BEFORE YOU DOWNLOAD: I could Owe Daz More money in the Future??? New Download Agreement Feb 22 2013
Consumer573
Posts: 282
I just made a purchase and went to download it.
A new agreement popped up, after the purchase transaction was complete, that I don't understand and that has me very worried.
I am not planning to agree to this one if it means what I think it means.
Can someone please explain what this new thing they want me to agree to means??
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"License Fees. User agrees to pay DAZ, prior to or concurrent with delivery of the Content, the full license fee for use of the Content. User agrees to pay DAZ any and all applicable tax that is levied in conjunction with the purchase of the license for the Content whenever DAZ must collect and/or pay such taxes from or on behalf of User according to the applicable statutes and ordinances, as interpreted by the departmental authority of the taxing unit. Furthermore, User agrees to pay DAZ all costs, expenses, and attorney's fees expended by DAZ in the collection of the license fees and any applicable taxes, whether by filing a lawsuit or through arbitration."
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This sounds like in two or three four years - or even 10- Daz could come back to me and say, Oh, by the way you made $1000 in purchases with us last year, your state says we have to pay 8% State plus 1% local, so please cough up another $90 and $90 your share of attorney's fees in collecting this, and for the year prior you also owe us....
If this is what it means, no way. When I make a purchase from you I expect it to be FINAL.
And I want access to my downloads that I feel YOU OWE ME before putting this agreement in effect.
I WILL NOT SIGN IT Unless you can tell me that I am wrong and a purchase now is my final cost.
Daz, PLEASE explain this to me. Tell me I'm wrong and put my mind at ease.
Thank you.
Daz 3D is part of 
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DAZ Productions, Inc.
7533 S Center View Ct #4664
West Jordan, UT 84084
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Comments
On-line taxes can only be applied to purchases made after the Tax goes into effect. Retro-active is not allowed in the USA.
I appreciate the point of view. But that's not what the new agreement seems to be saying. It seems to be saying Daz can come back to me at any point in the future and simply give me a bill for tax and attorneys fees (and maybe a percentage of the implementation costs) and I would have to pay it.
What if they think - or even more - already KNOW they have to pay taxes for people, but haven't figured out how to implement a system yet? Any taxes I owe I want to pay up front. I am on a budget and cannot afford surprises. Presently internet taxation is a muddle that is beginning to panic a lot of small business people. You'd have to be a lawyer to figure out when you should pay tax and how much and when not. I just don't want to give Daz carte blanche to come back to me at some random point in the future and say, "Here's your portion of our bill. Remember, you agreed to pay it!"
Right now they put that darn pop-up on the downloads page, not at the purchase page. Why? As a result I cannot access anything I've bought in the last 3 or 4 years without clicking 'accept.'
Sounds like DAZ is reacting to a new Internet Sales Tax bill. Apparently, there's been a bill introduced that would allow states to collect taxes on internet purchases, regardless of whether a business has a physical presence in the state. This was halted in '92 by the Supreme Court, which ruled that a state could NOT charge taxes unless a business had a physical presence in the state.
You can read more here:
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/retailers-lawmakers-revive-call-internet-sales-tax-910090
As to your question, if my legalese translator is working right, it means that should your state BEGIN requiring DAZ to collect sales tax, you as the customer agree to pay it, and if for some reason you don't pay it, you will reimburse DAZ the cost of collecting the taxes, either through lawsuit or abitration.
So, no, DAZ won't be showing up at some point in the future with a bill for taxes.
Then why not simply start charging me appropriate sales tax on the checkout page?
If you take a look at the EULA presented using the old installers, you'll see that the section you are concerned about has been in the EULA for years. It's not a change.
Then what's new? Why did they put this up before I could download anything? That wasn't there before.
I'll have to take a closer look at some of those installers if you say this was in there. Thank you. But it still bothers me as I don't know what it means to my life.
If you look at the checkout page, there is a line for taxes, just above the final price. It's always been there.
With DAZ converting its content to zip format, the EULA is no longer being included in the content download. So DAZ is requiring everyone to agree to the EULA BEFORE allowing access to the content.
DAZ 3D is switching to .zips, so they need you to agree to the EULA once before downloading. The main change to the EULA is that it now allows 3D printing with an additional 3D printing license.
Thank you, Mike, that helps. Quite a bit, actually.
But, even if I never noticed it buried in the installer before (I checked one and you're correct) it is now at my attention.
Does this clause mean that Daz is reserving the right to come back and give me a retroactive bill for things I've bought over the last four years? I feel It shouldn't be there if my purchase at check-out was clean and final. And why is it on the downloads or install page after the purchase transaction is complete?
