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Carrara Hair

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  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,145

    Philemo - would it be possible to have the polygons oriented so that they are perpendicular to the curvature of the joint with the preceding poly? That would work in a more general way, although still wouldn't solve it for single segment hairs.

  • Samuel S.Samuel S. Posts: 322
    Philemo said:

    I've uploaded a win64 version of the plugin. It can be found here

    I'm afraid OSX users will have to wait a few days for the OSX version.

    @PhilW : May I quote your description in the wiki page?

    Can you please advise more on CTS project and its vision? May be DAZ can also release some of plug-ins in CTS project like full Vertex Modeler or interfaces to add and improve it further? Even other authors can do the same for their free plug-ins etc.  I was looking at Modo's trial version and it seems like it has adapted a lot from Carrara and Hexagon. I was also thinking to write plug-ins for Carrara but it seems I lack lot of back ground information on graphics algorithms since my experience is in C# (C-Sharp) and C++ language for developing business applications which are lot easier to understand and write. Currently I am having so much fun with 3D Modeling and texturing with Carrara in my hobby time.

  • HeadwaxHeadwax Posts: 10,004

    page 2 waybacked

  • Samuel S.Samuel S. Posts: 322

    Thanks; I will try to locate it. I noticed that CTS project is for free utilities for Carrara but was not sure if all them will include source code or not and who can contribute towards development.

  • HeadwaxHeadwax Posts: 10,004
    I Samuel said:

    Thanks; I will try to locate it. I noticed that CTS project is for free utilities for Carrara but was not sure if all them will include source code or not and who can contribute towards development.

    I Samuel said:

    Thanks; I will try to locate it. I noticed that CTS project is for free utilities for Carrara but was not sure if all them will include source code or not and who can contribute towards development.

    Philemo is the man to ask.

    :)

    Here's those links https://web.archive.org/web/20170707053707/https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/181751/carrara-hair

    and page 2 https://web.archive.org/web/20170712001424/https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/181751/carrara-hair/p2

    I noticed if you have an ipad it will also make pdf's of threads as well

     

  • Philemo_CarraraPhilemo_Carrara Posts: 1,175
    PhilW said:

    Philemo - would it be possible to have the polygons oriented so that they are perpendicular to the curvature of the joint with the preceding poly? That would work in a more general way, although still wouldn't solve it for single segment hairs.

    It's a neat idea. I'll try that.

  • Philemo_CarraraPhilemo_Carrara Posts: 1,175

    Can you please advise more on CTS project and its vision? May be DAZ can also release some of plug-ins in CTS project like full Vertex Modeler or interfaces to add and improve it further? Even other authors can do the same for their free plug-ins etc.  I was looking at Modo's trial version and it seems like it has adapted a lot from Carrara and Hexagon. I was also thinking to write plug-ins for Carrara but it seems I lack lot of back ground information on graphics algorithms since my experience is in C# (C-Sharp) and C++ language for developing business applications which are lot easier to understand and write. Currently I am having so much fun with 3D Modeling and texturing with Carrara in my hobby time.

    Thanks; I will try to locate it. I noticed that CTS project is for free utilities for Carrara but was not sure if all them will include source code or not and who can contribute towards development.

    CTS project is my own very modest answer to DAZ lack of development on Carrara. It has two goals :

    • Provide tools that help making use of Carrara more efficient and productive (hence the "time saver" part)
    • help other developpers to start producing more plugins by giving examples (that's why it's open source) and a repository if necessary.

    I would like to do more, but I'm quite short on time (you know, work life, private life, sleep, that kind of things) so I go slowly. I have several projects at different stages of completion, but I tend to concentrate on short ones so that I can produce more than one per year :-). That unfinished projects have given me a lot of experience (both in do and don't) I would aloso like to share. I still have to find a way to combine all of it.

     

  • Philemo_CarraraPhilemo_Carrara Posts: 1,175

    The OSX 64 bits version (identical to the Win64 version with all the caveats described in this thread) is available (see link in my sig).

  • Samuel S.Samuel S. Posts: 322

    Thanks for plug-ins and now for OSX version of hair converter as well. This will be really helpful for folks who do not have Win 64 PCs.

