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  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited February 2013

    wendy♥catz said:
    how do WE go about getting it done?

    think it is kinda up to Daz %-P

    all we do here is keep the Mods occupied.
    (and keep me entertained waiting for my render to finish)

    Yes, it is quite apparent you don't know how to motivate a company to do something.

    Hint it has nothing to do with rainbows, care bears, or lol cats. And no amount of absurd whimsy will fix a program bug or add a new feature.

    Post edited by ManStan on
  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 2,247
    edited December 1969

    10 more days and no carrara saving announcement yet. And honestly, I don’t expect one.

    I don't recall the announcement about the announcement stating which year - or century, for that matter:)

  • Design AcrobatDesign Acrobat Posts: 459
    edited December 1969

    Carrara even without any improvements is a fine program. Setting a scene is a joy and easy to do, one just have to come up with a concept. It helps, I suppose that I create almost 100% of my own models, that keeps me occupied. It also helps that I've learned other software that helps me to get where I want to go if for no other reason than my own entertainment.

    To me, it's the journey.

  • TigrestripeTigrestripe Posts: 65
    edited December 1969

    Design Acrobat said:
    Carrara even without any improvements is a fine program. Setting a scene is a joy and easy to do, one just have to come up with a concept. It helps, I suppose that I create almost 100% of my own models, that keeps me occupied. It also helps that I've learned other software that helps me to get where I want to go if for no other reason than my own entertainment.

    To me, it's the journey.

    Well spoken. That would pretty much sum it up for me as well except for the other software part and creating 100% of my own models. I'm slowly getting there.

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,200
    edited December 1969

    ManStan said:
    wendy♥catz said:
    how do WE go about getting it done?

    think it is kinda up to Daz %-P

    all we do here is keep the Mods occupied.
    (and keep me entertained waiting for my render to finish)

    Yes, it is quite apparent you don't know how to motivate a company to do something.

    Hint it has nothing to do with rainbows, care bears, or lol cats. And no amount of absurd whimsy will fix a program bug or add a new feature.
    . . . . . and you do Stan?


    you mean this is working??

  • TigrestripeTigrestripe Posts: 65
    edited December 1969

    ManStan said:
    wendy♥catz said:
    how do WE go about getting it done?

    think it is kinda up to Daz %-P

    all we do here is keep the Mods occupied.
    (and keep me entertained waiting for my render to finish)

    Yes, it is quite apparent you don't know how to motivate a company to do something.

    Hint it has nothing to do with rainbows, care bears, or lol cats. And no amount of absurd whimsy will fix a program bug or add a new feature.

    Perhaps, instead of people whinging in the forums it would be best for everyone to plaster a bunch of emails to DAZ asking what's going on. They just might get tired of deleting emails and someone in a official capacity would come in here to make a statement.

    I can agree with you on many things but after all this time would it not be better to just let DAZ proceed on their meandering course and lack of reasonable communication.

    Well, anyway... Futility doesn't mean shiny new car.

  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I had a rather length post here, then thought "why am I wasting any more of my time on this"? DAZ is never going to change and is going to continue to alienate and run off carrara users. At this rate the only people left using carrara by the time C8.5 is finally{if ever} released is going to be the cheer-leading squad,

  • bighbigh Posts: 8,147
    edited December 1969

    ManStan said:
    I had a rather length post here, then thought "why am I wasting any more of my time on this"? DAZ is never going to change and is going to continue to alienate and run off carrara users. At this rate the only people left using carrara by the time C8.5 is finally{if ever} released is going to be the cheer-leading squad,

    o come on - more then that :roll:

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Posts: 376
    edited December 1969

    What we really need for situations like this is a pitchfork smiley. Charge! :vampire:

  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    bigh said:
    ManStan said:
    I had a rather length post here, then thought "why am I wasting any more of my time on this"? DAZ is never going to change and is going to continue to alienate and run off carrara users. At this rate the only people left using carrara by the time C8.5 is finally{if ever} released is going to be the cheer-leading squad,

    o come on - more then that :roll:

    Ok, the cheerleading squad plus one.

    Seriously though, how many carrara users from 2 years ago do you still see in the forums today? Where are some of the great people I used to argue with all the time?

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,549
    edited December 1969

    If you need a content-friendly 3d render/animation application, but can't use Carrara, What else is there? There are more out there - but Carrara is the easiest to use, handles more junk in a scene without dropping nuts, and renders faster than any of its competitors.

    Carrara = 3d art made easier. Plain and simple.
    In the market you may, however, find software that's better at:
    * Modeling - Carrara has excellent vertex, spline and metaball modelers. Rumor has it that their tools are behind the times. I don't pay attention to the times, but I really like modeling in Carrara - to each their own, I guess.

    * Dynamic Cloth - Yup. Carrara just ain't there yet on this one.

