Effects.

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  • TangoAlphaTangoAlpha Posts: 4,584

    Talking of audio drama podcasts, here's one produced by members of my theatre group: https://actionsciencetheatre.com It's a bit occasional right now (people have lives etc), but there's 50 eps online and it's well worth a listen.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,326
    Steve K said:
    Steve K said:
    Diomede said:

    I love that show. I just posted about having the soundtrack of Ghengis Khan as a kid, I also really loved this lp record!

     

    I would love to do an audio drama... maybe some day?

    I never watched "Johnny Quest", but the music sure brings back memories of similar shows.  Question: What is the image of the man at ~1:30?  It doesn't seem to fit the rest, and in fact looks like a still from GTA5 that shows up during the game load, sort of like the attached.

    I'm not positive, but it looks like a painting of Race Bannon, one of the main characters of the show. (same guy that's fighting with the squid on the album cover)

    Man, I'm suprised that album never wore compltely through - my brother and I played it so much... that and that Genghis Khan soundtrack album we had. Then in 71 or 72 our local Woolworths store got Black Sabbath Paranoid. My uncle played that on his cassette recorder while I was swinging on the swingset at my Grandma's house. "...and so in the sky - shines the electric eye" was such a Jonny Quest kind of thing... Ozzy just became a super cool singer all of a sudden. So I bought that album and stuck with buying Rock albums from that day forward - until CBS FOX released John Williams' Star Wars - which, once again, changed my life!

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,326
    Diomede said:

    Steve K, thanks for posting the back of the Mike clip again.  I must have missed it the first time.  I love that the guys are wearing masks and then one of them uses the other's name!

     

    Dart - huge fan of the old Johnny Quest.  With the growth of podcasts, maybe you could do an audio drama.

    Agreed on the Mike clip! Love that!

    Audio Drama... yes!!!

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,326
    edited March 2017

    Talking of audio drama podcasts, here's one produced by members of my theatre group: https://actionsciencetheatre.com It's a bit occasional right now (people have lives etc), but there's 50 eps online and it's well worth a listen.

    Fantastic! Wow! Theatre through me ear buds! Love it! And 50 episodes of it too! ;)

    Something fun... I may have mentioned somewhere around here that I just got a new digital drum kit. Well as it turns out, it has a lot of cool effects sounds built in... but even better is that I can usb it to my computer and use all of the drums and cymbals as a midi controller for my Magix Music Maker (most folks would use Cubase, ProTools, Ableton, etc.,) as a DAW (digital audio workstation) - basically... here's the thing: These pads are very dynamic, sensitive to soft, medium, and hard hits, so it will work great for recrding foley!

    Footsteps at any pace, perfectly timed squishes and squawks, smashes and whishes, you know... a drum kit with the ability to replicate any sound I can get onto my computer!  Love this thing!

    Mine is newer than this - having very silent, yet incredibly responsive mesh drum heads, but otherwise the same.

    EDIT: This guy (above) does an awesome demo! What a great drummer! ;)  but I mostly use it for Rock like this:

    Post edited by Dartanbeck on
  • TangoAlphaTangoAlpha Posts: 4,584

    Last night I went to a preview screening of a new British film, Free Fire. There's very little in the way of story. There's very little in the way of special effects (basically some green screen location establishing shots at the beginning) although a fair amount of practical visual effects. The story, so far as it goes is: late 1970s Boston USA, an Irish terrorist cell goes to a disused warehouse to buy guns from a South African arms dealer (played by Sharlto Copley, who steals it). Then it all goes terribly wrong. There's bound to be comparisons with Resevoir Dogs, if only because of the setting. It's very violent (they must have fired enough bullets to pay for a small army!), very sweary, and lots of very British humour. I loved it! It's out at the end of March in the UK and (I think) late April overseas.

    Trailer is NSFW for language.

  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 3,226

    Reminds me of "Snatch", which I liked a lot (Ebert not so much, but even he said " 'Snatch' is fun to watch, even if no reasonable person could hope to understand the plot in one viewing." ).  "There's no getting past Mr. Ritchie's visual trickery. This director uses punchy music-video techniques as storytelling aids ... "  (NY Times)


    Customs official: Anything to declare?
    Avi: Yeah. Don't go to England.

  • starboardstarboard Posts: 452

    On a cruise right now and the internet is slowwwww..Be brief.

