Daz Vendors - listen closely

SickleYield

wancow said:

Scott-Livingston said:

Ultimately, what's the difference between the vendor who gives you good service and personal attention because s/he thinks it will improve the bottom line, and the vendor who gives you good service and personal attention because s/he cares about you?

I can give you a third reason: because in giving good service the vendor might learn something that will give his or her next product better value... and that happens more often than not. Personal service improves the bottom line always. That's the beauty of it... being nice means more money? Really?

That kinda aces my ability to be in business simply because I'm so grouchy... :P

I like to hear customers say nice things to or about me, but I like to hear what they want even more, and from the more people the better. It's hard to avoid the few people who want something badly and their tendency to drown out the tons of people who want something a little, but it's the second group that I really want to hear from (usually there's overlap).

For instance, a few people will pay $15 at Rendo for a slightly revealing male-oriented necromancer outfit. A LOT of people, however, will pay $10 for a unisex pair of jeans with good textures and tons of morphs, including most of the ones who bought the necromancer outfit. This is especially important for me because I work in a niche (and believe me, anything that isn't a sexy female product is a niche in this market).

Mostly I have to learn this by trial and error, which is sometimes expensive in terms of lost business.

Harry Dresden

wancow said:

Scott-Livingston said:

Ultimately, what's the difference between the vendor who gives you good service and personal attention because s/he thinks it will improve the bottom line, and the vendor who gives you good service and personal attention because s/he cares about you?

I can give you a third reason: because in giving good service the vendor might learn something that will give his or her next product better value... and that happens more often than not. Personal service improves the bottom line always. That's the beauty of it... being nice means more money? Really?

That kinda aces my ability to be in business simply because I'm so grouchy... :P

Ugh, I can't seem to get it across that it's not the vendors or the stores' motives I'm questioning but the misconception with some customers that just because they get good service and a few smiles they are entitled to have their every whim obeyed. It is to them I'm saying (or trying to) that they are not as special as they might think.

Harry Dresden

SickleYield said:

I like to hear customers say nice things to or about me,

You're one hot lady!

but I like to hear what they want even more,

A night alone with you in Paris?

and from the more people the better.

Kinky, but I don't like crowds.

Mostly I have to learn this by trial and error, which is sometimes expensive in terms of lost business.

But that's the best way to learn!

Hmmm...maybe that's why my requests always get ignored. I don't think I understand the questions correctly... :lol:

SickleYield

Harry Dresden said:

SickleYield said:

I like to hear customers say nice things to or about me,

You're one hot lady!

but I like to hear what they want even more,

A night alone with you in Paris?

and from the more people the better.

Kinky, but I don't like crowds.

Mostly I have to learn this by trial and error, which is sometimes expensive in terms of lost business.

But that's the best way to learn!

Hmmm...maybe that's why my requests always get ignored. I don't think I understand the questions correctly... :lol:

I, uh... wow. LOL

Harry Dresden

Sorry Miss SickleYield. That was most unbecoming of me. It's just that I have a thing for context. Taking things out of context that is. ;)

I'll go smack myself now. :P

Scott Livingston

SickleYield said:

I like to hear customers say nice things to or about me, but I like to hear what they want even more, and from the more people the better.

Well, since you asked... ;-) Keep on doing what you've been doing and I'll keep adding your stuff to my wishlist, and occasionally purchasing something, as funds permit. Your products rock, and much of what you do is in the genre I'm most interested in: believable, versatile fantasy attire. I'm excited about your forthcoming Rigging and Morphing System too...

frank0314

Most PA's here tend to listen to what their customers want and we try to accommodate, but there is always going to be someone that isn't going to be happy with it cause it isn't exactly what they wanted. Its part of this business and you just move on.

Khory

It is to them I’m saying (or trying to) that they are not as special as they might think.

I think that is part of the human condition some of the time. We believe that other people all want what we want for example. It was almost laughable how stressed people use to get about making sure that they would get a slot in some fairly obscure class that ended up with 10 people in it. Even I am prone to it. I made a bee line to the store the other day because they had a mop I wanted at a fairly reasonable price. Guess what? They had not in fact sold out over night and based on the volume they had I was the only one frantic to get it before it was gone.

I managed a college book store and almost universally students believed that the rules were for other people. I really did like the vast majority of the kids (and adults) that were my customers but I regularly wanted to stand in front of a packed room and say "I know your mother says your special but I am not your mother. Now stand in a line and wait your turn!" because all too often people believe that their needs superseded the needs of everyone else in the room due to some "difference".