  • SileneUKSileneUK Posts: 1,975
    Philemo said:

    Can you please advise more on CTS project and its vision? May be DAZ can also release some of plug-ins in CTS project like full Vertex Modeler or interfaces to add and improve it further? Even other authors can do the same for their free plug-ins etc.  I was looking at Modo's trial version and it seems like it has adapted a lot from Carrara and Hexagon. I was also thinking to write plug-ins for Carrara but it seems I lack lot of back ground information on graphics algorithms since my experience is in C# (C-Sharp) and C++ language for developing business applications which are lot easier to understand and write. Currently I am having so much fun with 3D Modeling and texturing with Carrara in my hobby time.

    Thanks; I will try to locate it. I noticed that CTS project is for free utilities for Carrara but was not sure if all them will include source code or not and who can contribute towards development.

    CTS project is my own very modest answer to DAZ lack of development on Carrara. It has two goals :

    • Provide tools that help making use of Carrara more efficient and productive (hence the "time saver" part)
    • help other developpers to start producing more plugins by giving examples (that's why it's open source) and a repository if necessary.

    I would like to do more, but I'm quite short on time (you know, work life, private life, sleep, that kind of things) so I go slowly. I have several projects at different stages of completion, but I tend to concentrate on short ones so that I can produce more than one per year :-). That unfinished projects have given me a lot of experience (both in do and don't) I would aloso like to share. I still have to find a way to combine all of it.

     

    Thank you for your faith in Carrara and those who love using it. Your programmes are a great motivator to keep modelling with Carrara!  yesheart Silene

  • HeadwaxHeadwax Posts: 10,004

    yes thanks Philemo!!!

    Q: anyone using the resulting hair from Philemo's plugin and taking it back into VWD?

     

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,182
    edited September 2017

    ​Sorry to be dense  How does one make it work?  The zip file contains a .dat, an .mcx, and a text file.  I don't understand how to use these to convert one of my custom Carrara dynamic hairstyles to a mesh.

    .

     

    PhilW said:

    Just a few notes on this plugin - I seem to have started something here!

    - It works from the number of hairs currently displayed, so you want this to be a relatively low percentage (I've been using 2-3% displayed on some recent conversions);

    - It produces flat strips of polygons for which you can define the width, one strip for each displayed hair - so by mapping the strips with multiple hair strands, you can get back to the original density of the hair, without needing the huge amount of polys that you would need to model each individual strand;

    - It generally seems to work well, but I have had the odd occasion that the model seems to miss parts of the original hair. Also it appears that you can only run it once - if you try again, it produces an empty model, so you need to close the scene and re-open in order to produce multiple models;

    - Starting with the same hair model, you can do things such as cut the hair, lengthen it, brush it, etc. and the model that is produced from the modified hair can be used as a morph target for the original hair - this is potentially really useful as you can produce a range of style and movement morphs for a given hair model.

    A huge Thank You to Philemo for this addition - it is really useful to have and I can't thank you enough!

     

    philemo files.JPG
    1132 x 428 - 61K
    Post edited by Diomede on
  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,145
    Diomede said:

    ​Sorry to be dense  How does one make it work?  The zip file contains a .dat, an .mcx, and a text file.  I don't understand how to use these to convert one of my custom Carrara dynamic hairstyles to a mesh.

    .

     

    PhilW said:

    Just a few notes on this plugin - I seem to have started something here!

    - It works from the number of hairs currently displayed, so you want this to be a relatively low percentage (I've been using 2-3% displayed on some recent conversions);

    - It produces flat strips of polygons for which you can define the width, one strip for each displayed hair - so by mapping the strips with multiple hair strands, you can get back to the original density of the hair, without needing the huge amount of polys that you would need to model each individual strand;

    - It generally seems to work well, but I have had the odd occasion that the model seems to miss parts of the original hair. Also it appears that you can only run it once - if you try again, it produces an empty model, so you need to close the scene and re-open in order to produce multiple models;

    - Starting with the same hair model, you can do things such as cut the hair, lengthen it, brush it, etc. and the model that is produced from the modified hair can be used as a morph target for the original hair - this is potentially really useful as you can produce a range of style and movement morphs for a given hair model.

    A huge Thank You to Philemo for this addition - it is really useful to have and I can't thank you enough!

     

    Copy those files to your Program Files/Daz 3D/Carrara 8.5/Extensions folder.  When you open Carrara, select a Carrara hair model in your scene and you will see a menu option Edit/Philemo/Convert Hair to Polygons.  I suggest setting the display percentage to only 1-2%, particularly while you are just testing it out, if you leave it at 100% and have a "heavy" hair model, you are going to produce an unmanagable mesh.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,182

    Thanks, Phil.

