I don't get the logic...

jeffbdvs

...behind some/many of the artist's categorizations of their props, scenes, sets and so on when they package up their work as smart content.

For example, Celestial Pool has one complete preload file that is labeled on the icon as a "Set" and to me that makes sense. But then all of the individual items that make up the set like the ivy, the grass and the planted pot are each labeled as "Set" as well. That doesn't make sense to me. Why would an artist label things that are essentially props as sets?

In Baroque Grandeur, many preload files are labeled as "Scenes", but most of them only load a part of the entire scene -- the rug and lights, the small table and chairs, even the chandelier. Why choose "Scenes" instead of "Presets" or "Sets" or something else?

And what logic might drive an artist to decide that their big props and model sections labeled as Scenes or Sets or Props should be initially categorized as Environments instead of Props or Sets or Scenes?

I can and do recategorize all my installed content, but I still don't see the logic behind many artists' choices, which often slows me down as I'm trying to categorize newly installed content.

Jeff

Herald of Fire

I tend not to worry whether they're props or sets as long as they're placed in the right categories. The difficulty I find is that a lot of environments end up under the "Props" category, and not the environments category, while for some props the reverse is true. I think part of the problem might be a lack of a standard to follow, so publishers aren't really certain which category is best. It's unlikely that they're intentionally trying to confuse us :D

adamr001

That's pretty much why I use custom categories. MY logic makes perfect sense to me. It may not make the same level of sense to you.

I made a "starter kit" of custom categories that you can find here: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/15192/

It'll give you an idea of what you can do with categories if you take the time.

wancow

I lost my logic and I can't find it... did I loan it to one of you guys? GIVE IT BACK!

jeffbdvs

HeraldOfFire said:

I tend not to worry whether they're props or sets as long as they're placed in the right categories. The difficulty I find is that a lot of environments end up under the "Props" category, and not the environments category, while for some props the reverse is true. I think part of the problem might be a lack of a standard to follow, so publishers aren't really certain which category is best. It's unlikely that they're intentionally trying to confuse us :D

I agree that the lack of standards is a big part of the problem, but I don't see how a set of standards can be derived without invoking many arbitrary rules that would ruffle the feathers of users and artists at least as much as the default categories in Studio do now! :lol:

I try not to ascribe malicious intent to anyone without proof that they're being bad on purpose, so I also assumed the artists' uncertainty was a factor.

Jeff

jeffbdvs

adamr001 said:

That's pretty much why I use custom categories. MY logic makes perfect sense to me. It may not make the same level of sense to you.

I made a "starter kit" of custom categories that you can find here: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/15192/

It'll give you an idea of what you can do with categories if you take the time.

Nice work on the starter kit. I've read a few of your posts about content organization and they've been very helpful. So your logic isn't completely foreign to me!

I am using custom categorizations outside of the default -- another of your suggestions that has helped. But I have to decide what goes where (from either the unassigned category or from a product's default category) and the smart content labels on the DB icons can make that more difficult if the labels don't make sense to me: "This piece of ivy is labeled as a set. It looks like a prop. Is it really a set with other things in it that aren't shown in the icon, or is it just a piece of ivy? I guess I'll have to load it into the scene to find out..."

Jeff

Daz Jack Tomalin

Jeff Bellune said:

In Baroque Grandeur, many preload files are labeled as "Scenes", but most of them only load a part of the entire scene -- the rug and lights, the small table and chairs, even the chandelier. Why choose "Scenes" instead of "Presets" or "Sets" or something else?

I personally refer to items as 'scenes' as they are saved as scene files. So while they may not literally be scenes, the file themselves are. I guess I could call them something else, but it would probably cause more confusion. I've done so many products now, hopefully people have a handle on how I label stuff, so hopefully a little more user friendly in the long run.

Hope that helps :)

jeffbdvs

Jack Tomalin said:

I personally refer to items as 'scenes' as they are saved as scene files. So while they may not literally be scenes, the file themselves are. I guess I could call them something else, but it would probably cause more confusion. I've done so many products now, hopefully people have a handle on how I label stuff, so hopefully a little more user friendly in the long run.

Hi Jack,

Thanks for chiming in. Believe me, any insight into your logic as an artist is helpful and appreciated!

Jeff

pwiecek

I also use my own system. Its all the way to the point that I don't even have anything in the runtime folder except Geometries, Textures & scripts. I use P3DO Explorer by the way

Daz Jack Tomalin

Jeff Bellune said:

Jack Tomalin said:

I personally refer to items as 'scenes' as they are saved as scene files. So while they may not literally be scenes, the file themselves are. I guess I could call them something else, but it would probably cause more confusion. I've done so many products now, hopefully people have a handle on how I label stuff, so hopefully a little more user friendly in the long run.

Hi Jack,

Thanks for chiming in. Believe me, any insight into your logic as an artist is helpful and appreciated!

Jeff

No problem, glad to help :)

Richard Haseltine

The flashes at the top right of an icon aren't something the artist placed - DS places them when they are saved as a file of a certain type (Scene sub-set if they are marked Set). Content creators do use labels such as scene as part of a file to distinguish between a single component and an assembly of several components (a scene). So they are separate - a collection of items may be saved as a sceen subset, and so tagged Set by DS, and names Balcony scene by the creator, because it contains a pre-assembled balcony setting.