We are all unique and special to someone somehow. Even if it is only to ourselves. But that is on a micro level. On the macro level we blend in to overall society most of the time. That by the way is not a bad thing since it makes us able to cooperate and coexist with relative ease most of the time. As customers we are working on a macro level almost all the time. Even if we are able to build a relationship with someone in a one on one sales situation it is very rare that it is the only transaction of that nature or that there are no outside influences that are going to shape how people can behave during the transaction. An example would be someone in a department you shop regularly in a big box store. The sales person may even be a personal friend who you know outside the store. But that isn't going to change what price they can give you or prevent them from selling the same t shirt to other people. So no matter how special you are to them on a micro level it isn't really going to have much effect on how they can treat you on the macro level. And as a society we have to appreciate that because it means that even though we are not treated special occasionally we are in generally treated fairly most of the time.

wancow

Harry Dresden said:

the misconception with some customers that just because they get good service and a few smiles they are entitled to have their every whim obeyed. It is to them I'm saying (or trying to) that they are not as special as they might think.

Sorry I missed that. Don't get me started on people who think they're entitled... ugh... I've got a tonne of experience with those that pay nothing and expect everything... hmmm... sounds like some DS users... heheh

<----(shuts up now before the admins beat him up again...)</p>

scorpio

wancow said:

Harry Dresden said:

the misconception with some customers that just because they get good service and a few smiles they are entitled to have their every whim obeyed. It is to them I'm saying (or trying to) that they are not as special as they might think.

Sorry I missed that. Don't get me started on people who think they're entitled... ugh... I've got a tonne of experience with those that pay nothing and expect everything... hmmm... sounds like some DS users... heheh

<----(shuts up now before the admins beat him up again...)</div>

Only DS users?

SickleYield

scorpio64dragon said:

wancow said:

Harry Dresden said:

the misconception with some customers that just because they get good service and a few smiles they are entitled to have their every whim obeyed. It is to them I'm saying (or trying to) that they are not as special as they might think.

Sorry I missed that. Don't get me started on people who think they're entitled... ugh... I've got a tonne of experience with those that pay nothing and expect everything... hmmm... sounds like some DS users... heheh

<----(shuts up now before the admins beat him up again...)</div>

Only DS users?

Well, many vendors have at some point had a thief contact them for support of a stolen product.

wancow

scorpio64dragon said:

Only DS users?
No... just an example :)

Well, many vendors have at some point had a thief contact them for support of a stolen product.

Wow! Talk about audacity!!!! This I'd not heard before.

Harry Dresden

SickleYield said:

scorpio64dragon said:

wancow said:

Harry Dresden said:

the misconception with some customers that just because they get good service and a few smiles they are entitled to have their every whim obeyed. It is to them I'm saying (or trying to) that they are not as special as they might think.

Sorry I missed that. Don't get me started on people who think they're entitled... ugh... I've got a tonne of experience with those that pay nothing and expect everything... hmmm... sounds like some DS users... heheh

<----(shuts up now before the admins beat him up again...)</div>

Only DS users?

Well, many vendors have at some point had a thief contact them for support of a stolen product.

How does that even work? I mean, does a guy just come out and say 'I downloaded your product from this or that site and I can't get it to work'?

SickleYield

No, they pretend to be a regular customer. Most don't realize we can check whether they've actually bought the product or not.

Harry Dresden

Lol. I can just imagine the red faces when you bust them. "Uhm, but I swear, that is my original order number! Your records must be screwed up!'.

That's really just adding insult to injury.

wancow

They can lose their ISP account for that :)

7th Stone Productions

Rebuttals… or …Digging Myself a Deeper Hole.

Thank you for the replies and opinions. I’m always open to new ideas.

Actually, this will be the one and only time I respond to replies on “this” topic due to the amount of time it takes. (OK… you can stop clapping now. ) :-)

Male-M3dia said:

7thStone said:

Male-M3dia said:

RAMWolff said:

Well..........while the title may be misleading my question is this. Why the hell haven't all you merchants jumped down DAZ pipe about how shitty this site is. I highly doubt folks are making the kind of money they used to make here. DAZ main concern is making money off of products sold here and make in house but their web site is STILL crippled at almost a year now in both the store and the forums. Sorry but it's just pathetic and unprofessional. You can bend over to defend DAZ but you know that's really not what needs to be done. it's frustrating beyond anything I've ever dealt with as a client and member of a forum. I don't like it one bit.

LOL, you're acting like we haven't said anything. ;)

But here's the thing about the sale dates... it kind of screams of "buy now" doesn't it? So, to be honest, it's not such a bad idea. It's kind of like going to a grocery store and seeing TV dinners that are normally $3 on sale for 5 for $10. They don't have end dates on the sale, but you kind of know to go ahead and stuff 'em in your basket because they may not be that price for long. If they had dates, you'd be tempted not to get it now and come back later.