  • Philemo_CarraraPhilemo_Carrara Posts: 1,175
    Phil answered before I could. I just wanted to add that I plan to resume working on this plug-in when my current project is finished, probably by mid October.
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,182
    edited September 2017

    Really cool.  smiley

     

    Just for a test, I loaded and converted the razor cut hair for M4 from Naomi.  Works like a charm.  Still getting a grasp on the uv system.  Perfect for getting a non-photoreal look to match a photoreal look for subsequent composite.  Although, based on my first NPR test, the normals may be flipped (didn't bother to check yet - was too excited).

     

    Great work, Philemo.

     

     

    jj08 m4 dynamic hair real render.jpg
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    jj02 philemo test 2.JPG
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    jj05 toon filter.jpg
    640 x 480 - 23K
    jj09 npr.jpg
    640 x 480 - 20K
    Post edited by Diomede on
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,182

    Yes - the NPR render shows through by flipping the normals.  yes

    jj10 flip normals.jpg
    640 x 480 - 19K
  • JonstarkJonstark Posts: 2,738
    edited September 2017

    I theorize that this nifty little plugin would make Carrara the absolute best/easiest/fasted program to create conforming hair models with, and I wonder if eventually content creators will realize this. 

    Every so often in the Commons you'll see a poster who has stumbled across one of the Carrara hair products posting 'wow this is great hair, how do I use it in Studio?'.  It used to be, the only answer was 'sorry, you can't'.  But thanks to this little plugin now theoretically anyone can quickly grow out some hair on a model, brush it and cut it into any style they like quickly and easily, then use the plugin to make it into mesh that could be used in any other program. 

    I don't know the workflow for how the many hair creators come up with their hairstyles currently (most of which don't hold a candle to Carrara hair anyway) but I picture them working in some vertex modeler for hours.  But now it could be much quicker/easier to create in Carrara, just grow it, brush it, cut it, use Philemo's plugin and voila, ready to go.  On and want morphs?  Super easy, just load the hair back up, brush the hair into a different style  use the plugin again, now you've got a morph target as the hair would still have the same number of verts and polys.  

    This is just speculation on my part, as I haven't had the time to actually *do* it yet and test this out, but it seems like this would be a dream workflow for any hair content creator

    Heck, maybe we should keep it a secret :)  And all of sudden the Daz store suddenly starts getting flooded with new highly-realistic hair products from Carrara forum members...  laugh

    Post edited by Jonstark on
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,182
    edited September 2017

    Easy to get addicted.  It took me less than hour of installing for the first time to create a custom hair cap to fit a morphed G8M I am setting up (based on Misty's preset) and then creating a custom hair mesh.  With a little experimentation, I predict PhilW, SileneUK, and some of the other hair modelers will be able to do amazing things.

     

    Hair Cap for receding hairline man

     

    Carrara hair with default shader

    Converted to mesh with Philemo's plugin

    Mesh with a simple dark texture

     

    kk02 carrara dfault hair.jpg
    640 x 640 - 22K
    kk01 hair cap that fits snidevillain.JPG
    1920 x 969 - 169K
    kk08 model and uvmap room.JPG
    1670 x 996 - 182K
    kk09 hair render.jpg
    640 x 640 - 23K
    Post edited by Diomede on
  • MarkIsSleepyMarkIsSleepy Posts: 1,496
    edited September 2017

    Nice. I keep meaning to play with this but just haven't had time.

    There was a tutorial recently on cgcookie about using Blender's particle hair to create hair textures and I bet you could do the exact same thing in Carrara.

    I think the video is only accessible if you are a paying member, but the basic process was to create a single strip of polygons and create hair growing straight down from that. You drape that and then set up the camera so you are looking at the hair basically flat on. Then render it with alpha and you have an instant hair texture to apply to your poly hair! When I get home tonight I'll do one real quickly and post some screenshots to make the process a bit more clear.

    Post edited by MarkIsSleepy on
  • Philemo_CarraraPhilemo_Carrara Posts: 1,175
    UV is per strand, from the left side of the root to the right side of the top.
  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,145
    Jonstark said:

    I theorize that this nifty little plugin would make Carrara the absolute best/easiest/fasted program to create conforming hair models with, and I wonder if eventually content creators will realize this. 

