Has Aiko been fixed since A3?
daniel_6cc2860d07
Posts: 0
I've bought some items from Daz3D awhile back in 2012, but finally got around to installing everything a couple of weeks ago, and of course with the latest release of Daz3D.
Aiko 3 came with the package and I've noticed something about the model that ruins a good render. There are lots of noise/bumps on parts of her face that are clearly visible. So I looked at the model in wireframe mode and noticed several clusters of triangles that appear to be the control points of those parts of the face. I've also exported Aiko 3 and ran her under other 3D applications to see if that issue persists, and the results are the same. Trying to smooth it out doesn't help (makes it worse).
My concern here is whether or not the Aiko mesh in either Aiko 4 or 5 has been fixed and would like to know if anyone can confirm this (perhaps post a screen shot of the face mesh). I wouldn't mind paying for the upgrade, but I don't want to end up with the same issue as Aiko 3.
Thanks!
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Aiko 5 is a character shape for Genesis and not a stand alone figure. Genesis is subdivided in DS45 automatically
You can use Aiko3 in DS45 and apply a smoothing modifier to her to smooth the mesh.
I personally do not agree with your assessment of Aiko3 as I have used her the most. I am curios to see from your own renders how it is ruined from your point of view by using her. Having used her as long as I have I might be able to offer some advice beyond what I already have.
And Aiko 4 is a morph of V4, which is a completely different mesh to the Gen 3 series, so you only have to check the UV map for V4
You can find a uv map for V4, with seam guides here
http://www.snowsultan.com/3.html
Thanks.
I tried the modifier and nothing happens. Simply firing up Aiko 3, and doing a quick render will reveal the artifacts which causes an acne-like look to her skin, and always on the areas where those triangles meet with quads.
I looked at the Genesis wire and it's nicely modeled, no triangles creating rough surfaces. If Aiko 5 is just a shape for Genesis, then chances are it's not suffering from A3 issues, I think, though I hope someone can post a screen of that.
The attached is a look at a simple base rendered A3 showing where the problems exist, and is apparent in every 3D app I've plugged her into including Daz.
If you know any tricks to help with A3, I would like to read them.
Personally is see no issue with it. A little imperfection is common in real people. Simplest solution, apply a character map to her. If the character preset does not apply a bump map then apply one from a different set. All Gen3 characters can share skin maps since they were built from the same mesh with the same UV. I really doubt you're going to notice the minor imperfections once you apply a character map and adjust your lights and spec to make it more like skin.
This issue has irritated me a bit as well. Sure, imperfections are great, but when added deliberately, not when they carry over to every character created from a base model.
A4 and the various Aiko shapes for Genesis don't have this problem. [Be warned, though, A5 is not a proper counterpart to Hiro anymore, she's gone all out Aiko!Realistic morph this time around with no additional base head shape options.]
Here's a similar angle render on Aiko 5.
Also, the Aiko 3 and 4 shapes are available for genesis, and they also use the genesis mesh without those issues. Second render is Aiko 3 shape.
This should answer your original question. Genesis with Aiko 3 shape left, Aiko 3 on right with two levels and subdivision applied. I would imagine your issues with A3 wouldn't be apparent unless you're rendering head close ups.
This explains why transferring Gen3 shapes with GenX has had less than stellar results for me. I've wondered "why am I getting these bumpy results", but apparently, that's just how Aiko 3 rolls.
If you are looking for a mirror smooth surface...not going to happen. I've seen surface 'flaws' like that on models from just about every modelling app around and at every price level imaginable. And what may appear 'flawless' in one app, with a specific renderer, with a certain material setup and lighting, can, and often does, look like pure manure in something else.
Also, with no texture maps and no actual lights (think of the light on the camera as the light/flash on the camera that takes a driver's license picture...a harsh, cruel, unforgiving light that emphasises any minor imperfections) in the scene, any little problem will, inevitably be highlighted. Also, unless you are rendering 10k x 10k final renders at insane 'quality' levels or real tight close ups and not compressing them to jpg (tif, bmp or some lossless format), you will lose most if not all of that..and a portion of the detail too.
Lindsey, which skin is that on your Genesis Aiko, that's pretty. :)
It's the base Aiko 4 texture that I found it in the DAZ Studio Library folder People>Aiko 4>Texture>Anime.
The DIM installer is Aiko 4 Base StudioCF (product ID 5980).
