Animation and Compositing in Carrara?
Superdog
Posts: 765
I'm currently animating using DAZ Studio Pro 4.5 but I was wondering if Carrara 8 is a lot easier to animate with? I think the keyframing facilities of DAZ are pretty primitive and awkward to use compared to keyframing in other software such as video editors like Vegas Pro and Premier Pro.
One of the things I'd like to do is combine 3D modelling with film and green screen. I can do this to some extent in After Effects and Hitfilm 2 but is it possible to use Carrara 8 to composite in this way?
I also want to animate speaking parts but DS doesn't seem to handle this well since only Mimic Live works with Genesis. Does Carrara do this a lot better using Mimic Pro?
I want to use the Genesis figures so does Carrara 8 handle Genesis as well as DS?
Thanks for your advice in advance.
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Hi SuperDog :)
Yes.
In Carrara, you can load footage or an image, or Image sequence, and apply it to the backdrop, (which fit's the size of your camera output)
then you can add a plane, with a "Shadow-catcher" shader, and add your 3D figures to that backdrop with shadows (see pic)
As far as animating, Carrara has key-frames, motion path's, and Physics simulation.
you also have a range of animation "Tweeners" which handle the change from one key-frame to the next,.
For example,. pose a figure waving, and make two key-frames for the arm movement,. then select an Oscillate tweener and set a value for how many times that value should change between those two keys, and you have a figure waving several times within whose two keys.
Carrara also has a "graph editor" where you can get in deep for fine adjustments.
Currently only the "Beta" development version of Carrara 8.5 supports Genesis, Autofit, Smart content, and DUF format.
Carrara 8 was made and released before genesis was, so it doesn't support it.
hope it helps :)
I would add to what 3dage said about importing a background video. It's great for matching your lighting and camera angle, but I would still render it with an alpha channel and composite it with your background in your video editor of choice because you'll have more control and it would be easier to add additional elements.
I did this test with Carrara 7.2 Pro. I used my background footage in Carrara to match my camera angle, lighting and ground plane (with shadow catcher applied), but I rendered with an alpha channel and did the final composite in Final Cut Pro. Came in handy as I used a filter to add noise to the rendered elements to match the noise in the video footage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8puXTRXt7Y&feature=share&list=UU6wB1FKPN4DWpuoVsQY2o8Q
I totally agree 100% :)
compositing in a video editor gives you more abilities,.
I've been playing with the new "Element 3D" from Videocopilot,. and so far I'm really impressed.
I managed to export an M4 (animated OBJ sequence) and load it into After Effects using Element 3D,. although I'm still playing with it and haven't rendered anything worth showing here, but it's a ground breaking game changer as fas as I can see.
EP,... you should have a look at the example videos on www,videocopilot.net and check out the Metropolitan City pack, built for use in Element 3D
There are some issues with it (no ray-tracing), so objects dont reflect the things around them,. but you can use environment maps or even layers in AE,
I don't have AE unfortunately. Sounds cool though.
Thanks you both for your quick replies. I'm really tempted to upgrade to Carrara right now due to the discount. Is it cheaper if you're a Platinum member?
Concerning compositing, I like what you've done in the video evilproducer and think I'll do as you've done and model/animate in Carrara and then import this into Hitfilm 2/Vegas Pro. Did you import the film clip into Carrara first to set up the lighting and shadows correctly and then export the model into a compositing program and then load the film clip (to add effects etc.) for final rendering?
My main concern is getting the shadows looking relatively accurate and matching the lighting for both Carrara models and Vegas Pro film clips. I'm planning to have live green screened people interacting with modelled characters and want the artificial appearance this will create rather than realism but I'd like to get shadows and lighting spot on. I'm just hoping I'll be able to model in Carrara 8 and then composite externally so that everything looks like it's in the same environment.
The still shot looks great too 3DAGE. That's the kind of quality I'm aiming for in my animations. You say that Carrara has many more animation features for fine tuning than DAZ Studio but is editing keyframes easier to manage? I find the keyframe timeline in DAZ really clunky and after loading a number of figures it feels really difficult to manage. Perhaps that's the nature of 3D model animation but I hope the Carrara method is better laid out than DS.
