...The Other Princess WIP thread: Rebooted.
kyoto kid
Posts: 41,036
...OK many have seen Wancow's wonderful "Princess Belle" project thread. Incredible work and the likeness is beautiful.
Well...it also happened to stoke a bit of a fire and one night earlier this week, I sat down to give a try at one of my favourite princess characters, Merida form the Disney/Pixar film Brave.
Never rally fared well with creating a "celeb" pic save for one I did several years ago of Lalla Ward for a Dr Who thread on the old forums.
OK so this is just a teaser I did in the course of several hours over a couple nights. Granted the dress isn't exact and that wild mane of hair...well doesn't exist as far as I can find.
Basically she is built on the Young Teens5 with a mix of Sadie, Julie (Girl Face1), and Hitomi.for her head and face.
....and a lot of morph adjustments. She's not quite there yet but I feel I have a good start.
I've since downloaded several images including a couple of pre-production stills for study purposes.
As I do not possess even basic modelling skills (yet), I have to be content with using existing content.
For now, the hair is a combination of April YSH's Amarseda and Osean hair.
I'm wondering if there is a texture creators resource for the Genesis MFD so I can at least get the dress right.
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Comments
Hey, I like this. You should ask Chohole about the MFD, she is a master at textures for it.
If you want textures for the MFD try Choholes website.
http://chohole.ovbi.org/
for creating your own textures; Stitch Witch is a good tool to use.
KK,
First off, GREAT Project!
Secondly I submit this. When I made the dress for Belle I made a base dress and made two separate conforming figures for it: The Shoulder Wrap and the Skirt Drapes. Merida has certain features on her dress that you might do well to model for her and fit to the MFD as you're modelling.
Oh, and thank you for turning me onto Brave... I hadn't seen it before you started this project :)
If you can, I'd love to see how you developed your interpretation of her face. When I posted my own progression, the comments and suggestions went a long way toward helping me get my version of Belle where she needed to be... I believe, though I could be wrong, that this version of Merida you are creating will be well served by setting yourself up for critique so long as those doing so accept the notion that this is your version and not an exact replica AND that your approach to the character will be different from their own.
...thank you.
Alas my modelling skills are no where near the level to attempt creating the dress/cloak from scratch (plus I am still just learning Blender as Hex freezes up without warning).
I do have MarvelousDesigner2 but using it also requires Poser Pro 2012 for final draping (not sure if DSON accommodates this) as MD2 works better with it since Daz Studio's dynamics only work on content created with Optitex 's Runway Designer software (which carries a five digit price tag). Also, since I am still on the 64 bit notebook, I am working under very extreme memory limitations which preclude running a cloth draping simulation in wither PoserPro or Daz 4.5.
This is why I'm considering the MFD as a "plan B" if I can figure out how to create a texture for it since it involves creating transmaps for areas not covered.
As to the hair, a PA needs to come out with something in a similar vein (none of what I see in the various content stores comes close to that wild mop she has). Don't have the resources at the time to afford the Gerabaldi hair plugin which I admit, might be the solution I need. Of course, if I'm not correct, it is strand (which is the same concept Pixar used for developing Merida's hair in the film) rather than transmap based and thus while more controllable, adds significantly to the polygon "weight".
In short to accurately create the hair and dress, I need to move to a 64 bit platform which is still a couple weeks away as I still need to update device drivers/SPs and install all my apps (including updates for the 64 bit versions), content, as well as set up a custom runtime structure.
So for this exercise I am just focusing on the character.
Right now I am at the hotspot to do a number of downloads (not just of 3D content but also driver and SP updates for the new system).
This evening I will get the percentages of the various characters I used for the pic above and "reverse engineer" the process. Please be patient as my connectivity from home is not the greatest and uploading images (particularly posts with multiple ones) is very slow. I wish the new forum software allowed text to be displayed between images like the old software did as that made threads like this much more clear and simple.
well, you could always tap on Wendy's shoulder :)
And there's always Wings3D... which I'm looking at right now in hopes that it's more stable than is Hex...
...great software tool, unfortunately out of my budget for now.
No more polys until exported as an obj...it's all math up to that point (the hairs are calculated at render time, based on control curves and follicles (emitters)). Yeah, it does/can eat up some RAM, but not as much as an obj would nor is it as render intensive as heavily transmapped hair.
Kyoto Kid could you use this for Merida's hair?
http://www.sharecg.com/v/3583/browse/11/Poser/Neraida-fairy-hair-for-poser-
...tried wings. Felt I was spending more time downloading and installing updates than actually working with with the app. Also gave up when I couldn't adjust the UI to make it readable for these tired old eyes.