It's the base Aiko 4 texture that I found it in the DAZ Studio Library folder People>Aiko 4>Texture>Anime.
The DIM installer is Aiko 4 Base StudioCF (product ID 5980).
Ah, thank you! Aiko 4's skin looks very good on A3 (maybe better than it does on A4. Seeing this, I went looking at the Aiko 4 base promos, since I actually don't have the A4 base, just the genesis shapes.) It's quite nice.
well,just clean the mesh in your 3D app of choice.
simple like that.
please check this Aiko3 close up done in Maxwell Render 2 years ago...
the smaller one done in Modo,can you see such artifacts?
Thanks for the input everyone. While I do understand that were tricks we can pull off to hide the issues I speak of, I don't think we should have to hide it with tricks.
For my projects I am not using any kind of skin texture (don't want to), I wanted a smooth artificial look, and nothing close to realistic which can help conceal the roughness. And yes, there will be close ups of the face as well which kinda made it important for me.
When I bought some bundled pack on Daz in 2012, it included "Aiko 3 SP", is this different than just "Aiko 3"?
I believe Aiko 3 SP is a shape to allow Aiko 3 to fit clothing built for Stephanie Petite. See "what's included & features" for this product, I believe that is what you are speaking of:
http://www.daz3d.com/aiko-3-0-morphs-and-maps
So that probably is not the solution you are looking for, but as Lindsey's renders probably best show, the answer to the essential question "has Aiko been fixed since A3" is yes, A4 and A5 don't have the issue. (and neither does the A3 iconic shape created for genesis). :)
I believe Aiko 3 SP is a morph to allow Aiko 3 to fit clothing built for Stephanie Petite. See "what's included & features" for this product, I believe that is what you are speaking of:
http://www.daz3d.com/aiko-3-0-morphs-and-maps
So that probably is not the solution you are looking for, but as Lindsey's renders probably best show, the answer to the essential question "has Aiko been fixed since A3" is yes, A4 and A5 don't have the issue. (and neither does the A3 iconic shape created for genesis). :)
If A5 is a morph/shape for Genesis, couldn't I just buy Genesis Evolution and create my own anime look from the settings available? Or is there more to it than that?
I'm still a bit new to Daz, but the content seem to be all over the place.
Yes, you could, although in my experience, the Evolution morphs tend to work best for tweaking... as in start from some morph (like A5, or V5, or The Freak, or whatever) and then use the Evolution morph to adjust the features to your liking. They have a lot of possibility, but can be a little tougher for broad overall changes to the shape style that really look good or the way you want. That's been my experience anyway. But Genesis overall as a platform to build on is wonderful, adding morphs and packages as you go along. You could start with the evolution, and see how you go, and possibly add A5 or the A3 legacy shapes
http://www.daz3d.com/a3-and-h3-shapes-for-genesis
Also, if it's within your budget, many people (including me) would recommend this as a genesis starting point:
http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-michael-victoria-combo-bundle
It gives you all of the evolution packages together (including muscularity and expressions), plus M5 and V5. For anime purposes, you might then add one of the Aiko genesis shapes, or Hitomi.
http://www.daz3d.com/hitomi-3d-anime-girl-for-genesis
http://www.daz3d.com/a4-and-h4-for-genesis
(If you do this, also get a PC membership, because the resulting discount on the bundle will be greater than the price of the membership, and will then also let you get the discount on other DAZ base shape packages - although not on Hitomi, but with luck she'll be on sale at some point this month).
Alternatively, if you want to try just the Evolution Bundle to start, then consider the Genesis Starter Bundle
http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-starter-bundle
which is only a few dollars more than Evolution, and gives you that package plus a couple outfits and the Troll.
If money were no object, I'd absolutely say the V5/M5 combo above to max out your genesis shaping powers, and then add anime bundles like the Hiro 5 bundle and the Aiko 5 bundle for anime content.
http://www.daz3d.com/hiro-5-pro-bundle
http://www.daz3d.com/aiko-5-pro-bundle
(hopefully that's not overwhelming... :) )
I'm sorry, I'm just not seeing the problem. This is Aiko 3 with no lighting, no subdividsion, basically "out of the box".
Edit: Forgot to mention: This is in DAZ Studion 4.5.
Ok, I see it now. Loaded up in Poser 9, the first image was done with only one infinite light, positioned in front and above the figure. The second image is the exact same scene, same light, the only change I made was to choose Raytraced shadows for the light over depth mapped shadows. The third image shows my render settings.
