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The Can or the Bottle

SummonerSummoner Posts: 82
edited December 1969 in The Commons

Today I closley read this part of the new Eula from Daz Productions.

Quote:
Physical images (3D-print, molded copy, CNC-routed copy, and the like) of Content or any art derived from the Content is permitted only by User’s purchase from DAZ, via the User’s online DAZ store account, permission to deliver User’s derived works (art), including necessary Content, to an entity that creates 3D-images in a physical medium. User may then deliver User’s art in file format to the 3rd-party to have physical images printed or created, up to the limitations set forth in the online DAZ Store delineated on the purchase page associated with the permission product. These limitations govern (i) personal and/or commercial use of the physical, printed images; and (ii) the quantity of 3-D printed images allowed


I now have allot of concerns abot this .
Lets take a sample , a simple one .... I buy a product from daz the package contains A house and appliances actually apliances that are Copies of things we use in our every day household.
I take the Bottle or the can and reproduce it does not matter how but I do !!! Now who has the right of that Bottle or the Can is it Daz because he made a copy of something that already existed and now just puts a Copyright on products that where in our every day use .
as for most I say most of things seen in Products bought here that are actually tenable things even reproductions of Attracts I wanna ask who is the real copyright holder and who has to be asked for tenable reproductions , does any of the creators for 3D models have to get a license to make a bottle or a Can ?
So my meaning is that this part cant hold and therefor for tenable reproduction no need to ask permission at Daz. else one day we will find that Daz Invented of the Can and the Bottle.

It sounds Like one who would say I invented Hot Water or Air and I want to be informed if anyone uses it .

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Comments

  • TheWheelManTheWheelMan Posts: 1,014
    edited December 1969

    That part may too vague, but you and I both know that you are stretching things to try to say that the clause in the EULA was intended for something so general. That's just going out of your way to make a mountain out of an obvious molehill.

  • JimmyC_2009JimmyC_2009 Posts: 8,891
    edited February 2013

    You are reading a lot into this that simply is not there.

    Taking your scenario, yes, DAZ would own the right to the Can or Bottle, but ONLY THAT CAN OR BOTTLE, not every one ever made.

    There is a very simple way for you to get around this. Get a 3D modelling package, and create your own mesh for a 3D Bottle or Can, and make as many 3D copies of it as you like, as long as it is your work.

    PS
    If I were you, I wouldn't try replicating a 'Coke' bottle, Coca-Cola seem to think they own the copyright to that :)

    EDIT
    XPost Wheelman, but I think we are on the same page :)

    Post edited by JimmyC_2009 on
  • McGyverMcGyver Posts: 7,050
    edited December 1969

    I invented Air™ and Hot Water™, but it's okay if you don't let me know when you use them... I started getting too many emails and phone calls about it so I decided it's not worth the trouble... and in case you look up the patents... I also invented Pooping™... Please read the EULA as it expressly indicates not to inform the inventor as to personal use of this product.
    Thank you.

  • TheWheelManTheWheelMan Posts: 1,014
    edited December 1969

    JimmyC_2009 said:
    You are reading a lot into this that simply is not there.

    Taking your scenario, yes, DAZ would own the right to the Can or Bottle, but ONLY THAT CAN OR BOTTLE, not every one ever made.

    There is a very simple way for you to get around this. Get a 3D modelling package, and create your own mesh for a 3D Bottle or Can, and make as many 3D copies of it as you like, as long as it is your work.

    PS
    If I were you, I wouldn't try replicating a 'Coke' bottle, Coca-Cola seem to think they own the copyright to that :)

    EDIT
    XPost Wheelman, but I think we are on the same page :)

    Thank you. I mean next thing you know Al Gore will be claiming to have invented the Internet...