    Every so often in the Commons you'll see a poster who has stumbled across one of the Carrara hair products posting 'wow this is great hair, how do I use it in Studio?'.  It used to be, the only answer was 'sorry, you can't'.  But thanks to this little plugin now theoretically anyone can quickly grow out some hair on a model, brush it and cut it into any style they like quickly and easily, then use the plugin to make it into mesh that could be used in any other program. 

    I don't know the workflow for how the many hair creators come up with their hairstyles currently (most of which don't hold a candle to Carrara hair anyway) but I picture them working in some vertex modeler for hours.  But now it could be much quicker/easier to create in Carrara, just grow it, brush it, cut it, use Philemo's plugin and voila, ready to go.  On and want morphs?  Super easy, just load the hair back up, brush the hair into a different style  use the plugin again, now you've got a morph target as the hair would still have the same number of verts and polys.  

    This is just speculation on my part, as I haven't had the time to actually *do* it yet and test this out, but it seems like this would be a dream workflow for any hair content creator

    Heck, maybe we should keep it a secret :)  And all of sudden the Daz store suddenly starts getting flooded with new highly-realistic hair products from Carrara forum members...  laugh

    I have actually tried making polygon versions of some of my hairs with this but hit an issue that sometimes the width of the polygon strip collapses to nothing. I'm not complaining - it was always included as a bonus and "as is", but if this could be addressed, then it would be a great tool to develop polygon hairs with. But I don't want to pressure Philemo, I am already enormously impressed and grateful for everything he has achieved so far.

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,145

    Diomede - that bears a resemblance to Peter Cushing.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,182
    edited September 2017
    PhilW said:

    Diomede - that bears a resemblance to Peter Cushing.

     

     

    Thanks.  That made my day. 

    I discuss what was going for here.  https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/2820726/#Comment_2820726

     

    My plan will be to try to create an FBM for a custom melodramatic villain character for G8M, and then create some conforming clothes for the ba$t@ard.  Here are some classic villains.  Just when I thought the aqualine nose was standard, Voldomort has no nose.  Tall and thin?  No, Boris from Rocky and Bullwinkle is short and fat.  However, I kind of feel inspired by Basel Rathbone and Peter Cushing, so a tall and thin villain is the order of the day - subject to my changing whims.

    .

     

     

    Post edited by Diomede on
  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,145

    I thought it might be, but good to know! Of course he also played the good guy a lot, particularly as Van Helsing against Christopher Lee's Dracula - I used to love those films, corny as they probably appear these days!

  • MarkIsSleepyMarkIsSleepy Posts: 1,496
    edited September 2017

    BTW, in case anyone is curious here's what I meant about using Carrara Dynamic Hair to create hair textures for polygon hair.

    I basically just set up the hair the way I wanted it, hanging straight down from a strip of polygons made in the vertex editor, then framed that hair and rendered it. Instant hair texture with no need to buy texture resources or use photos to try and make your own.

    HairTextureExample.jpg
    1000 x 1000 - 150K
    Post edited by MarkIsSleepy on
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,182
    edited September 2017

    That is great, Mark.  I would also recommend rendering the exact same drape with a white shader applied to the strand hair.  That way you can get the fringe end for transmap and have it match your texture map.  Reaching way back to the Poser 5 days, there is an artist named Kozaburo who made some amazing prop hair that in many ways still stands up to Daz Studio 4.9 hair.  Here is an example of matching texture maps and transmaps from a Kozaburo prop hair.  

    nn01 kozaburo hair maps.JPG
    401 x 131 - 19K
    Post edited by Diomede on
  • StezzaStezza Posts: 8,118

    yes

    sweet

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,182
    edited September 2017

    I am loving the Philemo hair-to-mesh plugin.  For some of my projects, I enjoy rendering non-photoreal, toon, and photoreal renders, and then compositing some of the elements.  One challenge was that Carrara's dynamic hair did not perform well in the NPR renderer or the toon renderer.  With Philemo's plugin, I can create or use a dynamc hair, brush or drape it for gravity or wind, and then generate a matching (approximate) polygon mesh.  This approximate mesh is a MUCH better match when the NPR and photoreal renders are being matched.

     

    Thank you, Phlemo!

    Post edited by Diomede on
  • rk66rk66 Posts: 441

    Kozaburo Hair: http://digitalbabes.jp/

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