I haven't seen this with other products that I buy; they just collect sales tax if they need to. I don't have to sign a clause like this to get mocassins for my mom, for instance, even though they collect sales tax. I mean, the purchase just doesn't go through and you don't get the item if you don't pay the tax. Again, I don't understand it.
There is some kind of international agreement about the seller collecting taxes from people at the purchase of the items which are then transfered to the tax authorities in buyer's country, but I don't know how binding it is and for whom, and whatever legal aspects are involved. As far as I've read however it's sellers duty to collect the tax, and if he doesn't, they can't go after the buyer afterwards.
I buy software and different stuff quite often in countries all over the world, and in most cases the seller will collect the sales tax we pay here in Denmark (or what compares to local tax in sellers country, depending on how much he sells to people in Denmark).
Most big companies as well as the credit card processing companies (SWREG, Share-It, Plimus etc.) who handles the sales for a lot of smaller companies do it. A number of smaller companies who handle the CC processing themselves (e.g. DAZ) don't, probably because it makes their products cheaper as well as saves them some administration. PayPal does it sometimes, sometimes not, so it seems to be seller who decides here.
What does 3d printing with additional 3d printing license mean exactly? Do we have to have a license if we want to print and/or sell our images? Or is 3d printing something more than normal printing? Not sure what specifically 3d printing is...
2D printing is what most people do when they finish a render and then hit the print button. 3D printing is the latest kid on the block and actually prints out a 3D model of the 3D model you used in your render.
3D printing uses plastic/resin powders to 'print' an actual three dimensional object. The details of exactly how it's done vary, but that's the basic idea. I suppose CNC routing/milling can count, at least for this license, too.
3D printing uses plastic/resin powders to 'print' an actual three dimensional object. The details of exactly how it's done vary, but that's the basic idea. I suppose CNC routing/milling can count, at least for this license, too.
So you're saying that I can have a physical object to hold in my hand?
So you're saying that I can have a physical object to hold in my hand?
Yes. That is the whole point of 3D printing... to have an actual, physical object (sculpture) you can hold in your hand and view from different angles, which is made/printed from the digital 3D object you created/designed on a computer. ;-)
3D Printing is a growing industry being used more and more in prototyping and manufacturing. Also, the varity of printing methods and materials used is expanding. It is even possible now to print objects in mixed materials, including metals.
Example: 3D Printing is used sometimes in the manufacture of jewelery. A jeweler will design and model a piece of jewelry on a computer, have it printed in wax, and then have a casting made of the 3D wax print.
So you're saying that I can have a physical object to hold in my hand?
Yes. That is the whole point of 3D printing... to have an actual, physical object (sculpture) you can hold in your hand and view from different angles, which is made/printed from the digital 3D object you created/designed on a computer. ;-)
3D Printing is a growing industry being used more and more in prototyping and manufacturing. Also, the varity of printing methods and materials used is expanding. It is even possible now to print objects in mixed materials, including metals.
Example: 3D Printing is used sometimes in the manufacture of jewelery. A jeweler will design and model a piece of jewelry on a computer, have it printed in wax, and then have a casting made of the 3D wax print.
Wow. These are exciting times. I can almost relate this to visualizing and manifesting in the palm of my hand!
Only if your wallet affects your ability to stand up straight — right now the state of the art is similar to the very first non-business colour laser printers, it's expen$$$ive. Prices to buy your own 3D printer are starting to come down, but it's still nowhere near what most of us here would call affordable. Maybe in a few more years.
Only if your wallet affects your ability to stand up straight — right now the state of the art is similar to the very first non-business colour laser printers, it's expen$$$ive. Prices to buy your own 3D printer are starting to come down, but it's still nowhere near what most of us here would call affordable. Maybe in a few more years.
Yeah, I figured they were still expensive. I'll probably master manifesting in the palm of my hand first. lol
Here is an Idea for DAZ3D to make money! Have 3D printer there at your company for your customer who are willing to pay for actual models of the stuff they create. I would like one of resin but I would also want one of clay so I could fire it and bake in some color. This way DAZ3D can control how many are produced. There would not be a need for them to deny us this cool new medium to work with!
I just read an article yesterday on 3d printing. It was http://investing.covestor.com/2013/01/3d-printing-is-a-lot-of-hype-and-itll-never-go-mainstream?aff=TAB&utm_source=TAB&utm_medium=taboola&utm_campaign=content
DAZ3d stopped printing CD discs of people's purchase histories so I doubt they are going to spent the insane amounts of money for commercial 3D printers as well as hire an entire tech department to fix things sent to them by their customers to just prepare for printing. Some good threads already here at the forums on this, which comes down to most of the models sold here are built wrong for the 3D printing process. Are perfect for what they do now, but not that.