    Let's see, what else... um... okay unbiased rendering is, well, debatable... hmmmm I really like Carrara's speedy ray tracer. Okay scratch that. Vue's landscaping... maybe. I don't know about that, though. Let's see... ease of use? No... Carrara's friendly interface has that down solid in the content friendly apps department... Animation is easier in Carrara, too... hmmmm

    Okay, I'll have to get back to you for further things that Carrara might possibly be beaten in.

  • bighbigh Posts: 8,147
    edited December 1969

    ManStan said:
    bigh said:
    ManStan said:
    I had a rather length post here, then thought "why am I wasting any more of my time on this"? DAZ is never going to change and is going to continue to alienate and run off carrara users. At this rate the only people left using carrara by the time C8.5 is finally{if ever} released is going to be the cheer-leading squad,

    o come on - more then that :roll:

    Ok, the cheerleading squad plus one.

    Seriously though, how many carrara users from 2 years ago do you still see in the forums today? Where are some of the great people I used to argue with all the time?

    I know - but we do have the ...........:cheese:

  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited February 2013

    Dartanbeck do you really need me to put up the rather lengthy list of missing features, bugged features, and just plane weaknesses of carrara?

    Post edited by ManStan on
  • WoolyloachWoolyloach Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Meh.

    Blender: free, content-unfriendly, artist-hostile.
    Carrara: Affordable, content-friendly, easy to use, support questionable.
    Poser: Affordable, content-friendly, easy to use, no modeling tools.
    Strata 3D: Pretty affordable, content-unfriendly, comprehensive, small but vocal user base, hooks into Adobe software easily.
    Lightwave: Somewhat costly, content-unfriendly, comprehensive and powerful.
    3D Studio Max: Pretty expensive, powerful, complex, content-unfriendly.
    Maya: Expensive, top of the line, content-unfriendly but if you need Maya you probably don't care.
    Houdini: unaffordable, takes rocket scientist to understand, content-unfriendly, worlds best 3D VFX software. Did I mention unaffordable?

  • araneldonaraneldon Posts: 712
    edited December 1969

    Woolyloach said:

    Blender: free, content-unfriendly, artist-hostile.

    What does "artist-hostile" mean?
  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Woolyloach said:
    Meh.

    Blender: free, content-unfriendly, artist-hostile.
    Carrara: Affordable, content-friendly, easy to use, support questionable.
    Poser: Affordable, content-friendly, easy to use, no modeling tools.
    Strata 3D: Pretty affordable, content-unfriendly, comprehensive, small but vocal user base, hooks into Adobe software easily.
    Lightwave: Somewhat costly, content-unfriendly, comprehensive and powerful.
    3D Studio Max: Pretty expensive, powerful, complex, content-unfriendly.
    Maya: Expensive, top of the line, content-unfriendly but if you need Maya you probably don't care.
    Houdini: unaffordable, takes rocket scientist to understand, content-unfriendly, worlds best 3D VFX software. Did I mention unaffordable?

    Ya that pretty well sums it up don't it.

  • pscammp_2e78c43842pscammp_2e78c43842 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Woolyloach said:
    Meh.

    Houdini: unaffordable, takes rocket scientist to understand, content-unfriendly, worlds best 3D VFX software. Did I mention unaffordable?

    And then cometh

    Hitfilm 2 Ultimate

    http://hitfilm.com/

  • wetcircuitwetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    araneldon said:
    Woolyloach said:

    Blender: free, content-unfriendly, artist-hostile.

    What does "artist-hostile" mean?

    I'm not a Blenderhead, but usually "artist hostile" means the interface was built around features and functions, rather than workflow.
  • FenricFenric Posts: 351
    edited December 1969

    pscammp said:
    Woolyloach said:
    Meh.

    Houdini: unaffordable, takes rocket scientist to understand, content-unfriendly, worlds best 3D VFX software. Did I mention unaffordable?

    And then cometh

    Hitfilm 2 Ultimate

    http://hitfilm.com/

    Another NLA/Compositing tool? It imports OBJ, LWO, and 3DS.... that would be "content unfriendly". $399, so the price isn't bad, and looks like it has a fairly nice suite of basic effects plus a built-in particle simulator. Standard drak blue-grey "modern graphics program" look and feel. It gets the same "no modeller" downvote that Poser does.

    And the list forgets Shade, which keeps tempting me.

  • araneldonaraneldon Posts: 712
    edited December 1969

    Well it's a matter of taste. The simplicity of Carrara's interface is great in the beginning but beyond that it sometimes gets in the way, and there's hardly anything that can be changed. Blender's interface is very open to customization, but of course it takes some effort to get to know.

    (Which is not to say that Carrara's interface is bad or worse than Blender's. I just disagree with the artist-unfriendly bit. Please, no beatings, kkthx?)