    In  earlier posts  on this thread got into inter-stellar travel and  what the future might hold. This months (March) Scientific American  has an article on how a group are in the design stages of sending tiny probes to Proxima Centauri using lasers to propell thin membrane sails.  It is a fascinating concept and they seem to have the funding. 

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,326
    starboard said:

    On a cruise right now and the internet is slowwwww..Be brief.

    In  earlier posts  on this thread got into inter-stellar travel and  what the future might hold. This months (March) Scientific American  has an article on how a group are in the design stages of sending tiny probes to Proxima Centauri using lasers to propell thin membrane sails.  It is a fascinating concept and they seem to have the funding. 

    Fantastic and fascinating! Like I say, scientists know that we, as a species, have to figure out how to live away from Earth if we don't want to accept the fact that we will otherwise become extinct in time.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,326

    It's been a (little) while since I've seen an episode of FilmRiot, which has been my TV show to watch of late. Well in the episode I just watched, Ryan Connolly was doing Q&A Monday and the question was about shooting more stable shots on a tight budget - but that's less important. After he answers the question quite well and honestly, he adds "Try to NOT focus on what gear to buy, but rather how to tell the story that needs to be told"

    This relates perfectly to what I've been trying to say for years now - especially when folks would compare something to Carrara because of its awesome ability to simulate fluids! If physically accurate simulations of fluids are your main story, I can almost see the importance of that. But there are plenty of other examples.

    Sure, I also try to add that: I'm not trying to say that Carrara is "Better" software that this or that. Yes, it's impressive what constant (and expensive) development can add to the workflow - especially if we have a team large enough to dedicate to that specific feature. 

    The thing is, we have Carrara. It has the tools to make it happen. We just need to imagine it, and then show it. ThomasSc has some amazing mechanical simulation animations that he's made using Carrara. It's all about knowing the story, and then telling it.

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,164

    IMO . I think  good story line should first,  special effect used when only needed .  or in my case if you have them to use.    :)

    I make stories all the time with very little to no FX .  But then my aftereffects MX 2004  is so old it won't do anything i can't do right in studio anyway.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,326

    Hi Ivy! ;)

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,164

    Hi Ivy! ;)

    Hiya back :)

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,164
    edited March 2017

    I did some corny special effects right in the Daz Studio software for this animation.  It should make ya smile it's like a old  B-rated Charlie Chan movie....lol

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,326

    Ahhh... Karate Girl... You have defeated my Dragon Essence... You have passed the trials!

    So cool! I love your movies!

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,164

    Thank you   . I was going to buy carrara last time it was on sale but you guys in the forum have been complaining about support on it so I'm been really shy about wanting to buy it. do you think that daz will ever have support agian for carrara?

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,326

    You'll rarely (if ever) hear me complain about that. I love it just the way it is. But... yeah... I know that Daz Studio's advancement is their number one goal, but I do think (I also think I'm very nearly alone in this) that Daz3d will update Carrara from time to time to allow it to work with their figure technologies. In the meantime, I totally enjoy using it with what it does work with, which is a LOT!

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,326

    On the Story vs Effects thing... I think it's very clear that we all feel that the story is the most important element. But we also need folks whom specialize in creating, even just dreaming up effects. Effects without a story are nothing more than... well... effects. But stories without some sort of effects can be very dull. That's why we have folks whom are excellent at telling stories (using natural effects in their voice) and those whom fall flat (no sense of timing and/or fluctuations).

    Anyway, there are also effects that just help to make dull moments more enjoyable to watch. 

    Are any of you watching the new Netflix series: "Iron Fist"? Like the other Marvel stories they have been taking on as Netflix Originals, the effects in the title sequence are just awesome! Daredevil had that awesome red wax or plastic, this one has visual motion in the form of wax or plastic... it's just cool! Oh... and then come the great stories! ;)

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,164
    edited March 2017

    I know what you mean special effects do hep the drama in a story as well I mean how spooky would it be walking through a graveyard with out all that spooky ground fog..lol

    I may pick up carrara next time they have in a flash sale again which has ben often lately . All my animations are done in daz studio so I am glad daz does keep trying to improve the software. though it would be nice if they concentrated on physic and dynamic more than connect anc cloud and stuff like that.

    I made this street race animation in daz studio. I use fog panes and  flat panes with smoke textures for the tire smoke etc,   its nothing special but it does help the story

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 3,226

     ...  stories without some sort of effects can be very dull. 