  • FirstBastionFirstBastion Posts: 7,760
    edited December 1969

    Sure there are bottles in the real world, but the bottle that you got from DAZ was modeled from scratch in a modelling program by a PA, and it is really a 3D digital mesh that didn't exist until it was made to look like that bottle. And then it was textured. And then it was packaged, and then it was tested, and then it was put into a digital art zone store. It is a piece of intellectual property that looks like a bottle but it is something else entirely,

    If you make a copy of that piece of intellectual property or print it out with a new technology like 3D printing, then you need a license from DAZ to use it in that way. The old EULA gave you the license to use the 3D models you got from DAZ for 2D renders and 2D animation, and absolutely nothing else. The new EULA is adding a license for 3D printing but you will have to obtain an additional 3D printing license to have that privilege. Otherwise you are infringing on the copyrights and the intellectual property rights. This is legally binding.

    Now if you want to 3D print up a bottle with no strings attached, then learn a modelling program and create that bottle from scratch and then do whatever you want with it. Of course, if you can model in 3D it'll happen pretty easy, but if you can't, then you'll have to learn. But once you can model that bottle, at that point you might start to understand why PAs and DAZ are working to protect their intellectual property rights.

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited February 2013

    Point Blank and Straight up. It's this Simple and no need to try to make more of it than it is.

    The MESH of the Can or Bottle that was sold to Daz3D or sold by Daz3D for the Model creator is copyrighted. You can not copy the Mesh and use it freely. The Mesh sold here at Daz3D is copyrighted and any textures that go with it. Nothing more is implied or assumed by the EULA. Please just leave it at that.

    Lets not get into an IT COULD mean this too thing. Because it does not.

    Please join this thread which is covering this very topic.
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/16552/

    Post edited by Jaderail on
  • SummonerSummoner Posts: 82
    edited December 1969

    Well another Question for you , If as the products are sold Internationally and given Permission from Daz to reproduce things, allot of things are no toys and might fall into international Weapon Industries law as for he or the creator would claim a fee of reproduction and or taxes.
    so one prints Guns from Plans you creator made and you gave Permission.
    I guess there will be allot more to it then you think then just writing an Eula with the idea to get a piece of a the cake.
    it is in human nature not to think ahead but just at the moment when it comes to profit.
    well I am gonna love to see the first weapons with the DAZ Logo on them LOL.

    then the second thing why if the Eula has mentioned a part of international selling it is not translated in the different languages
    so that it is for all clear to understand.

  • LordHardDrivenLordHardDriven Posts: 937
    edited February 2013

    Jaderail said:
    Point Blank and Straight up. It's this Simple and no need to try to make more of it than it is.

    The MESH of the Can or Bottle that was sold to Daz3D or sold by Daz3D for the Model creator is copyrighted. You can not copy the Mesh and use it freely. The Mesh sold here at Daz3D is copyrighted and any textures that go with it. Nothing more is implied or assumed by the EULA. Please just leave it at that.

    Lets not get into an IT COULD mean this too thing. Because it does not.

    Please join this thread which is covering this very topic.
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/16552/

    Let's try to forget about the can/bottle because it's a hypothetical based on an individuals interpretation of the EULA but is not something explicitly covered by the EULA.

    Here's the bottomline, Daz updated the EULA to accomplish a few things such as the situation that arrises now that there are 3D printers in the world. For the most part the EULA is the same as it was. You couldn't buy a Daz product, make copies and then distribute it before, you still can't. When you buy a 3D model it is not yours, you are not buying the model, you are buying the right to use the model, period. Making copies of other people's work and then distributing them, whether for free or profit is copyright infringement, always has been and always will be, period.

    Now in their attempt to update things Daz used some unfortunate language, I'm not sure why or what they were thinking but they have realized it was wrong and either they've removed that part already or are going to in the near future if they haven't. That part being where they say if you don't agree to the EULA you have to delete all the products you've bought in the past. In my opinion they also made a huge mistake by blocking access to downloads and resetting downloads until you agree to the EULA. I feel it was that action that has brought about the concern by so many because in doing things that way it felt like they were forcing people to do something with the threat of blocking access to the things they purchased in the past and had legal right to use. Hopefully Daz has removed that as well. I can't tell because I already agreed to the EULA because as long as you're using Daz products in the way they've been intended for customers to use for years, there is nothing in the EULA to worry about.