  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I tend to agree araneldon. When I first started using carrara I loved the UI, it seemed to be teaching me how to use it simply by using it. But it gets complex for me fast when I try to do more elaborate things. And some parts just confuse the hell out of me. Took 3 years and a lot of help from 3dage to figure out the particle emitters. And I am still all thumbs with NLA.

    One of things I harp on is how easy it is to make a morph using studio/Hex as compared to how convoluted it seems in carrara. I've said for a while that studio is a great support app for carrara, and making character morphs is one of the reasons.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,549
    edited February 2013

    ManStan said:
    Dartanbeck do you really need me to put up the rather lengthy list of missing features, bugged features, and just plane weaknesses of carrara? Sure. But before you do, I'm more interested in your recommendation of another app that can do everything that Carrara Pro can do, better than what Carrara Pro can do, without additional plugins or coding. Especially one that is not missing the feature from such a list, lacks the weaknesses from the list, and has the bugged features minus the bugs.
    Even if it's more expensive. I'd like to see this marvel. If you can do that, then I'll look at your list. Until then, I'll simply consider the question to be rhetoric.
    Before wasting any of your time on that, however, know that I have been here since 2007, and have been following what you consider to be issues. I agree with many of them. Or at least some of them. All I was saying in that post that upset you, is that many applications cough blood when you try to give them anywhere near the options you get with Carrara. It's quite the unique suite. Most users find it surprisingly stable.
    Caveat: I am not disagreeing with or contesting the fact that Carrara has its issues. I am saying that I feel Carrara to be superior to anything else that attempts to give its enormous list of features in a single, easy to use and stable application. But I truthfully don't know of any others.

    You've used your Jeep as an analogy, here's mine:
    My stone chisels have very few features and the only options are those implemented by the user. They're perfect. My paint brushes have very few features and the only options are those implemented by the user. They're perfect. Carrara Pro has multitudes of features and options so numerous it's likely that I'll never discover them all. Although it may not be perfect, I'll not wait for it to change, nor will I make any silly demands upon those who have already made it as nice as it is. That's all. No cheer leading, no hype, just the truth of the matter.
    Caveat: I am not disagreeing with or contesting the fact that Carrara has its issues. I am saying that I feel Carrara to be superior to anything else that attempts to give its enormous list of features in a single, easy to use and stable application. But I truthfully don't know of any others.
    Post edited by Dartanbeck on
  • 3drendero3drendero Posts: 2,024
    edited February 2013

    Fenric said:

    And the list forgets Shade, which keeps tempting me.

    Shade 13 Pro costs 750$, ouch.
    Pro is needed to render above 4000x4000, get all import formats, network rendering and many other more or less needed functions.
    Supports Poser though.
    http://www.mirye.net/compare-shade-13-versions

    C8Pro is 171$ for PC members.

    Post edited by 3drendero on
  • FenricFenric Posts: 351
    edited December 1969

    3drendero said:
    Fenric said:

    And the list forgets Shade, which keeps tempting me.

    Shade 13 Pro costs 750$, ouch.
    Pro is needed to render above 4000x4000, get all import formats, network rendering and many other more or less needed functions.
    Supports Poser though.
    http://www.mirye.net/compare-shade-13-versions

    C8Pro is 171$ for PC members.

    Didn't say Shade was cheap, I said it was missing. He missed Cinema 4D, too, for that matter. And that list had some really heavy hitters on it: Poser Pro is $499, Lightwave is $999, C4D Studio is $3495 (Carrara still counts as a "sidegrade"), 3DStudio Max and Maya are $3500, and Houdini is $4495

    It's REALLY hard to beat Carrara's price-point. Even if you add in every existing plugin from every vendor, you're only going to be up to Poser Pro's price.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,549
    edited December 1969

    Fenric said:
    3drendero said:
    Fenric said:

    And the list forgets Shade, which keeps tempting me.

    Shade 13 Pro costs 750$, ouch.
    Pro is needed to render above 4000x4000, get all import formats, network rendering and many other more or less needed functions.
    Supports Poser though.
    http://www.mirye.net/compare-shade-13-versions

    C8Pro is 171$ for PC members.

    Didn't say Shade was cheap, I said it was missing. He missed Cinema 4D, too, for that matter. And that list had some really heavy hitters on it: Poser Pro is $499, Lightwave is $999, C4D Studio is $3495 (Carrara still counts as a "sidegrade"), 3DStudio Max and Maya are $3500, and Houdini is $4495

    It's REALLY hard to beat Carrara's price-point. Even if you add in every existing plugin from every vendor, you're only going to be up to Poser Pro's price.And not one of those would make a suitable substitute for someone looking for something like Carrara. Something that can do what Carrara Pro does right out of the box without any plugins.