    I'm a big fan of "Fargo", the TV series.  Noah Hawley has produced a series that fully lives up to the Coen Bros. classic movie, mostly due to the great scripting.  So, you might ask, why have UFO's appearing (a pretty cool special effect)?  The answer is that happens out there in the wilds of the American midwest.  Or, as one critic puts it, "just because".  

  • StezzaStezza Posts: 7,989

    I loved watching Fargo the series...

    and who would of thought of Mr Bean being in a blood-curdling psychological thriller. laugh

  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 3,226

    I just finished watching the first season of "Deadwood" (for the first time).  It was better than I was expecting, but everybody else said long ago it was really good, 8.7 at IMDB.   I think most of the credit goes to creator/writer David Milch, plus some great acting.  For those unfamiliar, its not a traditional Hollywood/TV "Western", but a "based on a true story" slice of history kind of thing.  The real Deadwood was/is in the Black Hills of South Dakota during a gold rush in the late 1800's.  Legally the land belongs to the Sioux, so there is no American law and white men are not allowed, but the gold brought them quickly by the thousands.  The result is, as you might expect, a pretty rough town.  

    About the only "effect" that Milch (30 min video below) mentions is that the town itself (the buildings, streets, crowds, horses, etc.) is a character, and the set designers worked to that end, successfully I think.  Milch tells a lot in the "Making Of ..." extras about his writing process, pretty interesting.  The dialogue is generally intense (and very frequently obscene), but it does have some humor.  A favorite sequence between the very obscene Calamity Jane and "E.B.", the hotel keeper and mousy gofer for the big boss, referring to a resident rich widow from New York:

    Calamity Jane: I'm calling on the widow and the little one in her care, and if I was you I wouldn't try to stop me.
    E.B.: Be brief!
    Calamity Jane: Be f****d!
    E.B. (Aside): Her gutter mouth, and the widow in an opium stupor: a conversation for the ages.

    Milch Interview (caution: language):

  • Rashad CarterRashad Carter Posts: 1,799
    edited March 2017

    Are any of you watching the new Netflix series: "Iron Fist"? Like the other Marvel stories they have been taking on as Netflix Originals, the effects in the title sequence are just awesome! Daredevil had that awesome red wax or plastic, this one has visual motion in the form of wax or plastic... it's just cool! Oh... and then come the great stories! ;)

    The Iron Fist Semi-Spoiler alert-------------------

    Gotta sound off on this.

    Special Effects- I'd give the Iron Fist a C+. The main special effect for which the show is named is late to be revealed and somewhat underwhelming. Personally, I think the entire notion of The Iron Fist is extremely campy. I mean, with only a fist as his super power...how interesting can the visuals actually end up being? It's a somewhat sad super power to begin with, since it doesn't come along with any complimentary capacities such as super fast healing or super strength or anything at all super above the wrist. All this is separate from the silly notion of the rotten spoiled uber-wealthy Manhattan city kid becoming a kung-fu world master and carrier of special kung-fu magic. I've become convinced that Daredevil, Jesical Jones, and Luke Cage and now The Iron Fist are easy to produce because compared to a hero like Supergirl, these NYC super heroes require much less technical achievement in Special Effects.

    Daredevil had the best fight scenes of any of the Netflix/ Marvel collaborations so far. And the very best of those was at the beginning of Season 2 in the hallway stairwell. Fight scenes in Daredevil season 2 fell off quite a bit from there.

    Jessica Jones also left me underwhelmed in her fight scenes. Her only ability is super strength and jumping really high. We hardly got to see her powers at all through the entire series; so I don't get it.

    Luke Cage as a series did a great job of capturing the feeling of Harlem in NYC. Living on the very streets the show is set upon, I did find it believable. But many of the fight scenes in Luke Cage are slow and pedestrian compared to Daredevil. Sure, Luke is strong, but his reaction times are molasses

    The Iron Fist supplied much better fight scenes than Luke Cage by a good margin. Fight scenes were among the thing I liked most about The Iron Fist. Still nowhere close to Daredevil.

     

    Story- Compared to Daredevil season 1 which could be given a solid A- for story; I'd have to give the Iron Fist season 1 a solid D. I'm so sorry to say this. I hardly even know where to begin. They had some good ideas to play around with, but got everything out of sequence. They brushed over the wrong things. There are serious plot issues that Special Effects could have helped remedy at least in part. More on that in a moment.