    I must say though that Daz needs to learn to think things thru more carefully before implementing them and make a much better effort to avoid the types of blunders they've been having. Like the implementation of Genesis in a way that left Poser users feeling excluded, like implementing a buggy site after months of build up about how they're making sure it works right before they go live. This blunder they even did twice and then now this EULA thing which as near as I can tell is all because of this new downloader installer manager thing and that they are switching to zips over exes. I mean what's up with that and why? I've not seen a huge outcry from folks demanding a better way to download and install things, so why force this unasked for change on consumers and in a way that further alienates consumers?

    Post edited by LordHardDriven on
  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 14,045
    edited December 1969

    LordHardDriven said:
    I feel it was that action that has brought about the concern by so many because in doing things that way it felt like they were forcing people to do something with the threat of blocking access to the things they purchased in the past and had legal right to use. Hopefully Daz has removed that as well.

    That was an error and was fixed very quickly.

  • LordHardDrivenLordHardDriven Posts: 937
    edited December 1969

    Hades 65 said:
    Well another Question for you , If as the products are sold Internationally and given Permission from Daz to reproduce things, allot of things are no toys and might fall into international Weapon Industries law as for he or the creator would claim a fee of reproduction and or taxes.
    so one prints Guns from Plans you creator made and you gave Permission.
    I guess there will be allot more to it then you think then just writing an Eula with the idea to get a piece of a the cake.
    it is in human nature not to think ahead but just at the moment when it comes to profit.
    well I am gonna love to see the first weapons with the DAZ Logo on them LOL.

    then the second thing why if the Eula has mentioned a part of international selling it is not translated in the different languages
    so that it is for all clear to understand.

    I seriously doubt if you did a 3D print of a model of a gun it would work. If it were that simple I could do a 3D print of a light saber or a laser type gun and that would work too. Just because something looks like a real working device doesn't mean it is.

  • LordHardDrivenLordHardDriven Posts: 937
    edited December 1969

    Frank0314 said:
    LordHardDriven said:
    I feel it was that action that has brought about the concern by so many because in doing things that way it felt like they were forcing people to do something with the threat of blocking access to the things they purchased in the past and had legal right to use. Hopefully Daz has removed that as well.

    That was an error and was fixed very quickly.

    Okay good, like I said I couldn't check because I agreed to the EULA because I have nothing to fear from it and so I couldn't check to see if that had been corrected or not. Thanks for confirming that it was corrected.

  • TheKDTheKD Posts: 2,691
    edited December 1969

    To be honest, I couldn't care less about an EULA. If I had the urge to get a model printed into a life sized model, and had the funds to burn to do, I would simply do it. Seems weird to me, but there is some weird people out there LOL.

    http://www.odditycentral.com/news/man-decides-he-cant-get-a-real-woman-settles-for-realistic-looking-dolls.html

  • SummonerSummoner Posts: 82
    edited December 1969

    LordHardDriven said:
    Hades 65 said:
    Well another Question for you , If as the products are sold Internationally and given Permission from Daz to reproduce things, allot of things are no toys and might fall into international Weapon Industries law as for he or the creator would claim a fee of reproduction and or taxes.
    so one prints Guns from Plans you creator made and you gave Permission.
    I guess there will be allot more to it then you think then just writing an Eula with the idea to get a piece of a the cake.
    it is in human nature not to think ahead but just at the moment when it comes to profit.
    well I am gonna love to see the first weapons with the DAZ Logo on them LOL.

    then the second thing why if the Eula has mentioned a part of international selling it is not translated in the different languages
    so that it is for all clear to understand.

    I seriously doubt if you did a 3D print of a model of a gun it would work. If it were that simple I could do a 3D print of a light saber or a laser type gun and that would work too. Just because something looks like a real working device doesn't mean it is.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqzJlBcCsow

    As a sample

    I guess in the future there are gonna be More toys in 3D Daz
    Also for allot of people here it seems that 3D designs witch actually grew out of Programs for plans to create tenable Items
    has become tenable Virtual 3D even that actually it is supposed to be something to be able to create tenable Items at least a part of it.

  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    edited December 1969

    Frank0314 said:
    LordHardDriven said:
    I feel it was that action that has brought about the concern by so many because in doing things that way it felt like they were forcing people to do something with the threat of blocking access to the things they purchased in the past and had legal right to use. Hopefully Daz has removed that as well.