Concerning Carrara 8.5, is it able to handle Genesis properly yet and is the final release on the horizon? Most of my content is Genesis you see.
I also have Element 3D and it's a great addition to AE but because I prefer editing in Vegas Pro I'm now hoping to use Hitfilm 2 for importing 3D models and compositing. Hitfilm 2 also has a lite version of Mocha for motion tracking. Do you know if it's possible to import the 3D Element models into Carrara? Their Metropolitan City pack looks very impressive and seems pretty cheap.
Although I've been editing video for a long time I'm quite new to 3D modelling (and compositing) and DAZ Studio seemed like a way in so I was hoping that if I bought Carrara 8 that would be the next step up rather than if I bought Poser Pro 2012. I can't afford Lightwave or the Autodesk stuff and Modo didn't seem as intuitive as DS (and hopefully Carrara) when I tried the demo. But my main reason for using DAZ products is the content because I don't plan on doing much modelling myself.
What I did was set my video clip as a backdrop and set Carrara to show the backdrop. I set the scene's time range to that of the background clip. This way, you can scrub through the timeline and accurately try and match your animation to whatever is going on in the background. I then made sure I was at the first frame and set my lights and such to match as best I could the lighting in my clip. I also matched as best I could the perspective of the ground plane.
I rendered the animation with an alpha channel which gave me a 2D movie with just the dinosaurs. I layered the dino clip over the original background clip in Final Cut Pro, added a couple of filters such as noise, blur and a color correction filter to better match the background video.
The ground plane and the animated grass both used shadow catchers. Not only do they appear transparent except for the shadows, but they act as a mask as well, so the grass in front of the dinosaurs actually takes it's color from the background plate. For standard definition it's a pretty neat trick and time saver. Not sure how it would work for hi-def.
It should also be mentioned, that Carrara can import cameras generated from motion tracking software such as SynthEyes, which is nice if you want to lock your computer animation to a background video where the camera moves. It's a bit beyond my price range at the moment, but it is getting cheaper year by year.
Thanks for explaining your workflow. That's how I'll work too. Concerning camera tracking do you know if it's possible to import Mocha cameras?
Sorry, I don't know if it's possible to import them. I would look at the software that you would use to create the camera and see if Carrara is listed as an export option.
There are people here that do use SynthEyes and the like and may be able to answer your question. It might work best to start a thread specifically for that, so as to get their attention. Another possible information source could be the Animation Forum.
I think Mocha is part of AE6,. so.. probably not,.. unless it exports out as a Syntheyes (syncar) format camera.
there are some much cheaper camera trackers like voodoo and Pixelfarm which can be used or converted into Syncar files.
As far as Animation functions and features in carrara, I've only scratched the surface.
Carrara has "Non Linear Animation" (NLA) which is a bit like Aniblocks in DS.
NLA clips can be placed into a single track or multiple layers, with different parts of the animation in those clips controlling different parts of a figure.
You can convert any Key-frame animation you make, into an NLA clip.
and convert the animation from any NLA clip back into key-frames in the timeline.
You should download the demo / 30 day trial version of Carrara 8 Pro from www,downloads.com
Try before you buy is always a god idea.
Here's a screen capture of the carrara timeline, showing the key-frames (black triangles) and the tweeners and NLA tracks.
Sorry, I don't know if it's possible to import them. I would look at the software that you would use to create the camera and see if Carrara is listed as an export option.
There are people here that do use SynthEyes and the like and may be able to answer your question. It might work best to start a thread specifically for that, so as to get their attention. Another possible information source could be the Animation Forum.
I did a search for Carrara Pro and Mocha Pro but there weren't any links. SynthEyes looks great but it's $599 (Pro version) and I already have Mocha Pro (upgraded during a sale) which works with AE and Hitfilm 2.
I wonder if it's possible to import Carrara animated 3D models into Hitfilm2 or AE/Element 3D?