    The main problem being that our hero sports a far below average intelligence. Is the guy good looking, Yes indeed. But he's as dense as a neutron star. He's literally a child trapped in a grown man's form. He seems to know nothing about how any aspect of his adult reality operates, from business to personal to spiritual, he's clueless about everything and a lose cannon quickly becoming toxic to anyone close to him. He's completely lacking in self awareness and self control. He's supposed to be the exact opposite after his life of discipline and Kung-Fu training in the Heavens. Nothing he does at any point in time makes any sort of sense, and it makes it difficult to root for someone who is simply reacting like a child rather than approaching conflict resolution in an adult manner. He causes more problems than he solves. This guy never has an actual strategy, he's never a step ahead..always playing catch-up with that silly messy hair. He came to New York with absolutely no plan at all. Notice how much time the character spends with a "confused" face on, in reaction mode? And he's a deserter from his sacred post, which would be tolerable only if he had some truly noble reason for what he has done. But here, there's nothing. Just a guy who's honestly too dim witted and self concerned to be entrusted with such a powerful weapon. Bad things happen, that's life anywhere, even in KunLun. As an adult he should be able to accept and move on from most anything, especially things from the far past which he can do nothing to alter or improve. But not this guy. He even breaks one of his most sacred vows as a Monk and it doesn't phase him one bit! He has little if any true honor. The Monks made a big mistake choosing him, at least that's how it seems right now.

    Several characters at various moments in the series actually have to come out and ask the guy "Are you a moron?" A stack of other characters mention audibly that he is "the worst Iron Fist ever." As an audience member I had to agree, he does seem like a complete moron, and he must be the worst Iron Fist ever, for obvious reasons. He's driven by petty and childish personal exploits such as revenge over his past, which should be beneath a hero like him who's now a Divine being with heavenly concerns; who has a sacred task to perform that was only bestowed upon him because he claimed to wanted it and beat out all other challengers to attain it. After everything he still fails to understand sacrifice for the greater good. He really is a moron.

    This show would have been much more compelling if time stood still inside Kunlun for 15 years. Indeed Danny Rand would still be a 10 year old boy arriving clueless in NYC 15 years later un-aged, along with having gained a magical Iron Fist that he has yet to learn to control completely. As an actual physical 10 year old, all the stupid things he's doing as a character such as searching for himself and the story of his previous life would be more acceptable. But I have a hard time believing any adult would behave the way he does, even one who's been away for a long while.

    He's not the only one. Ward, Joy, Harold, Gau, the Dojo instructor and Claire the nurse Luke Cage is dating, and sensei Bakuda. None of their character motivations seemed rooted in anything except a need to continue filming.

    Post edited by Rashad Carter on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,326

    Right... but I'm talking about the cool effect their using on the opening credits. Like Daredevil, I really like the 3d artist who's doing this. Has to be the same folks. I just thought it was cool. Says so right in the quote you have of me at the top of your post - oh well.

    I have to admit, I only bought comic books when I was a kid, and back then I only looked at the pictures and read barely enough to cop the gist of things... sometimes. 

    I don't know... it really is simple to pick stuff apart - especially if it's based on a story we already love. I'm glad I have no clue how to be a critic or I wouldn't have much to watch since I cannot stand what most people I know (locally) watch. I really can't. 

    People would rag on me for watching Conan the Barbarian, Fire & Ice, my beloved Star Wars the Clone Wars animated series, Dark Crystal, whatever. Half the time I'm just sitting back enjoying the art and hopefully some cool background music.

  • TangoAlphaTangoAlpha Posts: 4,584

    I watched the first few episodes of Iron Fist: guy was an idiot. There were several "Seriously?" moments. Did like the fight scenes though, especially the dojo girl and the cage fight. But not enough to keep watching.

    Luke Cage was just zzzzz. The early shootup of the barber shop was well done, but when I started waking up at the end credits I knew it was time to quit.

    Jessica Jones: definitely a 'B-level' superhero, but David Tennent's hammed up baddie kept me watching.

    Haven't seen Daredevil or Fargo (loved the movie though)

  • I watched the first few episodes of Iron Fist: guy was an idiot.

    Thanks for the warning, I'll will not watch it then, even Netflix is bound to have flops, sometimes ...