  • GarstorGarstor Posts: 1,411
    edited December 1969

    Dartanbeck said:
    And not one of those would make a suitable substitute for someone looking for something like Carrara. Something that can do what Carrara Pro does right out of the box without any plugins.

    I think you are a bit hasty here. Near as I can tell; you are dismissing LightWave, Maya, Houdini, etc. simply because they don't play nice with the DAZ Content.

    As the OP noted (really funny post BTW), if you are getting Maya you likely don't care about Content.

    I love the DAZ Content. But if LW played nicely with it...I gotta confess...I'd probably ditch Carrara. For the time being, I am very happy with both of them though.

    8 more days for some magical announcement... ;) (just keeping us focused on the original topic!)

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,549
    edited December 1969

    Garstor said:
    Near as I can tell; you are dismissing LightWave, Maya, Houdini, etc. simply because they don't play nice with the DAZ Content.Absolutely. That's got to be one of Carrara's biggest draws! Comparing Maya's modeling capabilities alone to Carrara's is an entirely different matter than comparing their intentional uses, for example. My point was that having ALL of Carrara's capabilities under one, quite stable roof, is a feat all to itself! Adding more functions and features to a collection already so rich has its complications. That's my point, exactly.
    Garstor said:
    As the OP noted (really funny post BTW), if you are getting Maya you likely don't care about Content.
    And that was one of my points as well, back a ways. Some people, who are mistakenly reading into Carrara's supposed 'faults', rather than figuring out how to work effectively and efficiently within such a powerful piece of software, they're actually looking towards the purchase of 3ds max and/or Maya simply to improve their rendering capabilities - which is a costly mistake - as Maya would get a headache trying to run a copy of Genesis. again, a simple-minded example. (I do have a rather simple mind, you know)

    I love the DAZ Content. But if LW played nicely with it...I gotta confess...I'd probably ditch Carrara. For the time being, I am very happy with both of them though.See what I mean? That's a big "if". But it doesn't. Luckily for you, you're still happy - mainly due to your ability to expand and overcome - your high IQ doesn't hurt either. But now imagine if you fell head first into the example trap I've mentioned above. You'd be out a good investment of software that's beautifully rich in it's own way - but not as a good replacement for Carrara. That's exactly my point - I'm not a hasty little guy! Well not all of the time.

    I'm buying a bunch of modelers, filters and post work tools within the next week. Not one of them will replace Carrara in my work flow. But they will enhance it. Some of the things people try to make Carrara do are simply unfair to the software. Some are not, and are things that the developers will want to work towards perfecting in the future. I'm not cheer leading, I'm not saying that Carrara would make an adequate replacement for any of those above-named software offerings. But it certainly IS a perfect replacement for those who want to keep some extent of modeling capabilities while gaining great content support! :)

  • thoromyrthoromyr Posts: 452
    edited December 1969

    Dartanbeck said:
    Garstor said:
    Near as I can tell; you are dismissing LightWave, Maya, Houdini, etc. simply because they don't play nice with the DAZ Content.
    Absolutely. That's got to be one of Carrara's biggest draws!

    That's basically why I use it. I started on blender, but if I had to model for what I do... I'd never get anything done. I *can* model, but I don't have the time to develop the skill to make models to the quality I want. I'd rather be rendering scenes I imagine. Poser just doesn't cut if for me and DS wasn't (and isn't) really a consideration.

    The bugs are certainly annoying. The limitations are likewise annoying. And maybe I'm just too old and easily dazzled, but I'm amazed by what *can* be done and love it. And, when it gets to be too much (like the recent issues with dynamic hair and volumetrics I encountered) I've always got Groboto. Very different from "normal" 3d software and fun in its own way.

  • RarethRareth Posts: 1,462
    edited December 1969

    I like Carrara, I need to spend more time with it and get better with it,

    I like how easy it is to set up a scene,
    I like the bullet physics (have a ball and chain avi I made floating around my harddrive here somewhere)
    softbody could use some work, but I can drape a cloth on something and it looks great.
    The texture room is easy to use.
    it has a ton of features I've poked at, at one time or another.
    and it renders fairly quickly.

    I just don't like the modeling side of Cararra, it doesn't click with me. and Hex crashes on me more often than not.

    got the free trial of C4D to play with, nice interace, price for the studio version was way out of my reach
    played with the free trail of lightwave but for some reason it didn't click.

    Got Modo to try and I dunno, it clicks.. modeling is easy not exactly dancing for joy over the interface but it is configurable.
    its got some quirks, and one or two things I don't like.. but it has Bullet physics and does softbody very well. and like I said, for me
    modeling in it is easy.

  • HeadwaxHeadwax Posts: 9,987
    edited December 1969

    Hey, I've beeen away for three weeks , what did I miss? :)

    Did we get to play a guessing game yet?

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