IRAY VR-360 Stereo
MrReclusive
Posts: 27
I am sure this has been asked, but its hard to look for VR on the forums because you get VRAM, and that is all over the place.
I have been experiminting with VR rendering in Daz Studio for awhile.
I have tried some ones rig they created that created 180 degree renderes.
I have created my own setup using a "main" (for placment) camera that has a "Left Eye" camera with an X of -3.25 and a "Right Eye" camera with an X of 3.25 attached. I also have a small sphere attached to the camera that allows me to set a "focal" point for the left and right eye. both the left and right eye have the sphere set as their "point at" with the X and Z rotate locked at 0 so only the y rotate will change. Both left and right eye are spherical cameras. This setup does amazing 360 degree renders that can be setup in a vr (either creating a video, or 2 sky domes inside Unity). except for one major flaw. as long as you look straight ahaid its perfect as soon as you start looking around the eyes become wrong because at 90 degree one eye is behind the other, and at 180 your left and right eye are pretty muched swapped and the rotation created to set your focal point in the front, causes the eyes to reverse cross eye.
has anyone been able to successfully render full 360 stereo inside daz. I have tried the stereo offset with the camera settings but for the life of me cant get it right, either you strain to focus, or the "depth" is so minimal it might as well be a 2d image. I dont mind doing 2 renders per "image".
I am working on a little project in my free time which is a VR visual novel using content rendered in daz with IRAY. The "3d" sprites were easy, its the environment i am struggeling with, now I could just create an environment inside unity, but I want every aspect of the game to be a Daz studio render.
My only other thought is to not render 360 and just render front, back, left, right, top, bottom. and just apply those to planes inside unity, but i am not a big fan of the outcome.
Thanks
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Comments
You would be looking for a "stereoscopic spherical camera". unforunatley there is no way that I know of to do this in Studio.
I can't see how to do it with Iray either - it seems that the capability does exist in the Iray codebase but not in the Daz implementation. Hopefully it will arrive one day soon. In the interim, achieving this is straightforward using Octane: you save your scene out as ORBX file, open in octane standalone, add a panoramic camera, adjust a couple of settings and you're done. Looks great in VR.
When searching in the DAZ Forums it often helps to put a 'space' key after your search word to avoid unwanted word/letter combinations; like 'VR ' instead of 'VR' finding 'VRAM' as well in your example.
This is now possible I believe in 4.9 - there is a new lens option in your Camera parameters. You need to set the Lens Distortion type to "Spherical". Only works in IRay (the render settings must have iray selected or you do not see the option).
Sucks we can't do this in OpenGL or 3delight.
You are correct in the presence of the spherical camera in Iray, but do you know if it has any Stereoscopic settings? I haven't looked lately, but don't think that's available (yet?). As the OP described, doing a L/R rig with spheres only looks good from one perspective, and then really starts to hurt your brain. It makes sense when you think about how your eyeballs would be rotating in your head to produce the same image, and about half-way around, left becomes right.
I believe a well-thought-out 'camera' like the Iray or Octane systems can/could use clever lightray/lens physics to account for the inevitable distortion and create viable L/R sphere images in one shot... How we mere-mortals can get such a beast is the question!
waiting!
cheers,
--ms
I too looked at this issue and have come to the conclusion that we are trying to ask to much from a single photo/render when we think/wish everything in the 360-pano should exhibit good stereo vision.
One option that I have not explored is to basically make a 360 frame movie and rotate your stereo rig around in a complete circle. Then simulate rotating your view right or left by moving forwards or backwards in the movie.
Another option may be to simulate what many of the 360 video action cams do and have one 180-camera looking forwards and one looking back, then stitch the two together. This will at least give your single photo two point of focus (front and back), and hopefully the sides will be no worse.
Lastly, for true 360 stereo viewing we of course have the option to try and bring our models into an interactive game engine environment.
Here are some links to other discussions on the DAZ Forums that might also be of interest:
Under Cameras | Lens settings DAZ Studio now has a "Lens Stereo Offset (mm)" setting, we can use.
BTW, I recall reading that DAZ iRay was suppose to support stereo panos from a "single-render", has anyone figured out how to do this?
I am still rendering left and right views separately and combine them with Stereo Photo Maker software.
with that method the sides will have no depth,imagine your eyes rolling sideways,they'd both be looking at the same point,from the same point..so no depth at all.
Daz need to figure out how Octane does it and use that method,it's one render,full 360 stereo,
the only other option I know of is to do it in slices,so each render is one pixel wide,so for a 4k picture you'd need to render it 4k times,then stitch them together afterwards...yea,bugger doing that,lol
Thanks for those links @FirePro9! I'd missed a coouple of 'em.
I'd read the Iray Stereo notes as well. Do stereo panos = cylinders or full 360, I wonder.
FWIW, I also do L+R and SPM/SMM. I still use 3DL a lot, so I'm relegated to the 'old-school' tricks in that rendering domain... It'd be great to get some 3DL stereo features someday...
cheers,
--ms
Stonemason, I'm not familiar with Octane, if you have a link to an example of a 360 Stereo Pano with full stereo all around the view, I'd like to see what that looks like.
On the Octane website I saw they also support ORBX which appears to be a point cloud format and that would certainly allow for full 360 stereo as it includes geometry data.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fy1qje3dthpzt98/254k.png?dl=0
here's the Octane render,it even does the top/bottom or side/side stitching for you,image size is 4096x4096
Thanks Stonemason, that is a pretty impressive stereo 360 pano with good stereo separation all around. Hopefully DAZ can bring some of that Octane magic to DS!
Daz Iray 360 stereo Tutorial.
(Commercial link removed. ~Mod)
do you have any examples of what can be produced using it?
I found this thread whilst looking for info on the Iray spherical camera and thought I'd add a little bit of info for anyone else searching VR 360 3D.
I've had moderate success creating true 3D 360 with Iray, but it's a fiddle and not as good as the results from Otoy. I wish Daz would hurry up and implement the stereo spherical Iray camera.. It looks like just about everyone else has some form of VR support in their software now, although I imagine the demand is still pretty low :-(
My method involves making a slit camera, and rendering images slices. It takes a while to do but the results are fairly decent, except at the apex where it can get a little swirly.
If anyone is interested in the method then I can explain in more detail, although hopefully the next Studio version will have the real camera implemented. I've attached a sample (low res, draft) just to show full 360 3D and not the common 180 forward only 3D.
echoing your interest, in case DAZ marketing/devs are listening in...
I've been playing with the slit technique as well (DS and Bryce). mostly cubes and sphere tests. mixed results. distortions are hard to hide with perfect scene elements, whereas with trees and textured organics you can get away with a lot more.
Given the stereo-sphere function is built into the Iray camera already, it'd be great to have that available if all that's required is exposing the API/controls in DS.
mjcasual has some non-stereo 360 VR scripts for DS in his freebie collection. I wonder if they can be tweaked to help in this general direction (3DL, etc.).
Your images are quite clean. nice.
--ms
I know that in Iray Rendering mode it is possible,
but still somewhat how difficult it is!
Pulsar, I am interested in your method. I've thought that such a technique was needed to get better stereo all around. How many slices are needed to be stiched together? Thanks!