So I see why it isn't a high priority; if you see something on sale... grab it. ;)

I'm sorry, but that psychology just doesn't work for me, and due to the number of times I see this topic come up in the forums I am guessing it doesn't work for many others. 3D content is not a "necessity" and therefore I like to have time to think about a purchase before I make it. I don't like being pressured to buy because there is no end date on a sale and having to worry about when the sale will expire. Unless I really like an item and know I can use it I will always bypass a sale that does not have an end date, and unintentionally, I may never consider buying the item again. It may seem counter intuitive, but if the sale has an end date I feel less pressured to buy the item because I will know how much time I have to think about the purchase, will therefore feel more comfortable about the purchase, and as a result be more likely to make the purchase. Not having an end date has meant that I've let more and more sales slip by without taking advantage of them, that I've become more and more dissatisfied with the DAZ store, and that I have been buying less and less. (Perhaps I'm just abnormal *wink*)

Also, I've been trying to be patient, but find myself agreeing with others in the opinion that the new site is a step backwards. It broke more then it fixed. Tools for selling and promoting product that worked before have been lost and not been replaced. Sigh...

But it does work for many people otherwise it would have been changed by now. Keep in mind forum member are a tiny part of people who buy and most people don't even bother to come into the forum. So if you are the ones that say "I'll just buy it later", then you run the risk of missing the sale, which is really the point. Stores generally want to buy stuff preferably right then not later, but they also place things so where you will buy extra because they're on sale with no noticeable end dates. All part of buying more while you're in store... so really it does work.

“But it does work for many people otherwise it would have been changed by now.”

Just because it may work for many people doesn’t mean it would have been changed accordingly by now, although it may increase the chances it would have been changed. Also, I don’t know you and don’t have the data to support or deny the statement. It may be true for the DAZ store, but I am not going to accept it on faith. (Note: I would expect everyone to treat any statements I make with the same respectful skepticism.)

I am well aware that forum members are a small part of the entire Poser/DAZ community or customer base. I also tried to make it clear that I do not fit the general category of customers that will say “I’ll just buy it later”. I am a little different. I’ll buy anywhere from immediately to a day later “depending on the product itself”. My point is that I am not an impulse buyer. I’m what could be called a “horse trader”. The push to buy “now” doesn’t work on me, and I am not alone in this (although I do not know the general percentage of other customers who share similar views). The push to buy now just pisses me off. That is one of the reasons why I would argue for an end date on sales, and that is the only thing I am arguing for here… is an End Date on sale advertising. I don’t see that much harm in adding the end date to sales to make them a bit more appealing to a wider audience. Sure, a few people might delay their purchases if they know they have a certain length of time to make a purchase and then miss the sale because they delayed and forgot about it. Under such circumstances, “as they apply to the DAZ store”, I would expect the customer to quickly learn to correct their behavior if they wished to take advantage of future sales. I’m simply of the opinion that the advantages of having an End Date on sales out weigh the disadvantages.

Yes, stores do preferably want you to buy stuff right then and there and not later, and encourage you to buy extra because of the sale, with or without noticeable end dates (However, more often then not the end dates are listed in the advertising in my experience). But please be careful with those comparisons because the DAZ store interaction with customers is not exactly the same as the type of stores you are referencing. Therefore, sale strategies may need tweaking. For example, the idea of selling more then one of an item to a customer does not exactly hold up with the DAZ store and the type of products it sells. A small point I know, but such differences can affect the sales strategy.

Actually not all that many people are complaining or have stopped buying. Since I'm in a 'cut the bull' mood lately I'll tell you right now that I just roll my eyes when I see 'I'm no longer buying here' threads. People have this silly notion of David vs Goliath in their heads when it comes to business. Here's a newsflash - You're not David and the giant is not going to fall because you dared to speak out against it. You're not important, you're not valued, you're not loved and you're not respected. All they want from you is your money. That's all any business ever want from a client. Oh sure, they might make you believe that they care but blimey mate, do you honestly think someone lies awake at night somewhere in Utah and worries about that guy who threatened to stop buying? No! Instead they lie awake and think of the next big thing they can create to hook you in.

That's why I love DAZ. They don't hide the fact that all I am to them is $$$. I feel safe knowing that. :cheese:

From my perspective, enough people have complained “in different threads” about this issue, since the debut of the new website, to give it some significance and legitimacy. How many people would actually complain about it if everyone in the community participated in the forums I have no way of knowing. It could be just the tip of the ice burg or an ice cube.

I have to roll my eyes at your eye rolling. ;-) I was simply stating a fact. I am buying less content from the DAZ Store these days and one of the reasons is the lack of End Dates on sales, not to mention other lost product promotion tools and methods formerly employed by DAZ; which made it more likely I would be aware of and buy DAZ store product. I’m not stating this fact out of any emotional dislike for DAZ, nor do I wish DAZ any harm or disrespect. Nor did I say I had or threaten to stop buying from DAZ based on this one minor complaint. I simply wish to suggest possible changes for improving the customer experience in the DAZ store. There is no bullshit in this, though I can see how you might interpret it that way, and no real reason to roll your eyes. … roll your eyes if you wish, though. I do understand the point you are making about some of the complaining that goes on in the forums. I just wish you wouldn’t read all this extra baggage into my posts, but we don’t know each other, so it is in some way inevitable.