You can import an "Animated OBJ sequence" into AE using Element 3D.
but bear in mind that each OBJ in the sequence is getting loaded, so it makes sense to work with short and simple clips, like a 30 frame walk or run.
Element 3D can loop that animation for as long as you need it,. and you can animate the position of the model using Element 3D's controls.
search for "Carrara" on www,downloads,com
Good to know that short animated OBJ sequences in 3D Element are possible but its probably easier with less cpu/gpu crunching to render a film clip of what I model in Carrara and import that into AE or Hitfilm 2.
I came across this video that uses motion tracking and green screen footage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO4hk_GfrEA
The advantages that Element 3D gives you, are several... and I'm still in the beginnings of exploring it
the big advantage is speed. as the GPU is rendering the model in openGL it's almost instant feedback when adjusting shaders.
It's a replicator and array system. so,. if you import a spaceship 3D model,. you can instantly make a fleet of spaceships, with different scaling and position offsets, and animate the position using controls within after effects,. and do it in "near" real time.
or,. you could load in a couple of different spaceships, add them to element 3D, and create flying space traffic, where each different ship is a "particle" within a group and there's a bunch of size, rotation, position and noise adjusters to create really complex scenes which would normally take much longer to render in a 3D program than in AE.
so, whether you load in some 3d buildings to create a city layout with different scaled buildings, or an animated figure to create a clone army,. is up to you, the advantage is that you see what you're getting in near real time, and
for animated objects, there's a bunch of animation adjustments which means that you can have each figure animated, starting at a different frame within the loop, and have different scaling and position offset to make it look more natural.
there's also an Animation engine to transform the "state" of one particle group, into another particle group.
So you could have a 3D (multi-part) model, which bursts into it's parts, then flies around and assembles into a different 3D model.
there are a bunch of example, tutorial / guide videos on Videocopilot.net which explains it's features.
it's not a replacement for compositing 3D footage and 2D footage, and it has it's limitations,
Yes, it drops from $199.50 to 119.70 with the Platinum Club. It is well worth spending $30 for the monthly membership to get the discount.
Edit: you also get a 30% discount on Mimic Pro and a $6 coupon that you can use on these.
I am very happy with Elements 3D and can only agree with everything said that it is worth checking it out.
The only problem I had so far when importing DAZ figures into Elements 3d is that currently Opacity / Translucency maps are not supported.
This means you will have some issues with the eyelashes that rely on transparency.
- A work around is to create some customized eyelashes for the figure in zbrush and export them the together with the figure.
- Another workaround is to just hide the eyelashes completly. If you are not making close ups noone will notice.
For clothing that relies on transparency you are out of luck but you will set up every material zone in Elements 3d manually anyway. So there are a lot of shader options to make it still look interesting.
it's not a replacement for compositing 3D footage and 2D footage, and it has it's limitations
Also very true. But when you have Elements 3D you have access to AE and PS anyway so those are probably the apps you will use to composite.
While Maya / Nuke / Fusion are in a total different price class the Adobe Creative Cloud gives acess to a lot of interesting AE plugins and add ons (check out all the Red Giant plugins as well) for post production and compositing.
Here an example how the shatter option in Elements 3D was used to shatter the M4 Cyborg to create a custom explosion effect and then composite everything together:
link to image on facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151422686628899&set=a.10151422686548899.539733.169292668898&type=1&theater;
- - -
Very interesting discussion. I've learnt a lot in this thread so far. I definitely think that compositing is an incredibly useful component of animation because it can reduce a lot of modelling work and rendering time if done effectively. In case anyone doesn't have AE/Element 3D or an NLE for video then if you're a Windows user Hitfilm 2 Ultimate is worth checking out because it combines a video editor, compositor, FX and 3D all in one application. It also has motion tracking via Mocha Lite. At $399 it costs a lot less than buying AE, Element 3D and a video editor separately.
http://hitfilm.com/
Hi linvanchene :)
You can export an OBJ "in it's pose" from any version of Carrara,.