    That was an error and was fixed very quickly.
    It was not. Only the section about needing to delete old content if not agreeing was removed.

  • araneldonaraneldon Posts: 712
    edited December 1969

    Agent_Unawares said:
    It was not. Only the section about needing to delete old content if not agreeing was removed.

    Are you talking about the part where it says "EULA supersedes and replaces any license agreement that was or will be presented at the time of content installation" ?

    There are currently at least two different EULAs:

    This is presented automatically when accessing certain parts of the site
    This one is in the footer

  • Alethas FantasyAlethas Fantasy Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Hades 65 said:
    LordHardDriven said:
    Hades 65 said:
    Well another Question for you , If as the products are sold Internationally and given Permission from Daz to reproduce things, allot of things are no toys and might fall into international Weapon Industries law as for he or the creator would claim a fee of reproduction and or taxes.
    so one prints Guns from Plans you creator made and you gave Permission.
    I guess there will be allot more to it then you think then just writing an Eula with the idea to get a piece of a the cake.
    it is in human nature not to think ahead but just at the moment when it comes to profit.
    well I am gonna love to see the first weapons with the DAZ Logo on them LOL.

    then the second thing why if the Eula has mentioned a part of international selling it is not translated in the different languages
    so that it is for all clear to understand.

    I seriously doubt if you did a 3D print of a model of a gun it would work. If it were that simple I could do a 3D print of a light saber or a laser type gun and that would work too. Just because something looks like a real working device doesn't mean it is.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqzJlBcCsow

    As a sample

    I guess in the future there are gonna be More toys in 3D Daz
    Also for allot of people here it seems that 3D designs witch actually grew out of Programs for plans to create tenable Items
    has become tenable Virtual 3D even that actually it is supposed to be something to be able to create tenable Items at least a part of it.

    Thanks "Hades 65" for the You Tube on Make a Working GUN using a 3D Printer! 100% Legal.

    Now I know what it means 3D print, That is Amaxing that you can make a real shooting gun with a Printer.
    Very Interesting. ;)

  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    edited February 2013

    araneldon said:
    Agent_Unawares said:
    It was not. Only the section about needing to delete old content if not agreeing was removed.

    Are you talking about the part where it says "EULA supersedes and replaces any license agreement that was or will be presented at the time of content installation" ?

    There are currently at least two different EULAs:

    This is presented automatically when accessing certain parts of the site
    This one is in the footer


    I am indeed. That, along with the fact they're attempting to force users to agree to it before they'll allow them access to old purchases [unless that's changed VERY recently]. One or the other on their own wouldn't have bothered me.

    And excellent catch on the multiple EULAs; the one I've been referring to [and the one I bought all my products under, as it was the one presented on the site at the time of sale] they recently caught and replaced. Apparently they've had three versions live for a while. XD

    EDIT: That may be the other one. So possibly only two versions, but still amusing.

    Post edited by agent unawares on
  • LordHardDrivenLordHardDriven Posts: 937
    edited December 1969

    TheKD said:
    To be honest, I couldn't care less about an EULA. If I had the urge to get a model printed into a life sized model, and had the funds to burn to do, I would simply do it. Seems weird to me, but there is some weird people out there LOL.

    http://www.odditycentral.com/news/man-decides-he-cant-get-a-real-woman-settles-for-realistic-looking-dolls.html

    Those dolls aren't quite the same thing and I don't think 3D print has come far enough to make similar dolls with a 3D printer.

  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    edited December 1969

    Alethas Fantasy said:
    Hades 65 said:
    LordHardDriven said:
    Hades 65 said:
    Well another Question for you , If as the products are sold Internationally and given Permission from Daz to reproduce things, allot of things are no toys and might fall into international Weapon Industries law as for he or the creator would claim a fee of reproduction and or taxes.
    so one prints Guns from Plans you creator made and you gave Permission.
    I guess there will be allot more to it then you think then just writing an Eula with the idea to get a piece of a the cake.
    it is in human nature not to think ahead but just at the moment when it comes to profit.
    well I am gonna love to see the first weapons with the DAZ Logo on them LOL.

    then the second thing why if the Eula has mentioned a part of international selling it is not translated in the different languages
    so that it is for all clear to understand.