Even so there is no "Make Model" button, that just takes time and patience (which I'd rather devote to a more full featured and powerful app like Blender). This is also why I purchased an MD2 individual licence as is more intuitive for the task of clothing design since I used to do theatrical costuming. The Gerabaldi hair plugin does look very promising but even at the introductory sale price it is a bit out of my budget. until at the very least, next payday (provided I am still gainfully employed - long story).
Will PM Chohole later today on how to handle MFD textures. I do have both PSP10_X and Gimp which are more than sufficient for creating the normal maps. I believe there was a tutorial regarding this on the old site, but since the software change it is no longer available.
...thank you.
Defintiely long and wavy enough. Will DL and give it a look to see if it has a "fullness" morph. May also be able to "meshbash" it with other hairs to get the "fullness".
..as to morphing suggestions, I am totally open. I just kind of dialed this up on the fly to see if it was even remotely possible. The one area I have no skill with is scripting my own morphs so it will have to be what other characters I can mix and dial settings.
Again, I downloaded a number of pics of the original character from film and pre-production stills that include different angles and lighting. As she was custom built from the ground up (with software more powerful than I have at my disposal), I realise this will be my own interpretation but I still would like to strive to keep the "3D toon" rather than a more "realistic" look. I want this also to remain a fun project as well as a learning experience.
Once I have the 64 bit workstation set up, I will migrate this project to it. Then (and in the case of the hair plugin, finances willing) I will have more tools at my disposal to deal with the "finishing touches".
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/video/brave-featurette-creating-merida-421413
oh, and if you want to truly be horrified and digusted:
http://feministing.com/2012/06/26/brave-has-a-gender-problem/
Found the last on the same search
...thank you.
Defintiely long and wavy enough. Will DL and give it a look to see if it has a "fullness" morph. May also be able to "meshbash" it with other hairs to get the "fullness".
She has other hairs too which you may be able to meshbash with. Your Merida's looking great by the way. :)
...thank you for the links. I wish the featurette could be downloaded for later viewing as it has some very helpful production value. I am unable to stream this from home without having a vid stall every few seconds to buffer due to my poor connectivity.
The commentary was very interesting. I disagree with the one view about gender role and that notion never crossed my mind at all when I viewed the film. I've known a number of "independent" women in my time, one since secondary school, who has remained so and has been very dedicated to social causes. She is still single and never been married or "partnered" with anyone from either gender. Unfortunately society looks at people like her and myself as being "odd" because we don't follow the "accepted" roles it wants to force on people. In this way, Brave held a very special meaning to me.
Like the some of the community responses, I too felt it was primarily a story of a young lady with a fierce sense of independence who didn't feel ready or willing to be tied down a more sedentary "courtly life". She is very much like the supportive character in my own story, Margo Grande, who takes more after her eccentric adventure loving late father than her stoic and "proper British Noble" mother. This is part of what attracted me to the film and why for myself, I felt it was successful. Though my story has a more darker and sinister tone (apologies, no spoilers), the basic premise for Margo's relationship with her mother and the adopted Leela are rooted in this need to be her "own person", not someone she feels she is not.
OK sociological ramble over, as this thread is about the process of visually depicting a character who I admire and in some ways, identify with.
...OK, as promised here are the settings I used to create the version of my Merida character in the Pic at the top of this thread.
Physique:
Julie 60%
Satsuki 40%
--Body morphs:
Hip Bone Crest .15
Hip Bone Volume .25%
Hip Volume .4
Thighs Volume .3
Hand Propigating scale -18%
Breasts Cleavage .12
Breasts small .25
Julie Breast shape 2 .35
Julie Breast shape 3 .46
Hiromi Breasts round .2
Chest Width .1
Ribcage Volume .4
Waist Width -.15
--Head & Face
Andrea Head 60%
Sadie Head 10%
Hitomi Head .25
Head Propigating Scale -8%
Girl Face .55
Eyes Height .25
Eyes width -.45
Eye Iris Size -.4
Eyes Angle .7
Eyes Depth -.3
Eye Height Outer .4
Eyes size -6
Pupil Dilate -.8
Boy Lashes .35
Mouth Width .17
Lips Thin 1.0
Lip Bottom Out .3
Mouth Depth .48
Mouth Corner Up-Down .55
Nose Width -.2
Nose Bridge Width -.75
Hitomi Teeth Smoother 1.0
Cheek Bones Size .45
Cheek Bones Width .13
Cheeks Depth .17
Chin Depth .4
Pose and expression morphs were excluded.
Getting the rounded shape of her head and face down is a real challenge. It's too bad there isn't a cranial height adjustment that would help a lot. If 3DU released a Genesis compatible version of the Toon Generations characters, that could make matters a bit simpler.