There's no Automatic sequence export, but, since you're only exporting a short range of frames, it's not too much hassle to export each frame, making sure you've enabled (export with morphs and skinning) in the OBJ export dialogue.
Then all you do is name it and give it a number EG: model_01, Model_02 etc.
It can take a bit of time to load in the animated sequence, (load it through the Element 3D File menu / OBJ sequence) , rather than the big IMPORT button.
the lack of alpha channel support is a big drawback, but as you say, as long as it's not close enough to see, then you can get away with hiding the eyelash shader,.. it's no solution for long hair though,
I'm hoping that this is something which can be dealt with in a future version.
Yes, it drops from $199.50 to 119.70 with the Platinum Club. It is well worth spending $30 for the monthly membership to get the discount.
Edit: you also get a 30% discount on Mimic Pro and a $6 coupon that you can use on these.
I really should have done this but wondered whether I might have to wait for Platinum status to kick in and then miss the deal. If I make a Platinum monthly/yearly purchase will my account change immediately the payment has gone through? I still got 64% off and didn't spend an extra $30 so I can live with that for now.
I read quite a few recent threads that complained about the Platinum system being flaky with their Platinum status changing without warning or being billed even after cancelling a monthly account. I know it's OT but is Platinum worth it? The 30% discount might be good for Carrara plugins.
One also has to remember that elements 3D was more intended for particles with low poly count 100-10000.
Still I was able to also toss in objects with up to 1'000'000 polys into the scene. Even some crazy zbrush fiber hair...
But still I guess it pays off to use some form of a "decimator" that transforms high poly objects into low poly ones before sending them over.
I'm hoping that this is something which can be dealt with in a future version.
Lets hope the best. If one thing is sure it is that there will be future versions. Andrews team seems very busy working even after the 1.5 release.
I really should have done this but wondered whether I might have to wait for Platinum status to kick in and then miss the deal. If I make a Platinum monthly/yearly purchase will my account change immediately the payment has gone through? I still got 64% off and didn't spend an extra $30 so I can live with that for now.
I read quite a few recent threads that complained about the Platinum system being flaky with their Platinum status changing without warning or being billed even after cancelling a monthly account. I know it's OT but is Platinum worth it? The 30% discount might be good for Carrara plugins.
I think it is worth it. With a PC membership the sales regularly give you 50% - 70% savings on Daz originals and 80% - 90% savings on Platinum Club items. There can be problems with the PC, just as with everything else related to the store and forums here, but Daz is very good about making things right when you report a problem.
I really should have done this but wondered whether I might have to wait for Platinum status to kick in and then miss the deal. If I make a Platinum monthly/yearly purchase will my account change immediately the payment has gone through? I still got 64% off and didn't spend an extra $30 so I can live with that for now.
I read quite a few recent threads that complained about the Platinum system being flaky with their Platinum status changing without warning or being billed even after cancelling a monthly account. I know it's OT but is Platinum worth it? The 30% discount might be good for Carrara plugins.
I think it is worth it. With a PC membership the sales regularly give you 50% - 70% savings on Daz originals and 80% - 90% savings on Platinum Club items. There can be problems with the PC, just as with everything else related to the store and forums here, but Daz is very good about making things right when you report a problem.
Thanks, I might wait a bit to see if DAZ have a sale on the annual membership. They recently had a 30% sale on it which I should have taken advantage of at the time.
Any saving would depend on whether the cost of Carrara is the same as it is right now,... during any future offer for discounted Platinum club membership.
"Special" Sales happen all the time here, but it's less often that there's a discount for PC membership.
When I first found this place,.. I just purchased some things I thought I needed, .. like Victoria and Michael, and some clothes and textures,.. but not too many, ..(I am Scottish) :) . ..but then I started buying some of the "new" products, and the checkout kept telling me I could save money with the Platinum club membership.
so,.. I bit the bullet and joined,. and I didn't regret it.
I got a load of good content for really cheap prices.
The Platinum club has Weekly $1.99 items, and a weekly freebie, plus the 30% off regular products.
you'll also have access to the Platinum club archives of all the previous 1.99 items, and the "members only" forum
where there's the regular Weekly render challenge, (using the weekly items in a render contest). and access to a load of talented people, as well as new PC members.
