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(OT) Spectacular Image from NASA

wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
edited December 1969 in The Commons

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/1303/volcano_reitze_1280.jpg

I was just told scientists have not the first clue how volcanic eruptions create lightning...

Comments

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    I think that's a case of 'overthinking' things...the most logical, seems to be that's not lightning...it's static. (yeah same thing, really...but think about it...you've got all these conductive particles moving at high speed...what do think is going to happen?)

  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 11,504
    edited March 2013

    Cool pictures! :)

    But having been involved in the lightning research arena at a NASA facility for a while* I do know that they have ideas about volcanic lightning. No clear idea of all the processes involved, and certainly not as complete ideas as about cloud lightning (which are themselves still debated), but the basic theories are there.

    Googling "volcanic lightning" gives this result right off the bat.
    http://geology.com/articles/volcanic-lightning/

    *My involvement was at the Kennedy Space Center between 1974 and 1979. Worked with Dr. Philip Kreider, Dr. Elmer Magaziner, and Dr. Kasemir
    http://www-pao.ksc.nasa.gov/kscpao/nasafact/lightningres.htm
    http://www.techbriefs.com/index.php?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=Briefs/Apr98/KSC11785.html
    http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/1520-0477(1976)057<1214:TTRIP>2.0.CO;2

    Post edited by LeatherGryphon on
  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    Thanks, Guys. I was just repeating what I was told which doesn't make it good information :)

  • jerriecanjerriecan Posts: 470
    edited December 1969

    Very cool pic - thanks for the share! :)

  • ByrdieByrdie Posts: 1,783
    edited December 1969

    Still pretty amazing. Btw, just where is this particular volcano?

  • McGyverMcGyver Posts: 7,050
    edited March 2013

    I saw something similar to that happen after my dog ate a whole bag of burritos... I'm not sure if the lightning was from static or not, but the scorch marks on the wall were fantastic.

    Cool picture though.

    Post edited by McGyver on
  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 11,504
    edited March 2013

    lordvicore said:
    I saw something similar to that happen after my dog ate a whole bag of burritos... I'm not sure if the lightning was from static or not, but the scorch marks on the wall were fantastic....

    So is that what is meant by ash fallout?

    Post edited by LeatherGryphon on
  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    lordvicore said:
    I saw something similar to that happen after my dog ate a whole bag of burritos... I'm not sure if the lightning was from static or not, but the scorch marks on the wall were fantastic.

    Cool picture though.

    Dammit...your posts should come with a warning label. I was barely...just barely...able to get the sip of coffee down, instead of all over my monitor.

  • cridgitcridgit Posts: 1,757
    edited May 2022

    Redacted

    Post edited by cridgit on
  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 11,504
    edited March 2013

    cridgit said:
    ...

    I know Elemer Magaziner and have been trying to get in touch with him for a few years now. Is he still around or do you have contact with him? A lovely man :-)

    No, sorry. That was over 35 years ago. I did try to look him up on the Internet a couple of years ago and I think I found him as a major player in a research company, but never contacted him.

    He probably wouldn't remember me. I was running the computer center in the Special Measurement Division at the Launch Control Center at KSC. He was a visiting scientist for the TRIP program and specified the mathematics for an algorithm to draw electric field gradient topology maps based on ground level EF measurements of 25 sensors maintained around Cape Canaveral. I implemented his alogorithm in FORTRAN and wrote the drivers and graphics software in assembler to plot the field maps. First on an electrostatic printer, then eventually on a Tektronic Graphic storage display, and video recording disk. The goal was to make movies of the dynamic electric field on the video disk then play them back to TV monitors.

    To do this we had a team of technicians that installed and maintained electric field meters in manicured 50 foot diameter circles in the swamp around the space center. The EF-meters had power cables from nearby facilities and dedicated data wires that fed back miles through the swamp to the 2nd floor south-west corner of the Launch Control Center where we measured and recorded the electric field from all 25 sensors 50 times a second on 1" wide analog data tapes. Then after a storm was over we played the analog tapes into the computer one frame at time, crunched for about one minute to make a single field topology map, then output the map to the storage display, and fed the display to a video converter box which converted the displayed vector storage image to a raster scan TV image so it could be recorded on one track of the video disk recorder. Then we turned the crank on the recorder to advance the recording head one track, then started calculating the next frame of the movie.