Miss B

Richard Haseltine said:

Content creators do use labels such as scene as part of a file to distinguish between a single component and an assembly of several components (a scene).

I was just going to respond to Jack in a similar vain. Most of what he creates as a vendor are scenes as they do comprise several items being set up as a whole, so "scene" to me is the most logical name for it.

jeffbdvs

Richard Haseltine said:

The flashes at the top right of an icon aren't something the artist placed - DS places them when they are saved as a file of a certain type (Scene sub-set if they are marked Set). Content creators do use labels such as scene as part of a file to distinguish between a single component and an assembly of several components (a scene). So they are separate - a collection of items may be saved as a sceen subset, and so tagged Set by DS, and names Balcony scene by the creator, because it contains a pre-assembled balcony setting.

Wow. Thanks, Richard. That's good information to know and helps a lot. I suppose that's the kind of thing I'll be able to discover on my own once the 763-page DAZ Studio 4.5 User Guide is published? :-)

Expanding on your comment about DS handling the badging/flashing of the icons: For Cameras, I have 3 different colors of flashes. Pink is labeled Camera ?, yellow is just labeled Camera, and Red is labeled Camera(s). I have red badges for both .duf and .cm2 files, but the yellow and pink only represent .cm2 files. Is there some color convention that can help me identify what kind of metadata is represented by those labels and colors? Any camera presets that I create directly in DS4.5 are .duf files and are flashed with red.

Jeff

Serene Night

I find I spend too much time locating content that daz has installed. It used to be worse than it is now, but it still is too time consuming. I wish all items were at least searchable under their proper product name.

Richard Haseltine

Red will replace stuff in the scene (by default - you can change that for native files by holding down cmd(Mac)/ctrl(Win) when double-clicking) - so loading cameras or lights usually replaces the existing cameras or lights. The other two colours are for things that load new stuff, without replacing anything, and for things that modify a selected item as I recall - I can't recall which is which, or if that is exactly right, however.

Joe Cotter

That's why set categories won't work for many people. The sort that makes sense to me is:

+---Characters
| +---Accessories
| | +---Jewelry
| | +---Musical
| | +---Sports
| | +---Tools
| | \---Weapons
|
| +---Animals
| | +---Amphibians, Reptiles & Insects
| | +---Aquatic
| | +---Birds
| | +---Dinosaurs
| | +---Fantasy
| | \---Mammals
|
| +---Bots
| +---Fantasy & Scifi
| +---Hair
| +---Human
| +---Morphs
| +---Outfits
| | +---Asian
| | +---Contemporary
| | +---Fantasy
| | +---Historic
| | +---Holiday
| | +---Scifi
| | \---Steampunk
|
| +---Poses
| +---Toon
| \---Vehicles
| +---Contemporary
| +---Fantasy
| +---Historic
| +---Scifi
| \---Steampunk
|
+---Merchant Resources
+---Plugins, Cameras, Lights, & Utils
|
\---Scene
+---Accessories
| +---Aquatic
| +---Asian
| +---Contemporary
| +---Fantasy
| +---Food
| +---Historic
| +---Holiday
| \---Scifi
|
+---Architecture
| +---Ancient
| +---Asian
| +---Contemporary
| +---Fantasy
| +---Medieval
| +---Old West
| +---Scifi
| \---Steampunk
|
+---Landscape
\---Plants

I can find things quickly with no hunting. Basically there are only 4 main categories in my setup: Character, Merchant Resources, Plugins et al.., and Scene. Categories in this case not being 'categories' as I use them for alternate methods of finding things. These categories are my actual Content Manager folders.

jeffbdvs

Richard Haseltine said:

Red will replace stuff in the scene (by default - you can change that for native files by holding down cmd(Mac)/ctrl(Win) when double-clicking) - so loading cameras or lights usually replaces the existing cameras or lights. The other two colours are for things that load new stuff, without replacing anything, and for things that modify a selected item as I recall - I can't recall which is which, or if that is exactly right, however.

Cool. And I have to assume that a green badge is a simple add/merge without modifying any other objects in the scene?

Regardless, apparently badge color is off-topic for this thread. It helps to know that color shouldn't affect categorization in most situations.

Thanks,
Jeff

jeffbdvs

Gedd said:

Categories in this case not being 'categories' as I use them for alternate methods of finding things. These categories are my actual Content Manager folders.

Since I don't have years and years of folder structure organization to maintain, the content database in DS4.5 should ideally let me get away with having the product installers put the stuff wherever they want. I don't care what or where the actual folders are because I intend to use the db to find what I need. As long as I continue to use DS as my content "hub", I should be able to use that strategy even for getting content into Cinema 4D via InterPoser Pro.

Your folder structure is interesting -- it's arranged the same way I would use tags, if DS let me tag more than one item at a time. Being able to tag multiple items at once, and even entire categories at once, would be my #1 feature request for DS_Next.

Jeff