Some companies already do all this, so as I understand it, the new licenses to buy may make it possible for you to send your work to commercial businesses like this so they can be fixed and then printed. As well as a 'smaller' license for those who build their own 3D printers at home for personal use. Times and tech are really changing, the future should be interesting.
Cheers :)
Regarding my original question, today, Monday 2/25, I was going to contact Daz directly (I felt I had asked my question here on the forum and had gotten the best answer that I could, but I still wanted an answer from the company). Before taking someone's time, however, I went to the downloads area and noticed that I could now access my downloads without having to click on that pop-up Eula.
They took the pop-up Eula away.
At the moment I'm giving Daz credit that they are hopefully reviewing the issue to see if the wording makes sense and achieves what they want to.
Regarding 3D printing, right now we can do color. I'm waiting for the time when we can easily do either multiple materials or different hardnesses of the same material (like the maker bot referenced above). Wouldn't it be interesting if you could "print" a boned figure with hinges such that the outside was soft and Rubbery but the inside had a structure? I actually find it kind of neat that a legal question morphed into a discussion about 3D printing technologies when the legal portion had run its course.
The idea of having to modify the meshes is interesting and something I did not know.
Novica, I read this article. The author cites the CES show, a product by makerbot, and says that 3D printing is a bad investment because it wlll never go mainstream. He says that it is too complicated even for many CAD engineers who still use expensive software.
I believe the author is missing a crucial point, that CAD is not what it was in the past. It is merging with ART. Consumer programs like Poser and Daz Studio and the whole movement behind them (The Daz, Renderosity, Content Paradise Stores) are what he's missed and the consumer wave coming on as a result is the reason why they fascinate me.
For one thing, in the past when engineers designed an object, the drawings went into a file cabinet (or hard drive). Now they have the ability to monetize an object that doesn't even exist physically - additional revenue from Turbosquid, for instance, just by putting the outside of their model on-line and selling it. Another form of advertising, even. Movie studios and other artists can now use what a lot of engineers created in 3D.
Now, with 3D printing I'm going to argue that you do not always need a sophisticated engineering application as the author suggests. The next thing that makes sense is to have a 3D scanner designed with the old Kodak Brownie philosophy (you push a button, Kodak does the rest). If you lose a metal screw but have another (or can borrow one), print one if you can scan the original. My old hedge trimmer has a cam that broke. It's made of a fiberglass type material that was cut-out. If I had a scanner I'd scan it and then print it.
All these extraordinarily creative women and men making dresses for Victoria 4 and and Victoria 5. At some point someone is going to be able to send them out and make one-offs. The big obstacle here is not so much the technology, but I think more the standardization.
The first wave of 3D printers is likely to be used by small firms and hobbyists.
I say the author is wrong and you should hold on to that article as a classic.
It reminds me of the article I read by a financial analyst around the year 2000 that said video phones had been around since the world's fair in 1964 and no one would ever want a camera inside their Cell. That it was proven that people did not want to see other people's faces. My colleagues peeked in the door as I yelled back at the screen that the analyst was an insipid moron missing the point (Hi Honey! I'm at Home Despot, do you mean this tile? or this one?). In that case. mobility was the crucial difference he did not understand, and that it was not so much about seeing a picture of the other person's face as it was about showing other people what you see around you.
Computer Graphics World magazine (CGW) ran an article in their January/Febuary issue about the current state of 3D printing entitled "Consolidation in the Digital-Reality Industry", which I thought some of you might be interested in.
Oh... And something fun and sci-fi-ish that I had forgotten about and which was briefly mentioned in the CGW article... There is a company named Organovo that is working on 3D printing technology to build tissue on structures and print human parts and organs. Think of a printer similar to an inkjet that lays down layers of cells rather then ink on a bio-degradable structure. With careful nurturing the cells would come together to form a functioning organ ready for transplant. If I remember correctly they have already had some success with some very basic tissue structures. Wouldn't this be amazing if it worked!
In response to the Smarter Investing 3D Printing article, I think the author is right to be cautious of 3D printing as a good investment opportunity, but he goes much to far in his negative analysis of the industry. For example: he is wrong that expensive, high end CAD software is 'required' to create digital models ready for 3D printing. It is possible to download free 3D modeling software, such as Wings 3D or Blender, and with a little knowledge create digital models ready for printing. I don't think 3D printers will ever become as popular as 2D printers were, but there is a market for them amongst engineers, designers, artists, and hobbyists if the printers and there printing materials can be made more affordable. I don't think we quite yet grasp all the possibilities about the demand and possible uses for 3D printers.