    I seriously doubt if you did a 3D print of a model of a gun it would work. If it were that simple I could do a 3D print of a light saber or a laser type gun and that would work too. Just because something looks like a real working device doesn't mean it is.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqzJlBcCsow

    As a sample

    I guess in the future there are gonna be More toys in 3D Daz
    Also for allot of people here it seems that 3D designs witch actually grew out of Programs for plans to create tenable Items
    has become tenable Virtual 3D even that actually it is supposed to be something to be able to create tenable Items at least a part of it.

    Thanks "Hades 65" for the You Tube on Make a Working GUN using a 3D Printer! 100% Legal.

    Now I know what it means 3D print, That is Amaxing that you can make a real shooting gun with a Printer.
    Very Interesting. ;)
    We're getting closer and closer to something resembling a replicator, eh? I imagine within a few centuries people will have these things in their houses and companies will only sell licenses/blueprints [along with a massive boom in both price and sales of handcrafted items].

  • LordHardDrivenLordHardDriven Posts: 937
    edited February 2013

    Hades 65 said:
    LordHardDriven said:
    Hades 65 said:
    Well another Question for you , If as the products are sold Internationally and given Permission from Daz to reproduce things, allot of things are no toys and might fall into international Weapon Industries law as for he or the creator would claim a fee of reproduction and or taxes.
    so one prints Guns from Plans you creator made and you gave Permission.
    I guess there will be allot more to it then you think then just writing an Eula with the idea to get a piece of a the cake.
    it is in human nature not to think ahead but just at the moment when it comes to profit.
    well I am gonna love to see the first weapons with the DAZ Logo on them LOL.

    then the second thing why if the Eula has mentioned a part of international selling it is not translated in the different languages
    so that it is for all clear to understand.

    I seriously doubt if you did a 3D print of a model of a gun it would work. If it were that simple I could do a 3D print of a light saber or a laser type gun and that would work too. Just because something looks like a real working device doesn't mean it is.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqzJlBcCsow

    As a sample

    I guess in the future there are gonna be More toys in 3D Daz
    Also for allot of people here it seems that 3D designs witch actually grew out of Programs for plans to create tenable Items
    has become tenable Virtual 3D even that actually it is supposed to be something to be able to create tenable Items at least a part of it.

    I'm not saying you can't make a working gun with a 3D printer. I'm saying you can't make a working gun with a 3D printer using a model of a gun one might buy from Daz. The difference in the video is a model is made of each part in an actual gun and then the parts are printed and assembled into a working gun. A model of a gun bought at Daz would not have all of the necessary working internal parts to make a working gun. For 3D models the way artists use them, it only need look like a real gun on the outside. A render of a gun does not require the insides of the gun to be accurate in detail.

    Post edited by LordHardDriven on
  • TheKDTheKD Posts: 2,691
    edited December 1969

    Darn, my hopes and dreams of printing out an army of Freak 5s and taking over the world has been destroyed. I was gonna have a harem of V5's too :P

  • LordHardDrivenLordHardDriven Posts: 937
    edited February 2013

    TheKD said:
    Darn, my hopes and dreams of printing out an army of Freak 5s and taking over the world has been destroyed. I was gonna have a harem of V5's too :P

    I'm not saying it can't happen, just that I don't think we're quite there yet. As far as I know the output of these 3D printers would be better suited to printing something more like a mannequin. Those dolls are soft and flexible and I think they even have a skeleton of sorts.

    Post edited by LordHardDriven on
  • Alethas FantasyAlethas Fantasy Posts: 0
    edited February 2013

    Agent_Unawares, Your probably right. lol

    The KD My Bubble Busted also but plans with one of the good looken' Guy Models. Tee Hee

    Where's the roll over belly laughing Smilie ?

    Post edited by Alethas Fantasy on
  • Alethas FantasyAlethas Fantasy Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Off topic a bit, but I would like to know,

    Is your Render of several product as a pic. say like in Rendo Gallery, or just products Render, Share CG OK to give a way or at DeviantArt to sell?
    Also to make a tube of any Render for Photoshop, Printshop, etc. OK to give away as Free, or to sell as they do in the Tubes stores for years?