    Luke Cage was just zzzzz. The early shootup of the barber shop was well done, but when I started waking up at the end credits I knew it was time to quit.

    I actually liked Luke Cage, it took 3-4 episodes to warm up to it, Rosario Dawson helped a lot for the show to be more likeable wink

    Jessica Jones: definitely a 'B-level' superhero, but David Tennent's hammed up baddie kept me watching.

    Oh, yeah, David really made it more solid, have to admit, I'm big fan of Dr. Who, lol.

    Haven't seen Daredevil or Fargo (loved the movie though)

    So far, Daredevil is the best original superhero show on Netflix, I highly recommend it, only one which can really match it is Gotham.

    Supergirl was just plain stupid IMO...

    Season 1 of Flash was not bad either, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. was good to, got a bit watered down in third season though.

    Lots of folks liked the Arrow, I just could not warm up to it for some reason smiley

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,326

    Hmmm... I watched the whole season of Iron Fist had had quite a bit of fun! Fantastical, for sure. Again, though... I don't critique... I just kick back and enjoy.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,326

    Agreed on Daredevil. I love that show. I guess the concept was to have one season each of Daredevil, Jessica, Luke, and Iron Fist, now continue on with them all put together as: The Defenders. We'll see how that turns out. I bet I'll like it. I just wonder how it'll stand up to criticism. I think. Sure... Wonder? Yes. Care? No.

    Really happy though. April 4th Rogue One: A Star Wars Story comes out on BluRay... it's mine!!! I went and saw Beauty and the Beast - my Granddaughter's first theater show - and I loved it! I wish they would have redone the songs for Jungle Book as well as they did for this! I loved Jungle Book, but I didn't like the wrecking of what were fantastic songs. Either omit them or perform them, Wrecking them, to me, was a bit disappointing, but not enough to wrech the killer effects that make up that movie.

    Beauty and the Beast, however, redid the original songs the way they were meant to be sung and performed as well as adding a couple of original new ones. Hermione Granger as the Beauty was stupendously awesome! The Beast remindd me of the awesome CGI face of Beowulf enough to lead me to believe it was the same actor. 

    The funnest time for me, though, was watching that little three-year-old watch with great intent though the whole movie. She was amazed... and that was magical! Reminded me of how I felt when I was watching Rogue One! 

    Speaking of Rogue One, I'm really glad that they made that movie. A New Hope's beginning is now transformed into a much more pulse-pounding, scary sequence after seeing the ending of Rogue One - even more so if watched one right after the other, even a week or so apart but close enough in time to still have that ending fresh in memory! Yikes that was cool!

  • TangoAlphaTangoAlpha Posts: 4,584

    I saw Beauty & the Beast on Broadway 15 years ago. Really great production in one of the tattiest theatres I've ever been to. Still don't know how they did the transformation.

    I also loved the new arrangements of the songs on Jungle Book. Sure, they won't replace the originals, but I thought they were a nice fresh take.

    But I hate the way they wrecked the theme tune on the half-cg/half-miniatures reboot of Thunderbirds.

  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 3,226

    " ...  stories without some sort of effects can be very dull."
    I watched "Cosmopolis" recently, based on the Don Delillo novel, screenplay and direction by David Cronenberg.  Most of the movie takes place inside a stretch limo.  Two stars out of four from Ebert, who says, " 'Cosmopolis' is a flawlessly directed film about enigmatic people who speak in morose epigrams about vague universal principles they show no sign of understanding. ... The limo is a command center with touch-screen displays that have the world's financial transactions rattling past. One of Cronenberg's achievements here is to shoot so many scenes inside this vehicle without ever seeming crowded, cramped or limited."  The story is greatly enhanced by the limo interior shots, which remind me a lot of a space ship interior, like Kibarreto's great Shuttlestar.

    Cosmopolis Limo CP_MRX_VFX_05A.jpg
    1400 x 788 - 1M
    Kibbaretto popup_2_12_4.jpg
    950 x 600 - 178K
  • DesertDudeDesertDude Posts: 1,235

    I'm psyched about Twin Peaks Season 3. The first episode airs May 21. All episodes are directed by David Lynch who used to pooh-pooh on cgi, although I think I read somewhere or heard in some interview he got kind of fascinated by what could be done in post when he made Inland Empire. I'm expecting his usual style of just making the ordinary super creepy.

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