You had no way of knowing this, but I do full well realize that my post was kind of like David vs. Goliath. I do know the likelihood of anyone seeing my post to whom it will matter to and who can affect change is extremely remote at best. Yes, I am $$$ to DAZ. Yes, the Universe is unfair and uncaring. Doesn’t mean I can’t post an opinion anyway if I so feel like it. Hell, perhaps I may even learn something by posting my opinion.

Best regards.

Herald of Fire

As the world's foremost impulse buyer, sales work a little too well on me. If I see something I want, it's mine. Admittedly that's sale or no sale, but I won't deny that if torn between a choice between two, and one is on sale, the sale item goes in the basket. That said, I did make a concerted effort to ensure I bought the Young Teens on the release day because I knew there was going to be a significant discount for early birds. That, and I dearly wanted to get my hands on them from the minute I'd heard about it, but the sale certainly pushed the right buttons to guarantee the purchase.

Sale psychology won't work on everyone, but it really does work. There are literal reams of papers detailing the psyche of the average shopper so that retailers can maximize their sales. Love them or hate them, sometimes not having a sale end date is half the sale in itself.

mjc1016

I think that end dates are starting to crop up...the last newsletter had a specific end date (granted it was in fine print, at the bottom...but it was there...)

Something to the effect 'through January 27'...

Ah yes...the M5/H5 free deal...

"Take advantage of this extremely limited time offer and bring our most popular characters home with you today, for FREE! Offer ends Sunday night, January 27th." <===End Date!!!!!</p>

7th Stone Productions

Ooops! Breaking my word a little herein... after saying I wouldn't post anymore replies to this topic.

I'll be quick.

Yes, I've noticed that End Dates have been appearing in newsletters lately and I am grateful. However, I've also noticed that people still miss them, not because they are in fine print (which is an acceptable practice in my opinion) but because not everyone gets the newsletters. If a customer really wants to know a sale's end date they should be able to find it on their own without too much digging. This is one of the reasons why I would argue for listing the sale end dates in fine print on product pages.

Taoz

Harry Dresden said:

I hear you. That's a global thing though. It's as if governments all over the world got together at some point and said 'All people who owns a business must be rich and should therefore pay super super tax'.

High level employees also get punished this way. I pay 25% tax on my income. That's one quarter of my pay check gone every month. But then again, welcome to Africa. Lol. :lol:

Don't come to Denmark then, here everyone pay at least 35% of their income plus 25% tax on all goods. For a new car you pay 105-180% in taxes depending on the price, i.e. a $50.000 car may end up costing $125.000 after tax. Gasoline cost close to $8 per US gallon. About 200% tax on electricity. I could go on...

Zylox

mjc1016 said:

I think that end dates are starting to crop up...the last newsletter had a specific end date (granted it was in fine print, at the bottom...but it was there...)

Something to the effect 'through January 27'...

Ah yes...the M5/H5 free deal...

"Take advantage of this extremely limited time offer and bring our most popular characters home with you today, for FREE! Offer ends Sunday night, January 27th." <===End Date!!!!!</div>

I saw this and thought "Great, I can get Hiro 5 free!" Logged into my email account: nothing. Checked my junk mail: nothing. Looked in my deleted mail: January 21 PC newsletter and twenty gazillion notices that someone posted to a thread I viewed sometime in the last 10 years, but no recent newsletter. That's okay, Daz posts copies of their newsletters on the website, looked for it, then realized the new website doesn't seem to have that feature anymore...

I should get my newsletter on the 28th...

Could you please either point me to a copy of the newsletter or tell me the details of the offer?

Edit: Don't bother, just did a forum search. Apparently you have to buy a V5 bundle and I already have V5. Oh, well.

JasmineSkunk

Harry Dresden said:

It's not personal. That's the whole point. Of course a vendor is gonna faff and koo at you. They'd be silly not to. They want people to like them because as an extension of that you might just end up buying something. It's professional courtesy. It's the guy behind the counter at Wallmart asking you how your day was.

Of course people might now believe that I'm trying to say everyone who runs a business is a cold hear-ted faking monster. Not at all. They're pretty decent for a bunch of capitalists in fact. But don't kid yourself that you're any more special to them than the sound your money makes when it rolls into their pocket. Every product includes some basic support because they want you to buy their next product too. It's not good and it's not evil, it's just business. Knowing this for what it is can be quite liberating because you learn to make purchase choices not based on honeyed words but on quality and value for money. They want my money and I want quality and that's what makes the world go round. ;)

:)

Be careful, Harry... lol. Shooting the Messenger is Good Sport around here....