Along those same lines, I really like to start with one of the DAZ shapes (like v4, a4, M5, or h4) for Genesis and then adjust them to make unique characters using Evolution morphs and this free pack from sharecg:
http://www.sharecg.com/v/58198/gallery/21/DAZ-Studio/DieTryings-182-V4-Morphs-for-Genesis
The sharecg pack is fun because it's free and it includes some different options than the Evolution pack, especially when it comes to face shapes.
It's nice because I get the benefits of using Genesis (a nice smooth base mesh, ability to mix and match characters, smoothing and collision if you are using it in DAZ 4 & up) but I can still build on a shape similar to those iconic generation four shapes I used to use so much.
Sure you can try to make your own character that looks like aiko with various morphs out there, but really the Aiko shapes for genesis are faster and cheaper (because I think you would need at least a few different pack, and they add up). Also the premade shapes give you a good result guaranteed(if you like how it looks). While I have many of the morph packs mentioned, I would argue recreating Aiko with them would be difficult, or the end result wouldn't truly capture the beauty of Aiko. But you certainly can make unique characters and toons using the morph packs. DieTryings morphs are very helpful and free so I reccomend those. I just don't see most being able to pull an Aiko out of it(but maybe I don't have enough patience!).
That is unoffically a challenge for all you out there :) Dial spin us an Aiko for Genesis that doesn't use any of the toon shapes sold on the various markets. Could be fun :)
Yeah, an interesting challenge! Would take some patience, and for me whenever I do something that broadly changes a shape with evolution, I tweak forever getting something right, and it looks ok in tests, and then I back away and render it in a scene, and I look at it again and it's just not close to where I thought it was. When I consider how to revise whatever problem arises, it's not just one or a couple morphs that will fix it, it's like adjust one piece and then readjust everything else to compensate. It's that cycle again and again.
So that's what the base morphs do so well, give you a solid starting point figure style. :)
Thanks for all the input.
I just bought Aiko 5, but I'm finding myself to be disappointed in the lack of options for shaping eyes, nose, lips and body in that there aren't any. Am I missing something here?
I mean, A5 only looks like a slightly more attractive Genesis, but with a significant amount of less options than Aiko 3.
Ahh, but you see she's a Genesis figure and one thing you need to learn about Genesis is that it's pretty much fully compatible with anything and everything Genesis. One of the reasons they might come with fewer options is because those options are already available via other morph packs.
In basic terms, while you might not get much out-of-the-box functionality with a single model, you can combine aspects of other figures and morphs into the same character. A little Hitomi, for example, or a little Victoria. Here's an example I cooked up quickly showing how you can combine morphs. The more morphs you have for Genesis, the more combinations you can splice together for your characters.
I highly recommend looking at the Genesis evolution morphs. They'll give you a huge scope for customization and are relatively cheap to pick up.
Genesis is a Morph driven figure. That said buying one character does not give you all the morphs that are needed to get the tweaks we all like to do to our figures. You will need morph Packs for Genesis for all of that. I suggest these as starting points...
http://www.daz3d.com/people/morphs/genesis-evolution-morph-bundle
http://www.daz3d.com/people/morphs/genesis-evolution-muscularity
I also recommend you get some other Shapes (Figures) as they can also be Dialed in to create new characters...
http://www.daz3d.com/gen-4-iconic-shapes-for-genesis
http://www.daz3d.com/stephanie-4-for-genesis and
http://www.daz3d.com/v4-and-m4-shapes-for-genesis
These would give you a great starting place for making almost any Human Character you need by just dialing them to your liking.
I dont buy expressions very often but this is good - http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-evolution-expressions
The mixing of expressions can be rather funny.
Anyone have any suggested settings for Aiko 5 or Genesis to remove the muscle definition? I load up Aiko 5, but she looks like a body builder, and not so much the cleaner thinner Anime look I'm going for.
A5 with nothing else dialed in is A5.
You can dial in the A3 shape or the A4 shape if you own those.
Thanks, but I only have A3 and A5, I wasn't so sure about A4 after discovering the A3 issue.
Now what do you mean dial in A3 shape? I don't see any options to dial in A3 shapes when I use A5.
However, I did manage to solve my issue with A5's muscle definition. I applied a smoothing modifier and it pretty much removed those details I did not want, and overall it looks much much closer to A3 now.