With the option to join for a month,. that gives you at least 4 free items, plus four sets of 1.99 items.
As far as I'm aware,. the issues which some members have had are due to the new site, which is still being worked on.
but, as soon as you've purchased your membership, your account should change to show PC membership and the prices you see will change, and you'll have access to the members forum.
Thanks for explaining that. It sounds like a really good deal. Perhaps I should have done it sooner. The annual membership is cheaper than monthly so it might be a better option in the long run. I'll sleep on it.
That's a great package and Sony sometimes offer discounts too. Vegas Pro is the NLE I use because of the audio features, the intuitive interface (for me anyway) and instant results - no waiting for effects to render before a preview unlike Adobe video products. The Hitfilm 2 integration is pretty good too - I've only had a few crashes. As with all software demo it before buying. Both Sony and FXHome have 30 day no restriction demo's available.
If you need to supplement the powerful Vegas and Hitfilm combination then Boris FX and NewBlueFX sell Vegas plugins for keying (green screen). GenArts have Vegas plugins for particle FX and Red Giant MB Looks 2 (colour design) and Knoll Light Factory (light FX) work with Vegas too. There are quite a few other 3rd party plugins available now as well.
This guy Markus Rothkranz was using a much older version of Carrara, and look at the stuff he's done. It's a shame that, for some reason, his "Atomic City" TV Show pilot/trailer seems to be down - it was a great example of the great compositing he's done within Carrara. But a lot of the results are captured in his Gallery - and he has some really fun tutorials and experiments in there as well - have a browse and have some fun!
If you have the $100 for an annual membership, you will get more "bang for your buck" by starting with the monthly membership then switching to annual. If you get the monthly membership and then buy the annual renewal before the end of the month, you spend $.05 less and get 13 months of membership.
That's a great package and Sony sometimes offer discounts too. Vegas Pro is the NLE I use because of the audio features, the intuitive interface (for me anyway) and instant results - no waiting for effects to render before a preview unlike Adobe video products. The Hitfilm 2 integration is pretty good too - I've only had a few crashes. As with all software demo it before buying. Both Sony and FXHome have 30 day no restriction demo's available.
If you need to supplement the powerful Vegas and Hitfilm combination then Boris FX and NewBlueFX sell Vegas plugins for keying (green screen). GenArts have Vegas plugins for particle FX and Red Giant MB Looks 2 (colour design) and Knoll Light Factory (light FX) work with Vegas too. There are quite a few other 3rd party plugins available now as well.Me too, with the exception that I currently have very limited resources, so I looked into Sony's Home Studio HD Platinum, which includes Sound Forge and DVD Architect. Nowhere near as powerful as Vegas Pro, but is an excellent piece of software. I can't get over how intuitive the tools and interface are. They even incorporate tutorials that guide you in the software. Hard to explain, other than to say that they shoot up popups and arrows explaining what to do next. There's a bunch of 'em - and they're handy if you're not savvy to video editing softy, like me. I may never even need to go up to Vegas Pro. But if I need to upgrade, Sony Vegas Pro is my one and only choice at this point. Just love it.
Probably most of my video editing needs could be met by Home Studio. Sony offered Vegas Pro cheaply in a crossgrade sale from ACID Pro ages ago so I went for it. So far, the cost to upgrade to new versions have been very affordable. I don't think it's necessary to have Pro to edit great looking films. Sony have a product comparison page just in case anyone wants to compare features. There are now quite a few sub $150 video editing packages available from various developers that offer a lot of features. Vegas has excellent tutorial features - that's one thing Sony excels at. For me the no wait preview updates make editing super fast compared to other NLE's.
I'm looking through the Carrara content and plugins and, unless I'm mistaken, virtually none of it is DAZ or Platinum Club (no DAZ or PC signs under the products in the shop) so apart from Mimic Pro it doesn't seem worth joining up. That's a bit disappointing. I suppose it might be worth joining for the Genesis content.