    After a movie was finished (hours of turning the crank every minute) we could play the recorded image back by turning the recorder's crank at whatever speed we wanted the movie to run at. Super neat toys in a multi-million dollar laboratory but we still had to hand crank the video recorder. 8-o But it was high tech at the time and fun.

    Eventually we could process snapshots of the electric field and send real-time snapshots digitally to the KSC weather department, who used the information to assess possibility of lightning during a launch. (PS: the image sent to the weather department was sent a couple miles over a dedicated 96Kb phone line that needed modems about the size of a breadbox at each end and they needed to be recalibrated every few weeks. Again, high-tech at the time. 8-s

    Post edited by LeatherGryphon on
  • robkelkrobkelk Posts: 3,259
    edited March 2013

    Byrdie said:
    Still pretty amazing. Btw, just where is this particular volcano?

    Sakurajima, in southern Japan.

    Credit, copyright, and information page for the photo

    Post edited by robkelk on
  • Miss BMiss B Posts: 3,071
    edited December 1969

    mjc1016 said:
    lordvicore said:
    I saw something similar to that happen after my dog ate a whole bag of burritos... I'm not sure if the lightning was from static or not, but the scorch marks on the wall were fantastic.

    Cool picture though.


    Dammit...your posts should come with a warning label. I was barely...just barely...able to get the sip of coffee down, instead of all over my monitor.
    You were lucky, I just gave my monitor an iced tea bath. ~ROFLMAO~
  • Miss BMiss B Posts: 3,071
    edited March 2013

    wancow said:
    http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/1303/volcano_reitze_1280.jpg

    I was just told scientists have not the first clue how volcanic eruptions create lightning...


    OK, now that would be a very cool render. Anybody up for trying it?

    why did everyone just turn around and look at me?

    Post edited by Miss B on
  • cridgitcridgit Posts: 1,757
    edited May 2022

    Redacted

    Post edited by cridgit on
  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 11,504
    edited March 2013

    cridgit said:
    LeatherGryphon said:

    cridgit said:
    ...

    I know Elemer Magaziner and have been trying to get in touch with him for a few years now. Is he still around or do you have contact with him? A lovely man :-)

    No, sorry. That was over 35 years ago. I did try to look him up on the Internet a couple of years ago and I think I found him as a major player in a research company, but never contacted him.

    ... snip ...



    Yeah he told me about that story. I believe the team was assembled after lightning struck during a launch with no storm for 50 miles around, and there were only a few people around at the time who had any idea how that could have happened. Its great to meet someone else involved in the project.

    I met him over 10 years ago in Paris and we kept contact for some time - he was living in Sedona then - but after I started globetrotting I lost contact. Brilliant guy.

    Anyways, back to the here and now ... lightning and rendering :-)

    Yes, I remember him as a pleasant, smart, person. I had known programming from working in the computer center at my college (Fla. Inst. of Tech.) but it was Dr. Magaziner who told me one afternoon in my lab at KSC, about structured programming (in FORTRAN no less!) Once I had groked the concept of structured programming, my confidence, reliability and productivity improved dramatically. That one afternoon of discussion with him opened my eyes and gave me an amazing advantage for the rest of my career.

    Post edited by LeatherGryphon on
  • RarethRareth Posts: 1,462
    edited December 1969

    Miss B said:
    wancow said:
    http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/1303/volcano_reitze_1280.jpg

    I was just told scientists have not the first clue how volcanic eruptions create lightning...


    OK, now that would be a very cool render. Anybody up for trying it?

    why did everyone just turn around and look at me?


    hmmm not sure about the lightning but the rest... might be doable in Bryce.

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