Unfortunately for me, Hexagon crashes whenever I try to use symmetry on Genesis, or I'd try and make you a round face morph.
...thank you for the thought. If there is any app that needs Daz Development's attention, it is Hex. It would be so nice to have a modeller that bridged to Studio without being so inherently unstable. For me, adjusting smoothing usually causes it to freeze up without warning.
I wonder if I can create the morph in Blender and Import it to Studio?
I'm told you can, but I don't use Blender, so I couldn't tell you how. I do know tha W3D loads Genesis no problem Haven't tried symmetry with it yet.
...never got into W3D because I couldn't get the UI to look or work right for me (yeah I know that sounds kind of odd as I mention that I am learning Blender).
For the dress I'm going to go the MFD route for now until I can get a more solid grasp on MD3 (they updated it recently).
Need to investigate just how far the Garibaldi Express plugin can be taken, and if it is even possible to use it for creating that wild mane that she has before I drop any Zloty's on it. As it does use the Fibremesh concept, it sounds similar to what Pixar used to build and layer Merida's hair.
I was looking at some of the making of... and whatever they were using, I've never seen that before. It looks pretty amazing, and if it ever makes it into the consumer 3D market, it'll revolutionize hair. Make it hyper easy to control not unlike the way we have transmapped hair, only jointed...
I do have a question for you though... what if we set up a jointed "LOCK of hair" that you could build her hair from? What do you think of that?
...Just viewed it again myself a short while ago (have it bookmarked).
Again, my modelling skills are extremely limited at present (pretty much using primitives) and I have no appreciable experience with the Poser Hair room. Then there's doing all the texturing which includes SSS to give it depth. The fact they had to create a custom system/software just for modelling her hair makes it unique.
Basically, my strong point right now is morphing. Again, I wish Genesis had a "Cranium Height" adjustment or singular axis scaling of the head (like Gen4 had) which would make it easier to come closer to Merida's round head shape.
Expressions are another issue as a more realistic model like Genesis will produce facial lines that are not apparent or wanted in a more "toon based" character. I will have to play a bit more with both morph and surface detail settings to minimise these effects. This is also part of the reason I am using a combination of Genesis Sadie and Hitomi for the basic head model.
Of course on the new system I will have more precise control as I will not be fighting against the minimum OGL requirement which makes delicate slider adjustments almost impossible because of the sluggish response.
I guess the big challenge with Merida is she was originally created as a custom 3D CG mesh rather than two dimensional drawing so it's difficult to not try and simply replicate rather than interpret her.
Yah, it absolutely is your biggest challenge. I still say go for your interp rather than trying to replicate. I don't believe in replication for its own sake in such an endevour unless you're expressly auditioning for a job at Pixar.
I'll see about making a cranium morph. In the mean time, check out the Freepository. I just posted something you'll be interested in.
...update.
Well, received a response on the Garibaldi Hair thread and yes, it will work. Of course only in 4.5 or any other Renderman compliant engine, however It can be exported to other applications (becoming fibre mesh hair) and re-rigged for use.
...and hair created with it renders fast.
...a big expense considering recent events, but one that I know will pay itself back time and time again (and I was able to get the Annibelle dress for only 4$ more).
I think my MM buying is finished for the year, save for I might exchange Bolina Hair this week for something of equivalent value since I haven't even installed it yet.
Just a heads-up in case you're not aware, exported hair won't render as quickly. It's the RiCurves hair which has good speed. You render using 3Delight anyway though, don't you?
..pretty much.
However as I am moving to a much more powerful rig (with incredible cooling) now which is totally devoted to 3D CG work, long renders are not so much an issue anymore. With eight processor threads and 12 G fast tri channel RAM, I think it is capable of a lot that I will be throwing at it.
Unfortunately scenery is still pretty much Bryce's and Carrara's domain (have several Howie Farke's beautiful sets for the latter).
As long as I pose her in 4.5, I can then export the character as a .obj to either app without having to re rig the hair.
..OK dusting things off *koff* *koff*
Finally hav the new system running and a enough of my content/plugins installed to pick up where I left off...
...well sort of.
Also have lots of new stuff I never installed on the old system which gives me a wider palette of morphs to choose from.
So time to jump start the ol' thread with a couple new head shot examples.
The first two are a face on and 3/4 view and the third an experiment with to duplicate one of her many expressions.
Using 3D Dream's Bolina Hair which is a fairly decent match for that wild mane of hers while learning the ropes of the Garibaldi Express Hair System.
HOLY COW!!!!!!!!!!! Hey, you downloaded the original geometries or something????
I'm laying my money on a 100% KK hand dialed figure.
And such a Cutie too...