    Thanks

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    LordHardDriven said:
    A model of a gun bought at Daz would not have all of the necessary working internal parts to make a working gun. For 3D models the way artists use them, it only need look like a real gun on the outside. A render of a gun does not require the insides of the gun to be accurate in detail.

    Exactly...nor would, for artistic purposes, you actually want a 100% accurately detailed, down to the last thread on the last screw model. It would be too 'expensive' to actually render. Way too much unneeded geometry that will need to be textured and calculated into the render. Just because it can't be seen in the render, doesn't mean it is not factored in, when rendering. Unless geometry is purposefully excluded (set invisible/removed) it's figured in...so that means it's lit, textured and shadows are calculated for it...and so are things like bump/displacement and specularity and everything else.

  • SummonerSummoner Posts: 82
    edited December 1969

    Well actually I agree with you you cant , but fact is that reproduction might be made out of different products , so in first hand for a printing as claimed you would need allot of approvals , then it is also if only a part is provided to create the product , when the day comes to make a good Print the creator will then also put more details to hes design as he runs with the flow and wants to have also a chunk of that cake :) he will even place a sample of the possibility to make hes 3D design tenable , believe me it is not far away.
    In or Neutral country they got hit many times on there fingers in Industries as it is Illegal to even sell a Part or a Plan witch could be used in weaponry to other countries.
    so to say if an Industry was caught to sell only a part that was used in weapons they gotten hit pretty hard.
    It is like A chip that could be used for guided weapons as a part of a whole the reseller will be watched very closely.
    I would rather say when it comes to such things it is not the thought ... oooh how can I make a gain , but to think a little of the consequences and leave things as they where before to avoid to get in a whole lots of trouble.

  • LordHardDrivenLordHardDriven Posts: 937
    edited December 1969

    Alethas Fantasy said:
    Off topic a bit, but I would like to know,

    Is your Render of several product as a pic. say like in Rendo Gallery, or just products Render, Share CG OK to give a way or at DeviantArt to sell?
    Also to make a tube of any Render for Photoshop, Printshop, etc. OK to give away as Free, or to sell as they do in the Tubes stores for years?

    Thanks

    As long as the model itself can't be extracted then yes you can give away or sell the things you create using the model.

  • LordHardDrivenLordHardDriven Posts: 937
    edited February 2013

    Hades 65 said:
    Well actually I agree with you you cant , but fact is that reproduction might be made out of different products , so in first hand for a printing as claimed you would need allot of approvals , then it is also if only a part is provided to create the product , when the day comes to make a good Print the creator will then also put more details to hes design as he runs with the flow and wants to have also a chunk of that cake :) he will even place a sample of the possibility to make hes 3D design tenable , believe me it is not far away.
    In or Neutral country they got hit many times on there fingers in Industries as it is Illegal to even sell a Part or a Plan witch could be used in weaponry to other countries.
    so to say if an Industry was caught to sell only a part that was used in weapons they gotten hit pretty hard.
    It is like A chip that could be used for guided weapons as a part of a whole the reseller will be watched very closely.
    I would rather say when it comes to such things it is not the thought ... oooh how can I make a gain , but to think a little of the consequences and leave things as they where before to avoid to get in a whole lots of trouble.

    Well I'm not sure if I agree fully with what you're saying as it pertains to the idea of a gun but the concept you're expressing of how the ability to print 3D objects may change the nature of licensing in the future, I guess I can agree with that. At this point though and as it pertains to the EULA in question it's really unrelated.

    Post edited by LordHardDriven on
  • Alethas FantasyAlethas Fantasy Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Thank you LordHardDriven

    For the Info. I do not sell but do have 1 pic. I did do up at Rendo Gallery.
    Dunt wont to get in any law suite over it. lol

  • LordHardDrivenLordHardDriven Posts: 937
    edited December 1969

    Alethas Fantasy said:
    Thank you LordHardDriven

    For the Info. I do not sell but do have 1 pic. I did do up at Rendo Gallery.
    Dunt wont to get in any law suite over it. lol

    I think you're safe. :)

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